We want the kids to play and have honourable defeats

[kosifantutti]

You're on your Pat Malone.

No he is not.

Who says it is better for the "kids" to lose all the time than the "kids" win a few games, get their confidence in the own game going, and improve as a team, than getting beaten all the time?

I want to see us win as many as possible with the kids being the driving force behind those wins.

If we miss out on Aish or Scharenberg so be it. Maybe we might miss out on them and get a Lenny instead.

Any win from now on could be mean picking up a Kosi instead of a Rooey. That's the way I look at it. Harsh, but real.

Or a Judd instead of a Ball.

[mr six o'clock]

If we play our best football , I think we would be very lucky to win 4 more games !

If we did this we'd probably end up at best 13th , which would still get us a high draft pick .
realistically , we may only win 1 more game , so bring on 2014 !

[suss]

So you guys would rather get games into Jason Blake & co and finish 9th? Smart.

Honourable loses are waaay more beneficial right now. We get experience into the babies and maybe a superstar to set the club up for the next 10 years. Remember why we got Riewoldt? Goddard? Not from being mediocre.

You can get all noble and tell everyone you like you want to win games and would prefer to finish 9th than 16th. It's an easy thing to do when you know it's not likely to happen.

[Richter]

Play the kids. Try to win. When we lose, be philosophical.

[sainterinsydney]

I never stated we should tank. I think what Scotty is doing at the moment is good--rotating the kids in and out of the team, ensuring they gain experience. The bottom line is, though, when draft day comes, you want to finish as low on the ladder as possible. Remember the quick rebound West Coast made after being doing the bottom. I really want to see us get a top 3 pick.

Also, I certainly wasn't barracking for Carlton last week, but, at the same time, it certainly wasn't dire straits that we lost.

[saint6]

[
Any win from now on could be mean picking up a Kosi instead of a Rooey. That's the way I look at it. Harsh, but real.

Kosi was a number two draft pick. Losing every game from here could still result in us picking up a failure. And as I recall Kosi was an outstanding player until he suffered that head injury and was never the same after. Hate the way people denigrate him - he nearly won that 2010 first grand final for us after gardiner was injured.

[samuraisaint]

All we want are for the kids to keep getting a game, and show promise. Honourable defeats are the desired outcome for every game until the end of the season--we do not want to win. Winning a meaningless game at the end of the season could mean missing out on Aish or Scharenberg. Even though it is painful to want to see your team lose, the best outcome for the club, long term, is to not win another game this season.

You may not want them to win but I will be hoping they win every game they play this season.

I'm with you on this. I remember the late 70s and 80s. I want to win every game we play. I think we can definitely win two more games this season - against Port and Gold Coast.

[spert]

Sounds like the Saints of the 80's where supporters were happy with being close enough when losing regularly. Successful clubs aim to win at every chance, and we don't want young players learning in a losing environment- we should be going out this week with the intention of smacking Port, not just putting up a good show.

[plugger66]

So you guys would rather get games into Jason Blake & co and finish 9th? Smart.

Honourable loses are waaay more beneficial right now. We get experience into the babies and maybe a superstar to set the club up for the next 10 years. Remember why we got Riewoldt? Goddard? Not from being mediocre.

You can get all noble and tell everyone you like you want to win games and would prefer to finish 9th than 16th. It's an easy thing to do when you know it's not likely to happen.

Im still trying to find one post that suggested playing Blake. many just said they want to win games when they attend that game. I will ask you this simple question? If you attend Saints games or listen to then or watch them on TV are you barracking for the saints during the game or the oppostion and just barracking we get close. I would find it strange that a Saints supporter barracked for Carlton last week.

I think everyone is happy to play kids but i also think most want us to win before and during the game. if the result doesnt go our way the positive is a good draft pick. But I say I would never barrack for an honourable loss before the actual game. The other thing is if we did play kids and won the last 7 games, which obviously wont happen, wouldnt that mean we have some great kids for the future because it wont just the older guys getting it done.

[saint6]

We do have some great kids for our future and need to get as many games into them as possible.
That does not mean that I want to see our team lose week after week - was really difficult to sit there last week and listen to the feral carlton supporters start singing their song with 10 minutes to go.
I will be hoping to see the saints win in all the games that I attend or watch for the rest of the year although I accept that this is unlikely to happen.

[8856brother]

[
Any win from now on could be mean picking up a Kosi instead of a Rooey. That's the way I look at it. Harsh, but real.

Kosi was a number two draft pick. Losing every game from here could still result in us picking up a failure. And as I recall Kosi was an outstanding player until he suffered that head injury and was never the same after. Hate the way people denigrate him - he nearly won that 2010 first grand final for us after gardiner was injured.

Not denigrating at all. Just stating the obvious. Roo is a star. Give me draft pick 3 over draft pick 4 every day. More honorable losses please.

[BringBackMadDog]

If I ever start going to the football hoping we lose, I will stop going to the footy. I hate losing, I spent too many years watching us lose week in, week out. Can you imaging the excitement if these bunch of kids win 4 or 5 of the last 8 games and show some REAL promise?? It doesnt prevent us from still going hard in Free Agency talks and we will still finish between 12-14 which is still a reasonable pick.

[Old Mate]

It's important that we give ourselves the best opportunity to secure the best available talent in the draft by having the lowest draft pick possible. Really it doesn't matter a great deal whether we finish 16 or 12 in terms of player development, you still expose the young guys to senior footy and they'll learn the same by winning or losing IMO (unless you go extreme tank mode like Melbourne)....But our win loss record will impact the available talent we have come draft day.

