PROPOSED NEW FORUM RULES

[SaintPav]

BFUSA, great work and appreciate your effort in trying to clean this place up.

However, I do not agree with your defenition of baiting.

Under the new rules, I can get an offical warning for calling Dragit a waffle head muppet which is clearly in jest but a troll like Citywest can bait the whole forum by starting inane posts by claiming that Roo is the worst captain ever, for example It's pretty obvious to everyone that Citywest is baiting everyone and I think something should be done about it.

It doesn't make sense.

[GrumpyOne]

Everyone has different tolerance levels obviously, but it would get mighty boring if all banter was outlawed… and I think a lot of people come here for that stuff over bigfooty. This isn't a place of pure serious football discussion, it's also a place for fun isn't it?

It seems to me that we are in danger of turning down the kitchen temperature below freezing.

If some thin skinned people can't stand some moderate amount of heat, perhaps an internet forum is not for them.

The problem with catch-all rules like this is that at sometime someone in authority will use those rules to fulfil an undesirable personal objective.

It's happened on here before.

[dragit]

how very dare you pav…

i hereby challenge you to a duel good chap.

[SaintPav]

how very dare you pav…

i hereby challenge you to a duel good chap.

Why would I bother wasting my time with an overrated flimsy batter based cake. You can't even make it on the second last shelf in Safeway.

[maverick]

Everyone has different tolerance levels obviously, but it would get mighty boring if all banter was outlawed… and I think a lot of people come here for that stuff over bigfooty. This isn't a place of pure serious football discussion, it's also a place for fun isn't it?

It seems to me that we are in danger of turning down the kitchen temperature below freezing.

If some thin skinned people can't stand some moderate amount of heat, perhaps an internet forum is not for them.

The problem with catch-all rules like this is that at sometime someone in authority will use those rules to fulfil an undesirable personal objective.

It's happened on here before.

Completely agree.

[stinger]

Everyone has different tolerance levels obviously, but it would get mighty boring if all banter was outlawed… and I think a lot of people come here for that stuff over bigfooty. This isn't a place of pure serious football discussion, it's also a place for fun isn't it?

It seems to me that we are in danger of turning down the kitchen temperature below freezing.

If some thin skinned people can't stand some moderate amount of heat, perhaps an internet forum is not for them.

The problem with catch-all rules like this is that at sometime someone in authority will use those rules to fulfil an undesirable personal objective.

It's happened on here before.

Completely agree.

i don't....this place is far more enjoyable today than it was at anytime in the past three or four years......thanks to the efforts of the now current mods.....moderate amount of heat...???. that has to be some sort of sick joke....


you really have to laugh...those that yelled loudest for the rules to be enforced and for the forum to be better moderated are now complaining .... meanwhile...i'm more than happy and i fully intend to comply with the now enforced rules and will report any post that doesn't......and i make no apologies for that....

[markp]

Everyone has different tolerance levels obviously, but it would get mighty boring if all banter was outlawed… and I think a lot of people come here for that stuff over bigfooty. This isn't a place of pure serious football discussion, it's also a place for fun isn't it?

It seems to me that we are in danger of turning down the kitchen temperature below freezing.

If some thin skinned people can't stand some moderate amount of heat, perhaps an internet forum is not for them.

The problem with catch-all rules like this is that at sometime someone in authority will use those rules to fulfil an undesirable personal objective.

It's happened on here before.

Completely agree.

It takes 3 official warnings in 7 days to earn you a one month ban... which means if you feel the need you can call dragit a waffle headed muppet twice a week and still be ok.

[GrumpyOne]

Got any of that cake mix left, Pav?

[SaintPav]

It takes 3 official warnings in 7 days to earn you a one month ban... which means if you feel the need you can call dragit a waffle headed muppet twice a week and still be ok.

That's good to know but trolls like CW get no warning at all.

[saintbrat]

how very dare you pav…

i hereby challenge you to a duel good chap.

this one?

or this one

[markp]

It takes 3 official warnings in 7 days to earn you a one month ban... which means if you feel the need you can call dragit a waffle headed muppet twice a week and still be ok.

That's good to know but trolls like CW get no warning at all.

I think genuine trolls are probably covered under the moderating section 'zero tolerance...'

Problem is it's often a fine line between identifying a troll and someone who's just an idiot.... "sack the coach!!".

