I will get caned for this

[joffaboy]

But cant bring myself to go on Saturday night with Milne in the team.

Not a case of me thinking he is guilty, he is entitled to the presumption of innocence, I just dont want to be involved in an ugly crowd.

I feel for everyone in this tawdry episode, including us as supporters, even though it pales into insignificance compared to what Milne, his family, the woman and her family are going through.

However I could not enjoy the game with him in the team even though I love him as a footballer.

There is too much ugliness in the world, and I fear Saturday night will be one of the ugliest crowd reactions to a player in a long long time.

I dont want to be party to that. I dont want to be involved in a mob mentality on either side. I dont want to be involved in the negativity and ugliness of it all.

So I will sit this one out. Call me soft, call me a piker, I dont mind.

Its how i feel.

Go Saints hope you absolutely thrash the Bluse and Milney kicks a bag.

[#gosaintas]

MOD REMOVED POST WITH POSTERS PERMISSION

[joffaboy]

MOD REMOVED POST WITH POSTERS PERMISSION

[Saint Pup]

No reason to get caught up in the mob mentality, just go and watch and do everything you would normally do. Changing your behavior because of others acting out of line will not solve anything, and will not help move us forward as a population.

[Stillwaiting]

What an attention seeking bunch of tripe. Look at me. Look at me.

As is the reply

[BringBackMadDog]

I'm going but I understand what you're saying Joff. My wife and I are actually dreading going. This is the same mob that was chanting "no means no" last year when Milney wasn't charged. It's going to get ugly

[plugger66]

No reason to get caught up in the mob mentality, just go and watch and do everything you would normally do. Changing your behavior because of others acting out of line will not solve anything, and will not help move us forward as a population.

The problem with that is it will hard to sick there and hear the word rapist every 5 seconds no matter how much you want to ignore it. I feel like JB but im actually doing the opposite and going to a saturday night to support when normally i dont go on saturdays to the footy.

[The Fireman]

I would go just to reply with "Cheating wogs"

[GrumpyOne]

I would go just to reply with "Cheating wogs"

Perhaps we should all go and wave paper bags.

[paulski]

I'm not looking forward to Saturday, but I'm still going.

Think it's going to be ugly, but I'm going to support the team I love.

Nothing would ever stop me doing that!

[saintspremiers]

Lets look at other issues: we are rebuilding have no hope of finals so playing your best side is not número uno.

Milney may also retire or not be offered a contract beyond this season also.

Unfortunately you can't say Milne is holding back another small forward as Milera and Saad have had plenty of chances to impress.

I just hope the club is fully on top of all the many and varied issues with this case. Maybe they are worried about possible legal action from Milne against the club if he's stood down any longer? Although saying that a players non selection can be for many reasons.

[Johnny Member]

I'm still uneasy as to how the St Kilda fans will react to Milne.

Will there be over the top applause for him - just because he's a Saints player? I find that a bit uncomfortable too.

I

[perfectionist]

Will there be a Moorabbin Wing somewhere?

[Dr Spaceman]

I’ll be going but like others have said, it will be with some trepidation.

I love going to the footy but when I do it’s the beers before the game with mates and the cheering for the Saints that provides the enjoyment. I tend to switch off the old brain for a few hours and just allow myself to soak in the experience. The last thing I want to have to do is worry about moral issues and enter into some intellectual debate about who should be taking the field.

The irony (for want of a better word) is that the majority of abuse being hurled at both Milney and Saints supporters is likely to be coming from feral Carlton supporters who don’t respect women (in the case of males) or themselves (in the case of females) or the justice system.

Conversely, those people who perhaps have a genuine issue with Milney playing are likely to be sitting in their homes quietly fuming, or at worst, standing outside Etihad holding a small cardboard sign.

[joffaboy]

I’ll be going but like others have said, it will be with some trepidation.

I love going to the footy but when I do it’s the beers before the game with mates and the cheering for the Saints that provides the enjoyment. I tend to switch off the old brain for a few hours and just allow myself to soak in the experience. The last thing I want to have to do is worry about moral issues and enter into some intellectual debate about who should be taking the field.

The irony (for want of a better word) is that the majority of abuse being hurled at both Milney and Saints supporters is likely to be coming from feral Carlton supporters who don’t respect women (in the case of males) or themselves (in the case of females) or the justice system.

Conversely, those people who perhaps have a genuine issue with Milney playing are likely to be sitting in their homes quietly fuming, or at worst, standing outside Etihad holding a small cardboard sign.

Well articulated. Much better than I could have put the issue.

Jonny Member also makes a very good point.

[mcadam05]

Just remind them of Carlton's own history of its players and sexual assault , even good'ol John Elliott made it part of his shtick at sportsmen nights how he joked he payed off women who would dare too cry rape

[Dis Believer]

But cant bring myself to go on Saturday night with Milne in the team.

Not a case of me thinking he is guilty, he is entitled to the presumption of innocence, I just dont want to be involved in an ugly crowd.

I feel for everyone in this tawdry episode, including us as supporters, even though it pales into insignificance compared to what Milne, his family, the woman and her family are going through.

However I could not enjoy the game with him in the team even though I love him as a footballer.

There is too much ugliness in the world, and I fear Saturday night will be one of the ugliest crowd reactions to a player in a long long time.

I dont want to be party to that. I dont want to be involved in a mob mentality on either side. I dont want to be involved in the negativity and ugliness of it all.

So I will sit this one out. Call me soft, call me a piker, I dont mind.

Its how i feel.

Go Saints hope you absolutely thrash the Bluse and Milney kicks a bag.