Saying that, I can't bring myself to barrack against the club even if it is the detriment to our draft chances. I'll be cheering the team this Saturday night and if we lose I'll be pissed off and when I get over the loss I'll be thinking well at least we've given ourselves a better chance at the draft. Due to the nature of the draft, I have a lot of mixed emotions. We haven't been in a position like this for some time.

[joffaboy]

If I ever start going to the football hoping we lose, I will stop going to the footy. .

My favourite line from Moneyball is Billy Bean saying 'I HATE losing, I hate losing more than I love winning"

Great line

[lloyd21]

Would be wanting a win this week

[SaintPav]

If I ever start going to the football hoping we lose, I will stop going to the footy. .

My favourite line from Moneyball is Billy Bean saying 'I HATE losing, I hate losing more than I love winning"

Great line

That is an established tenet in classical economics and has been proven time and again in many experiments in behvioural economics as well.

Sorry, but the nerd in me had to weigh in there.

PS: Neoclassical economics is a fraud. Just saying.

[SunburySaint]

I'm with P66 and Joffa on this, give me a win any day of the week. I can't bring myself to even think about wanting my team to lose, just can't!

Someone mentioned earlier no one would care for or remember next year if we beat port next week, well what IF we beat say a Hawthorn, Geelong, Sydney or even Freo and dent Freo's top 4 aspirations? I don't think we can beat those teams, but if we did, it will show our kids are shining and a low draft pick would be a bonus. I know EVERYONE would remember a win over one of those teams this year...

Let's just support our team to WIN!

[suss]

So you guys would rather get games into Jason Blake & co and finish 9th? Smart.

Honourable loses are waaay more beneficial right now. We get experience into the babies and maybe a superstar to set the club up for the next 10 years. Remember why we got Riewoldt? Goddard? Not from being mediocre.

You can get all noble and tell everyone you like you want to win games and would prefer to finish 9th than 16th. It's an easy thing to do when you know it's not likely to happen.

Im still trying to find one post that suggested playing Blake. many just said they want to win games when they attend that game. I will ask you this simple question? If you attend Saints games or listen to then or watch them on TV are you barracking for the saints during the game or the oppostion and just barracking we get close. I would find it strange that a Saints supporter barracked for Carlton last week.

I think everyone is happy to play kids but i also think most want us to win before and during the game. if the result doesnt go our way the positive is a good draft pick. But I say I would never barrack for an honourable loss before the actual game. The other thing is if we did play kids and won the last 7 games, which obviously wont happen, wouldnt that mean we have some great kids for the future because it wont just the older guys getting it done.

My opinion is actually probably not too dissimilar from yours. I wanted to beat Carlton - no doubt about it. But if there's an opportunity to play a younger player over a more experienced equivalent who may be slightly better, then I advocate the younger player. The perfect example for me is Kosi / Hickey. I think Kosi is more likely to affect a game than Hickey, but I'd prefer Hickey in to give him experience (putting aside the 200 game issue). If that increases the chance of a loss, then so be it. The Maister / Siposs issue is similar.

That doesn't mean I want to 'to a Melbourne'. I don't want the club to manufacture losses - that is road to wreck and ruin, but there's an incidental benefit of playing younger, more inexperienced players, and that's a very, very high draft pick.

I generally think the club has got it right this year: our better experienced players (Monty, Dal, Roo etc) are preventing us from getting smashed, but keeping the confidence high enough that we aren't following the Melbourne path. Who do I want to win tomorrow? Definitely Australia.

[SemperFidelis]

I'm with P66 and Joffa on this, give me a win any day of the week. I can't bring myself to even think about wanting my team to lose, just can't!

Someone mentioned earlier no one would care for or remember next year if we beat port next week, well what IF we beat say a Hawthorn, Geelong, Sydney or even Freo and dent Freo's top 4 aspirations? I don't think we can beat those teams, but if we did, it will show our kids are shining and a low draft pick would be a bonus. I know EVERYONE would remember a win over one of those teams this year...

Let's just support our team to WIN!

Ditto.
In terms of warnings against the opposite course, the Melbourne experience is a gift that keeps on giving.
I don't care who we beat. Or don't beat. Just play to win and learn something useful in the process.

[Hoges]

Not sure I can believe the proposition put by old mate that you learn the same from losing as wining in terms of player develoment - I think developing a culture that is focused on winning and learn the small differences that create a win is far more important than getting a couple of higher places in the drafting lottery - happy to be philosophical about our position but any notion that there is satisfaction in an honourable loss will destroy our culture.

[gringo]

I hope we win as many as possible. Any player in the top 2 to 10 picks is going to have a very good chance of being a very good to excellent player.

[Greg T]

[
Any win from now on could be mean picking up a Kosi instead of a Rooey. That's the way I look at it. Harsh, but real.

Kosi was a number two draft pick. Losing every game from here could still result in us picking up a failure. And as I recall Kosi was an outstanding player until he suffered that head injury and was never the same after. Hate the way people denigrate him - he nearly won that 2010 first grand final for us after gardiner was injured.

Yea good post.Who would complain picking up another no 2 like him..
A winning culture is what is required.regardless of age.
How many winless years have we had and for what.....

[samuraisaint]

And think of the father-son we may get from Kosi. His partner is tall too, so we could end up with an absolute gun of a KPP out of this.