[dragit]

i don't....this place is far more enjoyable today than it was at anytime in the past three or four years......thanks to the efforts of the now current mods.....moderate amount of heat...???. that has to be some sort of sick joke....


you really have to laugh...those that yelled loudest for the rules to be enforced and for the forum to be better moderated are now complaining .... meanwhile...i'm more than happy and i fully intend to comply with the now enforced rules and will report any post that doesn't......and i make no apologies for that....

You know what I find offensive… is someone rolling their eyes at me, once is rude, 5 times in a single reply is just purely inciting. It really is the epitome of disrespect.

[plugger66]

I have always been puzzled at how anonymous individuals can be bullied by another, also anonymous. Many claim to have been of course so I guess somehow that feeling has been created by one of the parties. I would also argue that baiting, badgering and a belligerent manner are legitimate tools of argument, usually used to distract the other party from their stronger position. More fool them if they fall for it. Whilst as an occasional poster but constant reader I find the animosity between certain members here tiresome it is to be expected as after all perhaps the only thing many of us share with our fellow posters is the love of the club. I read this forum for the insights those more local to the team might share, for the laughs and for the petty jealousies that run through many of the threads. It is better than reality TV. So too many rules will stifle true expression. There should be as few as possible and better moderation of the most important rule in any on line forum- the prohibition on hijacking of threads.

I tend to agree, I guess a lot comes down to how the mods interpret things…

I liken a lot of the banter (and insults) to what friends would throw around to one another…

Might be just me but… terms such as cabbage, munter, plonker, clown, surrender-eating-cheese-monkey, muppet, spanker etc… although they could be taken as insults, I would hate to see these things edited, removed or given warnings over.

Everyone has different tolerance levels obviously, but it would get mighty boring if all banter was outlawed… and I think a lot of people come here for that stuff over bigfooty. This isn't a place of pure serious football discussion, it's also a place for fun isn't it?

100% agree. We dont have to be exactly like other footy forums. Fun is surely one the things we come on here for. If you cant laugh at yourselves then you have issues. Please dont make this place boring and so politically correct we struggle to even have a conversation. Lets face it if the rules go to the strict letter of the law then nearly every thread would be closed down and warnings issued. Even terms like d**khead, moron and numpty mean bugger all. by all means stop the crap on here that a few including me are part of but dont wreck the place on banter, minor insults and fun sending each other up.

[plugger66]

It seems to me that we are in danger of turning down the kitchen temperature below freezing.

If some thin skinned people can't stand some moderate amount of heat, perhaps an internet forum is not for them.

The problem with catch-all rules like this is that at sometime someone in authority will use those rules to fulfil an undesirable personal objective.

It's happened on here before.

Completely agree.

i don't....this place is far more enjoyable today than it was at anytime in the past three or four years......thanks to the efforts of the now current mods.....moderate amount of heat...???. that has to be some sort of sick joke....


you really have to laugh...those that yelled loudest for the rules to be enforced and for the forum to be better moderated are now complaining .... meanwhile...i'm more than happy and i fully intend to comply with the now enforced rules and will report any post that doesn't......and i make no apologies for that....

This is a pefect example of having a go at people and also of a person who fails to get a grasp of humour and of everyday life. And also acting like a 5 year old threatening people that he will report any post that breaks the rules. well I think this breaks the rules. The rule of common sense.

Surely the last thing this place needs is people dobbing in people all the time because like previously mentioned probably 90% of people break the rules but only thin skinned people will play dobbing games.

[stinger]

i don't....this place is far more enjoyable today than it was at anytime in the past three or four years......thanks to the efforts of the now current mods.....moderate amount of heat...???. that has to be some sort of sick joke....


you really have to laugh...those that yelled loudest for the rules to be enforced and for the forum to be better moderated are now complaining .... meanwhile...i'm more than happy and i fully intend to comply with the now enforced rules and will report any post that doesn't......and i make no apologies for that....

You know what I find offensive… is someone rolling their eyes at me, once is rude, 5 times in a single reply is just purely inciting. It really is the epitome of disrespect.

....

ps...there were only four in the post above and it had nothing to do with you....


....

[BackFromUSA]

There will be plenty of room for good humoured banter ... and yes I can tell the difference. How? I am a communications professional of over 20 years experience. And do I have a sense of humour? Well for the past 20 years I have had some of Australia's top comedians as clients and have worked with most of the top international comedians.