I understand the dilema. I am not going either at this stage. That is because I know myself. I am a passionate person, I have trouble keeping my feelings hidden, and I believe in speaking freely. Go hard or go home type of thing. I know that at the the WCE game, a row of WCE supporters after the siren cheering the umpires off and calling "thanks for four points" was enough to get me into a position where someone else had to drag me away to avoid a "situation". My nature is to confront a situation, I am self aware enough to know that despite my best efforts at self restraint, if someone pushes the right button long enough then I will end up responding. I wish to avoid that, it is not why I go to the footy. I want to support my team and one of it's great servants, but I do not wish to get arrested over a bunch of feral dickheads that ironically support the team with the biggest history of corrupt behaviour in the league.

[joffaboy]

Just remind them of Carlton's own history of its players and sexual assault , even good'ol John Elliott made it part of his shtick at sportsmen nights how he joked he payed off women who would dare too cry rape

And thats the point. Accusation and counter accusation.

Ugliness and the whole focus taken away for the reaosn why I am there.

To watch and appreciate football, not abuse and insult, and then counter abuse and insult.

The atmosphere would be appalling and if I had small kids, I would certainly not be taking them on Saturday night.

I dont want to overplay the issue, I am not "scared" to front up, I have had plenty of run ins with opposition supporters and also plenty of happy fun banter, I think it is because i am conflicted on the isue of Milne playing, of the tribalism taking to an uncomfortable place where as Johnny Member stated Saints are cheering Milne just because he is in Red White and Black to drown out the boos and insults of the opposition because they are slandering him on a non football related issue.

Really difficult and complex.

Oh and I applaude the supporters going, this is a personal decision based on personal misgivings.

[joffaboy]

But cant bring myself to go on Saturday night with Milne in the team.

Not a case of me thinking he is guilty, he is entitled to the presumption of innocence, I just dont want to be involved in an ugly crowd.

I feel for everyone in this tawdry episode, including us as supporters, even though it pales into insignificance compared to what Milne, his family, the woman and her family are going through.

However I could not enjoy the game with him in the team even though I love him as a footballer.

There is too much ugliness in the world, and I fear Saturday night will be one of the ugliest crowd reactions to a player in a long long time.

I dont want to be party to that. I dont want to be involved in a mob mentality on either side. I dont want to be involved in the negativity and ugliness of it all.

So I will sit this one out. Call me soft, call me a piker, I dont mind.

Its how i feel.

Go Saints hope you absolutely thrash the Bluse and Milney kicks a bag.

I understand the dilema. I am not going either at this stage. That is because I know myself. I am a passionate person, I have trouble keeping my feelings hidden, and I believe in speaking freely. Go hard or go home type of thing. I know that at the the WCE game, a row of WCE supporters after the siren cheering the umpires off and calling "thanks for four points" was enough to get me into a position where someone else had to drag me away to avoid a "situation". My nature is to confront a situation, I am self aware enough to know that despite my best efforts at self restraint, if someone pushes the right button long enough then I will end up responding. I wish to avoid that, it is not why I go to the footy. I want to support my team and one of it's great servants, but I do not wish to get arrested over a bunch of feral dickheads that ironically support the team with the biggest history of corrupt behaviour in the league.

Understand your position. I too find it difficult to not have a go at clowns and really I dont go to the footy to do that, as you say.

[mullet]

There are a whole team of guys who need our support

But I respect everyones right to go or not.

[Dr Spaceman]

There are a whole team of guys who need our support

But I respect everyones right to go or not.

Ditto (especially the bolded bit)

[Dis Believer]

And to those that are giving JB a serve over this, pull your heads in. This is a forum - that means discussions take place. As a footy club, this is one of the most difficult issues the supporter base has had to confront. I realise it is a level above the regular knuckle-dragging "should we boo club champion "x" who went to another club?" but it presents a moral and ethical issue of loyalty versus social conscience the likes of which we rarely, if ever, encounter. For those that mentally operate above the level of "mmmmm, beer good", this is quite probably occupying their mind.

I know where I stand on this ethically, but am also aware of the potential environment on Saturday and my likely reaction in that environment, so for me it is an easy choice. It is not so easy for many others.

Props to JB for having the stones to speak up.

[gringo]

I think it's more of an issue for us Saints fans- he's been copping it for the last 9 years . As someone said John Elliott laughed at us because they used to give women a couple of hundred thousand to go away including for members of their last Premiership side. I know someone that knew a victim. My brother in law was saying the same thing and he's a Blues fan- the skeletons are in their closet too.

It's going to have to come sometime so get it out of the way. Even the Bombers really only got one week of it.

[evertonfc]

I have great sympathy with the opening post. It doesn't sit well with me that Milne is in the team.

And I can't believe people would choose to retort - even jokingly - about "wogs" or "paying off women". Even "salary cap" is a bit touch and go for me.

They might say worse, but that's because they're...them. That doesn't make it right.

We, as a club, need to have better values than that.

If you're being baited, remember, you're being baited by a scumbag of a human being who doesn't deserve your attention.

[joffaboy]

And to those that are giving JB a serve over this, pull your heads in. This is a forum - that means discussions take place. As a footy club, this is one of the most difficult issues the supporter base has had to confront. I realise it is a level above the regular knuckle-dragging "should we boo club champion "x" who went to another club?" but it presents a moral and ethical issue of loyalty versus social conscience the likes of which we rarely, if ever, encounter. For those that mentally operate above the level of "mmmmm, beer good", this is quite probably occupying their mind.

Encapsulated nicely. This is a personal conscious decision for everyone and I thought it would be a good topic to explore. Not too many actually caning me which is good.

Probably the new forum rules

The discussion has been healthy with varying PoV's but no jacking or personal abuse which the new regime was designed for.