Watters is a very poor coach!

[Con Gorozidis]

To those people who think SW is a crap coach

Will these words soothe you and make you feel better?

'The Saints have a great side - and if we had a better/different coach we could be challenging for a flag now'

(These words are totally untrue but it seems it is what you want to hear to make you feel better)

[plugger66]

If coaches arent that important why worry about game plans. Seems a waste of a year. Anyway freo werent near as ready to go as us when RL took over.

Of course they were. had been in the finals two years previously, then had a shocking injury run in 2011.

We had played finals three years in a row, but was going backwards in 2006 after three shocking years of injury.

We missed out in 2007 under Lyon wheile he repaired the list physically. Luckily got to the top four in 2008 and got flogged by Hawthorn and Geelong, then exploded in 2009.

Freo after one year under Lyon are actually further ahead then we were in lyons second year. They are third with their superstars out.

Freo were almost exactly the same as the Saints in 2007 when Lyon took over.

And who said coaches aren't that important. A good coach with a good list will do wonders. A good coach with a poor list cant do much. To be a premiership threat, you need the players, but you also need a good coach.

And that is what I have lept saying but it seems a couple on here dont get it. A good coach will improve any side but wont get any side into the finals. I dont agree on freo but its only an opinion.

[plugger66]

Players that have improved.

Geary, Dempster, Steven, Armitage, Gilbert (greatly improved on previous years) Wright Webster Ross

It's worth noting some of the kids wouldn't of got a game until around 2014-2015

How can you make that last comment. We played many first and second year players in RL final year and we were a much better side than we are now. every coach in the AFL would have played about as many kids as SW has this year in the same circumstances.

[ando051]

The Saints were very flat against Melbourne, not surprising with the week they had, they still won, does it really matter by how many goals? Without Fisher, Gilbert, Hayes, Milne, Schneider, Maister and missing this week as well, is Simpkins, it will be difficult for the Saints to make any impact on the game against Richmond. Regarding Watters and his coaching skills I think he will do okay. He has inherited the Saints problems from Ross Lyon, who never looked further than his nose, when it came to giving the young players a go and building on that. Watters is having to build and try and win games, and I think he will come through for us, but it all takes time. Hopefully fans will be patient and supportive of him.

[Wayne42]

The Saints were very flat against Melbourne, not surprising with the week they had, they still won, does it really matter by how many goals? Without Fisher, Gilbert, Hayes, Milne, Schneider, Maister and missing this week as well, is Simpkins, it will be difficult for the Saints to make any impact on the game against Richmond. Regarding Watters and his coaching skills I think he will do okay. He has inherited the Saints problems from Ross Lyon, who never looked further than his nose, when it came to giving the young players a go and building on that. Watters is having to build and try and win games, and I think he will come through for us, but it all takes time. Hopefully fans will be patient and supportive of him.

Good post, Watters is unfortunate to get his coaching gig at a club that is almost starting again in terms of building a Grand Final team....

[Bono]

A good coach wpuld be able to convey to the supporters what he is trying to do and what the agenda is. PreSeason Watters sat down with the senior players and tried to sell them the idea of geting recycled players in was what Sydney did to win a flag (remember, Lee is a recycled player - ex Crows rookie). Four weks later he then says we are rebuilding, in transition, refurbishing or what eer he tries to call it. Not only can he not coach, he also cant manage his playing group. Apart from the Collingwood match where they played Lyon-like ultra defensive footy, no match this year has had any resemblance of a game plan or style of play, except with their obsesion to run the captain ragged and into the ground.

[SainterK]

except with their obsesion to run the captain ragged and into the ground.

That behaviour is not exclusive to the current coach...

[skeptic]

The other thing you have to factor in with Watters atm is that we don't have (nor should we) a sense of his long term plan

We scoff at the idea of playing 3-4 small forwards in the 1 game... maybe this isn't strategy but a simple attempt at fast-tracking players... play them no matter what

Prior to this season, Stanley could barely play 5 games in a row w/o getting injured. Maybe moving him back was just as much about gradually reintroducing his body to the strain of AFL football as it is about necessity and that he is and has always been the forward successor.

Maybe the view with Hickey is that he will be the primary as Ben doesn't look good enough at rucking to be the head guy

I have been critical of ongoing selection of guys like Jones and Ray in what's in my eyes a team clearly rebuilding... maybe the coach is persevering with them to a) set an example to the youth and b) dispell thoughts that we're tanking

At the moment, we simply don't know what he has in store. This coming trade period + draft may well give us a good indication

[plugger66]

except with their obsesion to run the captain ragged and into the ground.

