Young Saunders...

[spiral3]

Skill is his concern.... He's not a good kick..

love the way he goes about it, tough and multiple efforts that put some of his team mates to shame but have to agree with BM, haven't seem much to suggest he has great skills
also his decision making is a bit iffy, runs into trouble and dishes off to players in worse position
hopefully this will improve with experience

[plugger66]

Skill is his concern.... He's not a good kick..

love the way he goes about it, tough and multiple efforts that put some of his team mates to shame but have to agree with BM, haven't seem much to suggest he has great skills
also his decision making is a bit iffy, runs into trouble and dishes off to players in worse position
hopefully this will improve with experience

He has played about 5 games. Dont fall for BM trap of writing guys off after one game. he either does that or works in hindsight. Anything to show the clubs knows less than him.

[spiral3]

Skill is his concern.... He's not a good kick..

love the way he goes about it, tough and multiple efforts that put some of his team mates to shame but have to agree with BM, haven't seem much to suggest he has great skills
also his decision making is a bit iffy, runs into trouble and dishes off to players in worse position
hopefully this will improve with experience

He has played about 5 games. Dont fall for BM trap of writing guys off after one game. he either does that or works in hindsight. Anything to show the clubs knows less than him.

not writing him off at all, like him a lot, but at the moment he is a scrapper
would like to see more composure, hopefully that will come with experience and training

[plugger66]

love the way he goes about it, tough and multiple efforts that put some of his team mates to shame but have to agree with BM, haven't seem much to suggest he has great skills
also his decision making is a bit iffy, runs into trouble and dishes off to players in worse position
hopefully this will improve with experience

He has played about 5 games. Dont fall for BM trap of writing guys off after one game. he either does that or works in hindsight. Anything to show the clubs knows less than him.

not writing him off at all, like him a lot, but at the moment he is a scrapper
would like to see more composure, hopefully that will come with experience and training

It hopefully will. Look at jacks composure this year. he was always a good kick but had poor decision making and composure. Now he has both covered. Saunders skills seem ok its his composure at the minute.

[spiral3]

It hopefully will. Look at jacks composure this year. he was always a good kick but had poor decision making and composure. Now he has both covered. Saunders skills seem ok its his composure at the minute.

yeah Jacks come along well it that regard
seen saunders kick a few nice goals (draft highlights) and for the sandy/saints, so he must have some foot skills, just get it into his game more

[Con Gorozidis]

Sponsorship next year should be Saunders and Curren.
Two of the hardest nuts we have had in years.

[plugger66]

Sponsorship next year should be Saunders and Curren.
Two of the hardest nuts we have had in years.

You do keep them coming.

[skeptic]

Skill is his concern.... He's not a good kick..

love the way he goes about it, tough and multiple efforts that put some of his team mates to shame but have to agree with BM, haven't seem much to suggest he has great skills
also his decision making is a bit iffy, runs into trouble and dishes off to players in worse position
hopefully this will improve with experience

He has played about 5 games. Dont fall for BM trap of writing guys off after one game. he either does that or works in hindsight. Anything to show the clubs knows less than him.

better than writing them off in the VFL

[plugger66]

love the way he goes about it, tough and multiple efforts that put some of his team mates to shame but have to agree with BM, haven't seem much to suggest he has great skills
also his decision making is a bit iffy, runs into trouble and dishes off to players in worse position
hopefully this will improve with experience

He has played about 5 games. Dont fall for BM trap of writing guys off after one game. he either does that or works in hindsight. Anything to show the clubs knows less than him.

better than writing them off in the VFL

Who is the idiot who has done that? You keep mentioning someone who said that. They obviously have no knowledge of the game. Can you post quotes of the idiot who said that or do we assume you are making it up? At least you can follow your hero. He was good last night. So positive.

What is even more strange is i stick up for a player and you would rather stick up for a negative poster. Each to their own I suppose.

[Con Gorozidis]

Sponsorship next year should be Saunders and Curren.
Two of the hardest nuts we have had in years.

