Sex assault victims' groups hit out Milne selection

[maverick]

he wouldve been paid even if not playing

but the whole situation whether he plays or doesnt was always going to end up a complete shambles when he finally did take the park

lose/lose situation

Not fully.

[plugger66]

You honestly think a person charged with murder should be able to play.

If he's out on bail then yes. He still hasn't been found guilty ... so to not play him would be a presumption of guilt.

I'm not sure you understand the concept of "presumption of innocence".

BC you must be taking the piss. Its the only conclusion i can come to from a person who doesnt usually post rubbish.

[Waltzing St Kilda]

Play him: massive negative publicity, club's image tarnished, sponsors shy away.

Don't play him: player unrest, AFLPA outrage, morale problems, a perception that the club has cut a great player loose in his time of need.

Terrible, terrible situation.

The winners: other clubs, the media, armchair moralists.

[markp]

Yeah charged with 4 counts of rape vs playing a game of footy.... Obviously playing a game of footy is more important.

Just as obviously as him not being able to play footy would be akin to stoning him to death.

Don't get our point, is there one?

My point is that it's just a game and these are extremely serious charges, so I dont think he should be playing.

[bigcarl]

You honestly think a person charged with murder should be able to play.

If he's out on bail then yes. He still hasn't been found guilty ... so to not play him would be a presumption of guilt.

I'm not sure you understand the concept of "presumption of innocence".

BC you must be taking the piss. Its the only conclusion i can come to from a person who doesnt usually post rubbish.

I'm not taking the piss Plugger. It's a fundamental concept of our legal system. Innocent until proven otherwise. The presumption of innocence.

It is for this reason that the club cannot stand Milne down indefinitely because to do so on the grounds of him being charged with rape would be presuming his guilt.

The only way we got around it with the Lovett case was to cite other reasons for standing him down.

[markp]

It's presumption of innocence before the law.

If a teacher is accused of molesting a kid you think they should be allowed to keep teaching?

[bigcarl]

If a teacher is accused of molesting a kid you think they should be allowed to keep teaching?

In that case probably he/she should be stood down until the case is heard on the understanding that he/she is reinstated if proven not guilty. In this case, I doubt Milne is going to molest anyone on Saturday night.

[Playon]

Yeah charged with 4 counts of rape vs playing a game of footy.... Obviously playing a game of footy is more important.

Just as obviously as him not being able to play footy would be akin to stoning him to death.

Really. Do you think his legal team will be sympathetic? Grow up.

[markp]

If a teacher is accused of molesting a kid you think they should be allowed to keep teaching?

In that case probably he/she should be stood down until the case is heard on the understanding that he/she is reinstated if proven not guilty. In this case, I doubt Milne is going to molest anyone on Saturday night.

What about the enshrined and sacrosanct 'presumption of innocence'?

People are suspended on full pay in similar and a varied range of situations pending resolution all the time.

The difference with lovett is we sacked him.

[markp]

Grow up.

Says the guy who wrote...

Footy player sl*t angry at wrong player.

Footy player sl*t rues sex with wrong victim.

Footy player sl*t gets even after casual affair

Footy player sl*t not satisfied

Ok.

[magnifisaint]

Or If we take Milnes side

Footy player sl*t angry at wrong player.

Footy player sl*t rues sex with wrong victim.

Footy player sl*t gets even after casual affair

Footy player sl*t not satisfied

Seriously it needs to go to court and if he's guilty hang him. But until then we can all make stupid comments.

I feel sorry for his family and hope that after all this they can still cope and for his kids sake I hope he's not convicted.

Pathetic even if looking at Milnes side. milne has been charged. She hasnt been charged with anything. Anyway this was always going to happen and that is why it was a risk to our club when we eventually did pick him. Im more worried about supporters on both sides on Saturday night. Could get real ugly.

Not if you keep your mouth shut and ignore them. It doesn't need to get ugly.

[magnifisaint]

It's presumption of innocence before the law.

If a teacher is accused of molesting a kid you think they should be allowed to keep teaching?

Two different things. Do you think Milne is stalking her?

[plugger66]

Or If we take Milnes side

Footy player sl*t angry at wrong player.

Footy player sl*t rues sex with wrong victim.

Footy player sl*t gets even after casual affair

Footy player sl*t not satisfied

Seriously it needs to go to court and if he's guilty hang him. But until then we can all make stupid comments.

I feel sorry for his family and hope that after all this they can still cope and for his kids sake I hope he's not convicted.

Pathetic even if looking at Milnes side. milne has been charged. She hasnt been charged with anything. Anyway this was always going to happen and that is why it was a risk to our club when we eventually did pick him. Im more worried about supporters on both sides on Saturday night. Could get real ugly.