That behaviour is not exclusive to the current coach...

No it isnt because that is how Rooy plays his best footy and by a long way. Anyone who thinks otherwise must have missed his last 10 years of footy.

[spert]

It's probably a bit hard to implement games plans when you lose your two key defenders, Fisher (not fully fit when playing) and Gilbert for most of the season, and also key midfielder, Hayes, for most of the season (three experienced mature finals-experienced bodies)- these are the types of players who drive a game plan and help you gradually develop the younger players during games, rather than thrust the young guys straight into key roles and wonder why they can't play out four quarters. Watters has made some good moves lately- NDS floating around half back, Milera up on the wing last week, Dunnell showing good signs around the midfield/ half forward line, and generally seeing Stanley improve as a player under Watters. The cold hard facts are that it is hard to win games without a strong experienced midfielder, and strong mature backlines. I feel that we could win a few more games from here, but any coach who has a broken down playing list will struggle. We may need to recruit a couple of 24-25 y.o. midfielder types, but let's see what happens.

[bigcarl]

We scoff at the idea of playing 3-4 small forwards in the 1 game... maybe this isn't strategy but a simple attempt at fast-tracking players.

I scoff at what it does to our midfield rotations.

While our mids are struggling to run games out, you've had a Saad and/or Milera and/or TDL and Milne cooling their heels in the forward line waiting for a crumb.

Post-Milney I reckon every small forward must be able to take his turn in the rotation or he doesn't play.

I notice Milera lined up on the wing last week and played one of his best games, so maybe Watters has woken up to this problem

[Johnny Member]

I don't think Watters' number one focus is winning each week and having young players play their best every week.


I think it is about winning games each week and having them play their best in 2-3 years time.


In my opinion anyway, that is what the approach should be and I suspect that it is.

[Dis Believer]

Guys like Ray get played becuase they are fairly decent AFL footballers. Guys like Jones get played because you simply can't field a VFL team plus Roo and expect development. We cannot simply flood the team with 18 years olds. I suspect there is a maximum number of first/second year players they want in at once, and to accomplish this and get senior games into the kids means you have to rotate them through. This also plays havoc with having a settled team and game plan that everyone knows their role within.

We all heard at the start of the year that SW values versatility. Everyone seemed to agree that it was a desirable trait to have, but those knocking the coach now seemed to forget that to have versatility the kids will have to be played in a variety of roles to gain the experience required. And that will mean mistakes and some on field pain.

As an example, everyone is assuming Stanley is pegged as a permanent key defender - who knows? That may be the plan, or that may be a temporary opportunity to fill a need for the year until we recruit the KPD we clearly have to get, whilst adding a defensive side to Stanley's game with a view to him playing forward next year, and being available as a swingman if needed.

If in three years we end up with a senior list of two KPF's, two KPD''s, half a dozen tall to mid sized guys that can play either end and 15 to 20 mids/flankers that can pay forward, back or on-ball we will all be pretty satisfied. The price to get there is a few more losses now and the time required for the guys to develop those capacities and abilities.

I think Watter's will prove to be a VERY good coach, and I think that the condition he will one day leave the club in will be something we will thank him for in the future. I think he is a very strong chance to be our second premiership coach. Media performance can be learned. A cool, analytical mind and controlled demeanour are things you either have or you don't. SW has them in spades.

DOn't get caught up in reactionary short term thinking. Think big picture, and remember that big picture thinking doesn't bring instant rewards. Expect a crap year next year too, bottom 6 would be my guess. Also expect to recruit mids with speed and footskills and inside/outside games.

[bigcarl]

I think Watter's will prove to be a VERY good coach, and I think that the condition he will one day leave the club in will be something we will thank him for in the future

I'm yet to be convinced but I do have an open mind on it. I can recall thinking both GT and Ross couldn't coach.

[Scollop]

Guys like Ray get played becuase they are fairly decent AFL footballers. Guys like Jones get played because you simply can't field a VFL team plus Roo and expect development. We cannot simply flood the team with 18 years olds. I suspect there is a maximum number of first/second year players they want in at once, and to accomplish this and get senior games into the kids means you have to rotate them through. This also plays havoc with having a settled team and game plan that everyone knows their role within.

We all heard at the start of the year that SW values versatility. Everyone seemed to agree that it was a desirable trait to have, but those knocking the coach now seemed to forget that to have versatility the kids will have to be played in a variety of roles to gain the experience required. And that will mean mistakes and some on field pain.