You do keep them coming.

What ?
So who are the hard nuts we have produced in the last 5 years .
You have to admit last 8 years have been fairly lean pickings on the kid front .
Or you reckon we have been pumping them out ?
That's why we're third bottom .
I must have missed all these young guns. Lucky I have you to remind me.
Thanks mate.

[plugger66]

Sponsorship next year should be Saunders and Curren.
Two of the hardest nuts we have had in years.

You do keep them coming.

What ?
So who are the hard nuts we have produced in the last 5 years .
You have to admit last 8 years have been fairly lean pickings on the kid front .
Or you reckon we have been pumping them out ?
That's why we're third bottom .
I must have missed all these young guns. Lucky I have you to remind me.
Thanks mate.

Well lets see. firstly Curren isnt even certain to be on the list next season so that would make it hard. Secondly they have played about 6 between them and for the same reason I wont have a go at aunders kicking skills I also wont say they are 2 of the hardest nuts we have seen in years. Curran hasnt even play a half of footy. Also i reckon Wright is a pretty hard nut as is even a player like Jack who goes in and gets his own ball. geary pretty hard, Dempster pretty hard at it. There are many who are hard at it.

[BigMart]

Did I write him off.... I remember starting the thread, and making it about a positive attribute Saunders has.... You're gold old fella, even trying to point out negatives in a positive post.

Can you actually point out where I wrote him off please??

If not, understand what you report about me is garbage, as per usual... You're like Tony Abbott mate, a negative slur campaign that gets cronies on board.... Not a great deal of truth though....

Pity I won't read your reply

BTW
Seen Saunders play about 18 now, pre season, VFL, AFL, TV.... But 5 will do, as it suits your argument eh?
And seen enough to suggest he WILL make it, confident enough to say.... For sure

Cripps, Raymond, Howard, Sweeney and all the others I 'wrote off' pretty much don't help your argument, do they??

[plugger66]

Did I write him off.... I remember starting the thread, and making it about a positive attribute Saunders has.... You're gold old fella, even trying to point out negatives in a positive post.

Can you actually point out where I wrote him off please??

If not, understand what you report about me is garbage, as per usual... You're like Tony Abbott mate, a negative slur campaign that gets cronies on board.... Not a great deal of truth though....

Pity I won't read your reply

BTW
Seen Saunders play about 18 now, pre season, VFL, AFL, TV.... But 5 will do, as it suits your argument eh?
And seen enough to suggest he WILL make it, confident enough to say.... For sure

Cripps, Raymond, Howard, Sweeney and all the others I 'wrote off' pretty much don't help your argument, do they??

You are my hero the way you can tell us all the players you wrote off after a game or two. Why havent you added Hickey and Shenton. remember Shenton the guy you wrote off after a game and then came on here and said he could make it. each way bet. I suppose we will see if he makes it or not before you tell us which post we should read.

Yep you started a positve thread but then it got a bit to positve for your liking so you brought the player down a peg or two. by the way for a guy you claim you have no interest in answering to you do a mighty fine job in answering. One day you will say wrrr. Anyway expect the one word response what soon.

[skeptic]

Who is the idiot who has done that? You keep mentioning someone who said that. They obviously have no knowledge of the game. Can you post quotes of the idiot who said that or do we assume you are making it up? At least you can follow your hero. He was good last night. So positive.

What is even more strange is i stick up for a player and you would rather stick up for a negative poster. Each to their own I suppose.

Weren't you the guy that said Tom Lee wouldn't make it??? I could go through the history but if I'm right you should come clean

And on VFL form said that Walsh, Cahill, Johnson, Lynch etc hadn't done enough to warrant selection... even when the had good games and then argued it was fact because they weren't picked up.

My point is that Lee and Ross as well as Saunders, Murdoch etc haven't dominated the VFL either... all it's taken is a few chances at AFL level on the back of being rewarded for decent form at Sandy. We now know these guys have potential that is worth persevering with regardless of whether they make it or not.