Bottom line - there are rules and then there are common sense exceptions.

In answer to feedback specifically regarding "citywest" and his questionable opinions ... current rules do not cover this behaviour ... but if becomes repeated behaviour rather than a once in a while thread or comment, then the MODS could act under this provision:

TROLL POLICY

“Trolls” are posters who have the only goal to create friction and anger in our community.

Any poster, who has the sole aim to create friction and anger in our community will receive an official warning.

[BackFromUSA]

The current version ... based on ALL feedback as of 3PM on 23/07/13:

PROPOSED SAINTSATIONAL FAN FORUM RULES (JULY 2013)

Saintsational Fan Forum is an unofficial St Kilda Football Club discussion forum open to all ages.

Respectful behaviour at all times is essential.

Vigorous debate and friendly banter on St. Kilda Football Club matters is encouraged, as long as there is respect for each other’s opinions. No matter how much you disagree, or dismiss the worth of any opinion posted, your response must be respectful.

REPORT FUNCTION

The forum has a <!> button in each post for ANY poster to report ANY breach of forum rules to the moderators. The reporting poster will only be known to the Moderators but otherwise anonymous.

MODERATION POLICY

There will be zero tolerance for baiting, belittling, badgering, bullying or any insulting, abusive, sexist, racist, homophobic or threatening behaviour, or any personal attacks in this Fan Forum or in Private Messages.

The moderation team has the right to edit or delete threads or posts that in their personal opinion breach any of these terms and at their discretion issue official warnings to the offending poster.

SPAMMING POLICY

Do not spam the forum board with multiple posts designed to disrupt the harmony of the board.

Each disruption may be eligible for an official warning and probably ban and / or account deletion.

TROLL POLICY

“Trolls” are posters who have the only goal to create friction and anger in our community.

Any poster, who has the sole aim to create friction and anger in our community will receive an official warning.

OPPOSITION SUPPORTER POLICY

Opposition supporters are welcome to post in a respectful manner and within forum rules, but should their goal be to disrupt our community, they will be deleted immediately WITHOUT warning.

COPYRIGHT POLICY

Due to copyright laws, when posting articles from any other website, please only post the URL (the link to the original article) - and no more a selected small portion no longer than one paragraph.

Breach will result in an official warning.

PRIVACY POLICY

Do not post private details of other posters in the public forums of this Fan Forum, nor post your own private details. It is not appropriate to post private messages in public on Saintsational Forums.

Breach will result in an official warning.

MULTIPLE IDENTITY POLICY

Posters found to hold multiple forum identities and using them to add support to their own position within a forum argument will be penalised with two official warnings to their primary forum identity and a permanent ban on secondary identities.

PENALTIES

Three official warnings in a 1 week (7 day) period will result in a 1 month ban.

If a poster receives 3 bans within a 12 month period, it will result in a permanent ban.

The posting of any pornographic material in the forum or via Private Message will result in an immediate permanent ban.

Intentional forum hijacking by starting multiple threads will result in an immediate permanent ban.

Bans will be published for all posters to see.

GRIEVANCES

Please note that all official warnings will be done in private via PM.

Should a Moderator be required to edit a post, this will be shown in the post and a warning and explanation issued in private to that poster via PM.

If a person wishes to discuss this further, please do so with the Moderation team via PM.

The Moderation team have the final say and are here to provide a fun environment for us to celebrate all things St Kilda Football Club.

Please accept the umpire's decision and move on.

The above penalty system gives you three chances before your enjoyment of the community will be restricted. Take advantage of those three chances to improve your conduct.

Do not start threads requesting discipline of other members, nor PM the Moderators requesting punishment.

You are entitled to report behaviour you believe contravenes the rules, but it will be at the Moderator discretion as to the punishment required.

[GrumpyOne]

There will be plenty of room for good humoured banter ... and yes I can tell the difference.

You can.... but can the other mods?

And their successors?

[6621104]

So BFUSA what to do about a recent interaction, a small snippet appended.

"And its not a petty argument asking a simple question to a forrest gump type person. Do you normally get involved in things you hate like you say about AFL footy. Again very strange indeed. And thanks for telling me what to leave off the forum. I will completely take no notice of that because i dont respect you."