Not if you keep your mouth shut and ignore them. It doesn't need to get ugly.

It wont be me but that doesnt mean it wont be others. By the way it will hard for even the quite types not to say anything is the word rapist is used all through the game.

[markp]

It's presumption of innocence before the law.

If a teacher is accused of molesting a kid you think they should be allowed to keep teaching?

Two different things. Do you think Milne is stalking her?

Was in reference to some thinking the 'presumption of innocence' means charged murderers and rapists have to be allowed to continue on with their lives as before.

[bigcarl]

If a teacher is accused of molesting a kid you think they should be allowed to keep teaching?

In that case probably he/she should be stood down until the case is heard on the understanding that he/she is reinstated if proven not guilty. In this case, I doubt Milne is going to molest anyone on Saturday night.

What about the enshrined and sacrosanct 'presumption of innocence'?

It is a different situation entirely with different practicalities involved. The parents would withdraw their kids from the school if the teacher was allowed to continue teaching. The teacher himself/herself could be at risk from an angry parent.

Look I can see both sides of the argument, but the club has made a decision that I'm happy with.

[markp]

It is a different situation entirely with different practicalities involved. The parents would withdraw their kids from the school if the teacher was allowed to continue teaching. The teacher himself/herself could be at risk from an angry parent.

Look I can see both sides of the argument, but the club has made a decision that I'm happy with.

Yeah my point really is it's far from a cut and dry issue.

It's awful, and awfully messy.

I personally think on balance for the sake of sensitivity to the alleged victim and other victims of similar crimes, the club and its 'brand', the sponsors, the fans who wish to attend games safely, people who work at the game who wish to work in a safe environment, that he probably shouldn't play.

But as the cliche goes, no winners here.

[Cairnsman]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around this thing and I just can't work out how anyone could shout out anything towards Milney during this weeks match, positive or negative. I keep imagining possible scenarios regarding the crowds reaction to Milne at this weeks game and I keep coming up with silence. But maybe that's just how I think I will be when Milne is in play.

[freely]

Whoever it is on here has the tag 'it's hard to change heroes' - so true! But I don't think he should play either. Imagine if say Milney accused a Collingwood player of having raped him? Then nine years later that Collingwood player was finally charged. Would we think it was all right for him to just go out and play football?

I don't think so.

[maverick]

Yeah charged with 4 counts of rape vs playing a game of footy.... Obviously playing a game of footy is more important.

Just as obviously as him not being able to play footy would be akin to stoning him to death.

Don't get our point, is there one?

My point is that it's just a game and these are extremely serious charges, so I dont think he should be playing.

Thought you were saying that.
The flip side is he sits out for 18 months and is eventually found not guilty, how's that fair?
As P66 says, no winners here.

[maverick]

One thing we need to take into account is the strength of feeling from Milne that he thinks he is innocent.
If there was any wavering I don't reckon he would be playing, the reaction from the playing group initially is pointed.
He has certainly sucked a few in if he has lied all this time.

[satchmo]

Imagine if say Milney accused a Collingwood player of having raped him? Then nine years later that Collingwood player was finally charged. Would we think it was all right for him to just go out and play football?

I don't think so.

Imagine that someone is falsely accused of a crime and is subsequently denied the right to do the one thing that they do well. Would it be ok if he topped himself so that all those not directly involved wouldn't have to squirm?

I don't think so.

[Siposstar#2]

A more selfless player would have stood aside to save the club dramas.
Milne and selfless in the same sentence, now that is a paradox!

So you are saying that. If you were Milne and you were in the situation and you believe you are 100% innocent.
You would stand down from the game you love at the twilight of your career knowing well in your own head you're innocent??
Pfffft!!!!!!!

Look at it this way if you were charged with rape from 9 years ago and you believe your innocent would you quit doing your job??

[Sainternist]

Play him: massive negative publicity, club's image tarnished, sponsors shy away.

Don't play him: player unrest, AFLPA outrage, morale problems, a perception that the club has cut a great player loose in his time of need.

Terrible, terrible situation.

The winners: other clubs, the media, armchair moralists.

100% correct

[oh when the]

st kilda should have looked after the club brand.

[saintspremiers]

A more selfless player would have stood aside to save the club dramas.
Milne and selfless in the same sentence, now that is a paradox!

Fair point.

It's actually not anymore about guilt or innocence. He is not guilty of anything at the moment and that is a clear fact.
But he's tarnished the club's image and reputation - unfortunately that's a reality that can't be ignored.