IIRC, you and I debated the management of these players at the time with yourself nominating the calibre of the players and the drafting as the major problem and me focusing of the development of the players as the problem.
I don't think the current crop of young players performed any better in the VFL than Cahill, Lynch, Johnson, Walsh etc (pbly a few I've forgotten over time)

[plugger66]

Who is the idiot who has done that? You keep mentioning someone who said that. They obviously have no knowledge of the game. Can you post quotes of the idiot who said that or do we assume you are making it up? At least you can follow your hero. He was good last night. So positive.

What is even more strange is i stick up for a player and you would rather stick up for a negative poster. Each to their own I suppose.

Weren't you the guy that said Tom Lee wouldn't make it??? I could go through the history but if I'm right you should come clean

And on VFL form said that Walsh, Cahill, Johnson, Lynch etc hadn't done enough to warrant selection... even when the had good games and then argued it was fact because they weren't picked up.

My point is that Lee and Ross as well as Saunders, Murdoch etc haven't dominated the VFL either... all it's taken is a few chances at AFL level on the back of being rewarded for decent form at Sandy. We now know these guys have potential that is worth persevering with regardless of whether they make it or not.

IIRC, you and I debated the management of these players at the time with yourself nominating the calibre of the players and the drafting as the major problem and me focusing of the development of the players as the problem.
I don't think the current crop of young players performed any better in the VFL than Cahill, Lynch, Johnson, Walsh etc (pbly a few I've forgotten over time)

I actually dont think any of that is true but Im sure you could prove me wrong if I actually said. When did I say Tom Lee wont make it? That is rubbish IMO. What I did say is if players are delisted from our club and not picked up it suggests they werent good enough. Reckon that makes a bit of sense. Ansd I reckon Cahill, Johnson and walsh are a long way short of AFL footy just as heyne and Miles were. I will ask you again if these players are up to AFL why havent they been picked up again? Im sure that what I have always said. I can remember having said you must be a good player in the VFL to make AFL especially if you are youinger. matter of fact many times I supported Steven when others didnt and new as soon as I saw Dal he would be a very good player even though he wasnt dominating AFL. Said the same about Sippo 2 years ago and that isnt looking anywhere near as good. I think you misinterupted what I said or meant but happy for you to show me I was wrong. I can say wrong. I wish a few others could. It should be the easiest thing to say afterall none of us even know each other.

[mad saint guy]

It's hard to place Saunders. He'll play five minutes of brilliant footy - winning clearances at full pace and delivering beautifully, then he'll look like a scrapper for the next 30 minutes before doing something impressive again.

We know he can do some very impressive things, for now he just needs to build his strength, endurance and composure to the point where he can consistently do the simple things well.

[Con Gorozidis]

Sponsorship next year should be Saunders and Curren.
Two of the hardest nuts we have had in years.

What ?
So who are the hard nuts we have produced in the last 5 years .
You have to admit last 8 years have been fairly lean pickings on the kid front .
Or you reckon we have been pumping them out ?
That's why we're third bottom .
I must have missed all these young guns. Lucky I have you to remind me.
Thanks mate.

Well lets see. firstly Curren isnt even certain to be on the list next season so that would make it hard. Secondly they have played about 6 between them and for the same reason I wont have a go at aunders kicking skills I also wont say they are 2 of the hardest nuts we have seen in years. Curran hasnt even play a half of footy. Also i reckon Wright is a pretty hard nut as is even a player like Jack who goes in and gets his own ball. geary pretty hard, Dempster pretty hard at it. There are many who are hard at it.

So you just named 5 blokes in 8 years.
Awesome!
How dare I talk up some young players! How dare I!
We are 3rd bottom but it seems we have been a production line of good players and hard nuts hit slat 5 years. ha I guess I missed them and thanks for pointing them out to me - where would we be with you to set us all straight.

[plugger66]

What ?
So who are the hard nuts we have produced in the last 5 years .
You have to admit last 8 years have been fairly lean pickings on the kid front .
Or you reckon we have been pumping them out ?
That's why we're third bottom .
I must have missed all these young guns. Lucky I have you to remind me.
Thanks mate.