My own view is that the last sentence fulfills a number of the "baiting, belittling ...."descriptors in the new rules yet I would not like to see the author sanctioned. I would miss the struggle as the bait is swallowed and the battle begins. I accept it does get tedious when it seems that sometimes there is a bite when there is no discernable bait but just as people slow down to watch a car crash I just have to keep reading! Sick eh?

[stinger]

So BFUSA what to do about a recent interaction, a small snippet appended.

"And its not a petty argument asking a simple question to a forrest gump type person. Do you normally get involved in things you hate like you say about AFL footy. Again very strange indeed. And thanks for telling me what to leave off the forum. I will completely take no notice of that because i dont respect you."

My own view is that the last sentence fulfills a number of the "baiting, belittling ...."descriptors in the new rules yet I would not like to see the author sanctioned. I would miss the struggle as the bait is swallowed and the battle begins. I accept it does get tedious when it seems that sometimes there is a bite when there is no discernable bait but just as people slow down to watch a car crash I just have to keep reading! Sick eh?

yet, i find such posts a tad more offensive than just tedious and i would be surprised if it escaped some sort of review by the mods......

[plugger66]

So BFUSA what to do about a recent interaction, a small snippet appended.

"And its not a petty argument asking a simple question to a forrest gump type person. Do you normally get involved in things you hate like you say about AFL footy. Again very strange indeed. And thanks for telling me what to leave off the forum. I will completely take no notice of that because i dont respect you."

My own view is that the last sentence fulfills a number of the "baiting, belittling ...."descriptors in the new rules yet I would not like to see the author sanctioned. I would miss the struggle as the bait is swallowed and the battle begins. I accept it does get tedious when it seems that sometimes there is a bite when there is no discernable bait but just as people slow down to watch a car crash I just have to keep reading! Sick eh?

Thanks for using that as an example. That should get a warning for me but in my defence he called me a rotund unfortunate looking man. This is my point. I couldnt give a stuff about him saying that I said a joke around that. I would never dob him or anyone in but others will and then the trouble begins because it is impossible to read every post so you either go to the so called trouble makers or the people who are that thin skinned and dob people in. I think what the gut said about me is funny and should never get a warning and I dont think what i said is to bad either. Surely you are allowed to say you dont respect posters and they are a forrest gump type person especially after being called a rotund unfortunate looking person.

[plugger66]

So BFUSA what to do about a recent interaction, a small snippet appended.

"And its not a petty argument asking a simple question to a forrest gump type person. Do you normally get involved in things you hate like you say about AFL footy. Again very strange indeed. And thanks for telling me what to leave off the forum. I will completely take no notice of that because i dont respect you."

My own view is that the last sentence fulfills a number of the "baiting, belittling ...."descriptors in the new rules yet I would not like to see the author sanctioned. I would miss the struggle as the bait is swallowed and the battle begins. I accept it does get tedious when it seems that sometimes there is a bite when there is no discernable bait but just as people slow down to watch a car crash I just have to keep reading! Sick eh?

yet, i find such posts a tad more offensive than just tedious and i would be surprised if it escaped some sort of review by the mods......

Here is perfect example of what this forum doesnt want. Tit for tat.

[dragit]

Good stuff BFUSA… thanks for listening as you go… I'm sure in practice it will work as we are asking.

As far as citywest goes… at least we know who that person is at present… no point banning, as they just pop up again under a different name. saintnick, helen-thingo, nexus-sphincter etc etc…

These are the trolls you can take or leave, the ones that cause any genuine problems are like yappa44 & stephen dank (who had a certain charm for their 1 post)

[markp]

It's not tit for tat, it's baiting.

And considering the thread....

How about people just quietly use the report button or foe button instead of using them to bait and attempting to beat people over the head with?

[markp]

Good stuff BFUSA… thanks for listening as you go… I'm sure in practice it will work as we are asking.

As far as citywest goes… at least we know who that person is at present… no point banning, as they just pop up again under a different name. saintnick, helen-thingo, nexus-sphincter etc etc…

These are the trolls you can take or leave, the ones that cause any genuine problems are like yappa44 & stephen dank (who had a certain charm for their 1 post)

Agree... and as I said, it's a fine line sometimes between a troll and a regular idiot... "sack the coach!"

Yappa44 was/is more a malicious vandal.