As an example, everyone is assuming Stanley is pegged as a permanent key defender - who knows? That may be the plan, or that may be a temporary opportunity to fill a need for the year until we recruit the KPD we clearly have to get, whilst adding a defensive side to Stanley's game with a view to him playing forward next year, and being available as a swingman if needed.

If in three years we end up with a senior list of two KPF's, two KPD''s, half a dozen tall to mid sized guys that can play either end and 15 to 20 mids/flankers that can pay forward, back or on-ball we will all be pretty satisfied. The price to get there is a few more losses now and the time required for the guys to develop those capacities and abilities.

I think Watter's will prove to be a VERY good coach, and I think that the condition he will one day leave the club in will be something we will thank him for in the future. I think he is a very strong chance to be our second premiership coach. Media performance can be learned. A cool, analytical mind and controlled demeanour are things you either have or you don't. SW has them in spades.

DOn't get caught up in reactionary short term thinking. Think big picture, and remember that big picture thinking doesn't bring instant rewards. Expect a crap year next year too, bottom 6 would be my guess. Also expect to recruit mids with speed and footskills and inside/outside games.

Good post. I agree Watter's will prove to be a VERY good coach.

The only thing that will derail a resurgence in our rise will be if the board don't back the footy department 100%. With maturity I believe that the youngsters will flourish. Watters and Pelchen will make some mistakes along the way but I reckon they can envision a blueprint and they just need to develop the Saints 2016 team.

Recent history and lessons can be learned from the Essendon FC where a lot of player development occurred under Knights. Lloyd and other senior players had their noses out of joint and were intent on getting rid of him. I doubt that he would've been ousted if they didn't have a dream team coaching panel waiting in the wings and some explayers and and other Knights haters planning the coup.

As far as the playing list was concerned Matty Knights had an eye on a top 4 side and he definitely found some beauties. Ryder, Carlisle, Pears, Hurley, Hocking, Hardingham, Hooker, Crameri, Zaharakis, Bellchambers, and even the emergence of Watson and perhaps the ultimate decision to recruit Heppell all happened under Knights.

[Con Gorozidis]

I agree scollop
Board need to come out and say - we are building a team for 2016!
Let it rip!

[SaintPav]

I agree scollop
Board need to come out and say - we are building a team for 2016!
Let it rip!

No they don't need to say that at all becuase internally they should already know it and have plans etc in place.

In the meantime, they need demonstrate that they are competive and they are having a go week in and week out. Otherwise, it's called tanking.

[tony74]

Guys like Ray get played becuase they are fairly decent AFL footballers. Guys like Jones get played because you simply can't field a VFL team plus Roo and expect development. We cannot simply flood the team with 18 years olds. I suspect there is a maximum number of first/second year players they want in at once, and to accomplish this and get senior games into the kids means you have to rotate them through. This also plays havoc with having a settled team and game plan that everyone knows their role within.

We all heard at the start of the year that SW values versatility. Everyone seemed to agree that it was a desirable trait to have, but those knocking the coach now seemed to forget that to have versatility the kids will have to be played in a variety of roles to gain the experience required. And that will mean mistakes and some on field pain.

As an example, everyone is assuming Stanley is pegged as a permanent key defender - who knows? That may be the plan, or that may be a temporary opportunity to fill a need for the year until we recruit the KPD we clearly have to get, whilst adding a defensive side to Stanley's game with a view to him playing forward next year, and being available as a swingman if needed.

If in three years we end up with a senior list of two KPF's, two KPD''s, half a dozen tall to mid sized guys that can play either end and 15 to 20 mids/flankers that can pay forward, back or on-ball we will all be pretty satisfied. The price to get there is a few more losses now and the time required for the guys to develop those capacities and abilities.

I think Watter's will prove to be a VERY good coach, and I think that the condition he will one day leave the club in will be something we will thank him for in the future. I think he is a very strong chance to be our second premiership coach. Media performance can be learned. A cool, analytical mind and controlled demeanour are things you either have or you don't. SW has them in spades.

DOn't get caught up in reactionary short term thinking. Think big picture, and remember that big picture thinking doesn't bring instant rewards. Expect a crap year next year too, bottom 6 would be my guess. Also expect to recruit mids with speed and footskills and inside/outside games.

I agree whole heatedly. Obviously I think you will see some movement in the player squad in 2014, but dont be surprised if there is some major changes in the admin and operation sections of the club next year.