Well lets see. firstly Curren isnt even certain to be on the list next season so that would make it hard. Secondly they have played about 6 between them and for the same reason I wont have a go at aunders kicking skills I also wont say they are 2 of the hardest nuts we have seen in years. Curran hasnt even play a half of footy. Also i reckon Wright is a pretty hard nut as is even a player like Jack who goes in and gets his own ball. geary pretty hard, Dempster pretty hard at it. There are many who are hard at it.

So you just named 5 blokes in 8 years.
Awesome!
How dare I talk up some young players! How dare I!
We are 3rd bottom but it seems we have been a production line of good players and hard nuts hit slat 5 years. ha I guess I missed them and thanks for pointing them out to me - where would we be with you to set us all straight.

Im not going to name guys that arent at the club anymore for a start and as I suggested its a bit early to call after less than a half of footy not that has stopped you in the past. Nothing wrong with talking up young players but lets get fair diinkum. A half a footy and a guy becomes one of the hardest nuts we have recruited in years. By the way i know we are third bottom. That is your new high horse. At least we know something else will take your fancy soon. And didnt this start about hard nuts and now its shifted to good players. Con they arent the same thing. You can be a hard nut and a hack. That wont make the side better. And i dont mean the 2 you mentioned. To early to call on both. I suppose when you call Ferg a star then nothing is to early for you.

[BigMart]

Professional players need you to 'stick up' for them?? FFS!

Difficult thing to do, just go into bat for a player, and play the loyal supporter card.... Tragic.... You went into bat for Months over Cripps and a lot of good that did you?!

Even though this negative supporter made a positive thread about young Josh, who seems a ripper... You couldn't quite fathom that and tried to spin it.... Why?

Not even sure why you do it....

I think your hero worshipping and apologist nature clouds you arguments IMO anyway...

I must be your mortal enemy or something?!

[plugger66]

Professional players need you to 'stick up' for them?? FFS!

Difficult thing to do, just go into bat for a player, and play the loyal supporter card.... Tragic.... You went into bat for Months over Cripps and a lot of good that did you?!

Even though this negative supporter made a positive thread about young Josh, who seems a ripper... You couldn't quite fathom that and tried to spin it.... Why?

Not even sure why you do it....

I think your hero worshipping and apologist nature clouds you arguments IMO anyway...

I must be your mortal enemy or something?!

For a person on foe you have a hard time ingorning me. you are far to easy BM. Now as you suggest to everyone why dont you actually ignore me. And i didnt stick up for Cripps apart from saying he didnt dog it. Big deal. At least I arent that stupid that i decide if a player is no good because there isnt a photo of that player. And i dont hero worship any player. Just name one? Another lie but lets be honest thats what you are best at. Just proven by not ignoring me. And you arent my mortel enemy. i dont have any but if I did it would be someone I know. Luckily im not in that position with you. Now go away and ignore me.

[Con Gorozidis]

Well lets see. firstly Curren isnt even certain to be on the list next season so that would make it hard. Secondly they have played about 6 between them and for the same reason I wont have a go at aunders kicking skills I also wont say they are 2 of the hardest nuts we have seen in years. Curran hasnt even play a half of footy. Also i reckon Wright is a pretty hard nut as is even a player like Jack who goes in and gets his own ball. geary pretty hard, Dempster pretty hard at it. There are many who are hard at it.

So you just named 5 blokes in 8 years.
Awesome!
How dare I talk up some young players! How dare I!
We are 3rd bottom but it seems we have been a production line of good players and hard nuts hit slat 5 years. ha I guess I missed them and thanks for pointing them out to me - where would we be with you to set us all straight.

Im not going to name guys that arent at the club anymore for a start and as I suggested its a bit early to call after less than a half of footy not that has stopped you in the past. Nothing wrong with talking up young players but lets get fair diinkum. A half a footy and a guy becomes one of the hardest nuts we have recruited in years. By the way i know we are third bottom. That is your new high horse. At least we know something else will take your fancy soon. And didnt this start about hard nuts and now its shifted to good players. Con they arent the same thing. You can be a hard nut and a hack. That wont make the side better. And i dont mean the 2 you mentioned. To early to call on both. I suppose when you call Ferg a star then nothing is to early for you.

I like the look of them. yes i do!

I never said 'star' I said well worth a look at. I also think Shenton is worth a look at.
You misrepresent and misinterpret regularly but I wont stoop to your level and call you the 'l' word like you do to me regularly.
But lucky we all have you here to keep us honest.

We are 3rd bottom. We arent going ok. The only way we can improve is via younger players coming through. And part of this process involves churn and information gathering so we make the right choices. You cant make a call on a player without seeing them play.
Ive said this again and again yet for some reason you just like to pick out something then contort it and pot me rather than talk footy.

But given you reckon you are 'mates' with players you just seem to want to keep old guys playing forever even though we are third bottom.

[plugger66]

So you just named 5 blokes in 8 years.
Awesome!
How dare I talk up some young players! How dare I!
We are 3rd bottom but it seems we have been a production line of good players and hard nuts hit slat 5 years. ha I guess I missed them and thanks for pointing them out to me - where would we be with you to set us all straight.

Im not going to name guys that arent at the club anymore for a start and as I suggested its a bit early to call after less than a half of footy not that has stopped you in the past. Nothing wrong with talking up young players but lets get fair diinkum. A half a footy and a guy becomes one of the hardest nuts we have recruited in years. By the way i know we are third bottom. That is your new high horse. At least we know something else will take your fancy soon. And didnt this start about hard nuts and now its shifted to good players. Con they arent the same thing. You can be a hard nut and a hack. That wont make the side better. And i dont mean the 2 you mentioned. To early to call on both. I suppose when you call Ferg a star then nothing is to early for you.

I like the look of them. yes i do!

I never said 'star' I said well worth a look at. I also think Shenton is worth a look at.
You misrepresent and misinterpret regularly but I wont stoop to your level and call you the 'l' word like you do to me regularly.
But lucky we all have you here to keep us honest.

We are 3rd bottom. We arent going ok. The only way we can improve is via younger players coming through. And part of this process involves churn and information gathering so we make the right choices. You cant make a call on a player without seeing them play.
Ive said this again and again yet for some reason you just like to pick out something then contort it and pot me rather than talk footy.

But given you reckon you are 'mates' with players you just seem to want to keep old guys playing forever even though we are third bottom.

Con you have gone off along a different path. This started out as you saying a guy who has played less than a half of footy is one of the hardest players we have recruited in years and we should sponser him. I then pointed out maybe its a bit early to tell and then all of a sudden you start talking about older players, me being mates with players, 3rd last on the ladder and so on. What are you talking about? I suggest you re read how this started and my reponse and then realise I was never talking about the things you are now mentioning. And your response in your reply means what in the contect of anything we have discussed. The good thing is you will soon have a new hobby horse.

[BigMart]

I see a lot of positives to come out of this season thus far

Josh being one....

Murdoch, Ross, Ledger, Curran, Armitage, Steven, Webster, Newnes, Roberton, Wright, Pierce, White, Staley

All elevated their level of footy

Treading water (injury or flat spot)
Siposs, Stanley, Minchington, Simpkin, Saad, Ferguson, Shenton

All under 25

Plenty to like

Third last is worse than it looks for StK

Don't presume to know everything I think... I'm quietly optimistic going fwd... Not so much ATM.

I also believe StK is three smart recruiting decisions away from a 2015 finals entry... Only to drop out again and go again 2 years after that....

[skeptic]

I actually dont think any of that is true but Im sure you could prove me wrong if I actually said. When did I say Tom Lee wont make it? That is rubbish IMO. What I did say is if players are delisted from our club and not picked up it suggests they werent good enough. Reckon that makes a bit of sense. Ansd I reckon Cahill, Johnson and walsh are a long way short of AFL footy just as heyne and Miles were. I will ask you again if these players are up to AFL why havent they been picked up again? Im sure that what I have always said. I can remember having said you must be a good player in the VFL to make AFL especially if you are youinger. matter of fact many times I supported Steven when others didnt and new as soon as I saw Dal he would be a very good player even though he wasnt dominating AFL. Said the same about Sippo 2 years ago and that isnt looking anywhere near as good. I think you misinterupted what I said or meant but happy for you to show me I was wrong. I can say wrong. I wish a few others could. It should be the easiest thing to say afterall none of us even know each other.

True that.

I do agree with a few of your points.

If a player is delisted and not picked up, it does suggest that they were not good enough. What I don't like about this argument is that when you underplay players for as long as these guys were... referring specifically to Cahill, Johnson, Miles, Lynch etc especially when we have defiencies in the positions they play (which we did), it can indicate the presence of other problems that may put clubs off them.
For example, Cahill couldn't get a game as a forward in a team that needed a forward despite okay'ish form at Sandy. To another club that suggests a deeper problem.

Now don't get me wrong... there may well have been a deeper problem... guys like ourselves that don't know the inner workings of the club never get to fully u/s the reasons. Where you and I disagree it seems, and we have discussed this before, you seem to go by the logic that he wasn't played because he wasn't good enough. And you attribute poor drafting as a major factor to our current list holes.

Personally, I simply can't believe that we got it that wrong that consistently. A lot of our poicks were in line with various phantom drafts and went where they were suppossed to yet we got it wrong nearly every time over 3 years.

I look at the Cahill scenario and say what did say Tom Lee demonstrate that Cahill didn't? Cahill had a few good games and kicked a few bags. Why wasn't he worth a shot in 2 years? All you can ask of a jnr player in the 1st 2 seasons is that they show you SOMETHING in the VFL that suggests they may make it and if they do that, IMO you need to give them 2 or 3 patches of 3-4 games in the AFL and see if they do something to suggest they are worth persevering with.

One of the reasons I disliked RL was that the before mentioned guys got little opportunity whilst mediocre players were persevered with.

Ross, Lee, Siposs, Saunders, Newnes ---- none of these guys showed that much more then what the previous list did... Ross for example was turing into a whipping boy 6mths ago but they got opportunities on the back of good performance and some of them have run with it.

Guys like Curren, Ledger and Dunnel have shown a bit at Sandy 2 but have been seriously underplayed this season.

Anyway, on Tom Lee, here is the post in question

I'll be the person to call it and not that a lot of courage to say it but a dud pick again. Con says his body isnt ready.Is the club that pathetic they didnt know that. As WW points out he wasnt picked to be good in 5 years. He was an AFL player 4 years ago.

in this thread posting.php?mode=quote&f=1&p=1344140

I may have read a bit much into it but you did call him a dud which I interpreted as meaning you had written him off. Look he may not make it, but he got a few chances and at least showed he is worth persevering with for now

[plugger66]

Well hopefully i am completely wrong and i dont mind hoping that. I reckon some on here would never admit wrong and are actually hoping they are right just to say I told you so. In my defence I didnt call him a dud, I called the pick a dud pick but again I would love to be proved wrong and there is no doubt i went to early and its unfair on him. Hopefully i was drunk at the time and thats a little excuse.

As for your other comments. yes we may have a few issues but in one year we did win 19 in a row and in the other we drew a GF. maybe we could have improved the side but RL was huge on role players and I trust his game day coaching over every single one of us on here and if he thought certain players would stuff up his roles then I bow to his judgement. As for Cahill i saw him many times and thought he wsnt a very good footballer and should never have played. he was one of a heap of very bad draft picks we had back then. And maybe cahill is as good as some playing now and that maybe the reason we are third bottom and back in those days we made 2 GF's. Dont worry in 3 or 4 years time we will look back and say how did that player ever play AFL footy back in 2013. While we are hopeful of all making it now only about 50% of those young kids playing now will be on our list in 3 years time.