Watters is a very poor coach!

[SaintPav]

Tanked perfectly against WC.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

the Lyon game plan wins games no doubt , it works on the premiss of restricting the oppersitiion and then rolling the dice to grab the edge and win the game at some point ... the problem is in finals situations you will come up against a team as desperate as you are and in the case of our two grand final losses its the lack of genuine game winners amongst our role players that cost us the game ... its the same as the swans except last year they had that genuine game winner as well as thier role players in our grand finals the guys who could be game winners were pretty well held (exception being the draw when the stars almost lined up perfectly for us )

[Con Gorozidis]

the Lyon game plan wins games no doubt , it works on the premiss of restricting the oppersitiion and then rolling the dice to grab the edge and win the game at some point ... the problem is in finals situations you will come up against a team as desperate as you are and in the case of our two grand final losses its the lack of genuine game winners amongst our role players that cost us the game ... its the same as the swans except last year they had that genuine game winner as well as thier role players in our grand finals the guys who could be game winners were pretty well held (exception being the draw when the stars almost lined up perfectly for us )

Agree.
Freo will get very very close. But can they win the flag? I don't think so. I suspect they will get very close and fall disappointingly short in the final two weeks of September.
Still its a nice ride up until then!

[plugger66]

the Lyon game plan wins games no doubt , it works on the premiss of restricting the oppersitiion and then rolling the dice to grab the edge and win the game at some point ... the problem is in finals situations you will come up against a team as desperate as you are and in the case of our two grand final losses its the lack of genuine game winners amongst our role players that cost us the game ... its the same as the swans except last year they had that genuine game winner as well as thier role players in our grand finals the guys who could be game winners were pretty well held (exception being the draw when the stars almost lined up perfectly for us )

You could also argue that the game plan kept us in the game against the Pies as most sides would have been blown away in the first half and have had no hope of coming back. His game plan and role players didnt seem like the reason we lost finals. In most cases we won we should have and lost when we should have.

[Con Gorozidis]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-06-15/y ... s-in-talks

It is understood Webster has already signed with the Saints, with the new deal yet to be announced. Newnes is committed to reaching an agreement with the club.

Should the new deals be confirmed, St Kilda will have retained its top four selections from the 2011 NAB AFL Draft, with injured forward Daniel Markworth contracted until the end of 2014.

That represents the end of a wasteful draft period between 2006 and 2010 that set the club back on-field.
Watters recently said the Saints had the AFL's "worst retention rate from a recruitment point of view if you look at what we've recruited in that time and what remains at the club".

Of the 24 players drafted between 2006 and 2010 at the NAB AFL Draft, only six remain on the list (Jamie Cripps and Tom Lynch are with other AFL clubs after being traded).

When trade periods and rookie drafts are included, just 12 players recruited during that period are still on the list

[st_Trav_ofWA]

the Lyon game plan wins games no doubt , it works on the premiss of restricting the oppersitiion and then rolling the dice to grab the edge and win the game at some point ... the problem is in finals situations you will come up against a team as desperate as you are and in the case of our two grand final losses its the lack of genuine game winners amongst our role players that cost us the game ... its the same as the swans except last year they had that genuine game winner as well as thier role players in our grand finals the guys who could be game winners were pretty well held (exception being the draw when the stars almost lined up perfectly for us )

Agree.
Freo will get very very close. But can they win the flag? I don't think so. I suspect they will get very close and fall disappointingly short in the final two weeks of September.
Still its a nice ride up until then!

i think we had the game winners its just they were well held ... honestly i think potentially Freo have more game winners so if put in the same situation i feel they may have that extra 1% to maybe pull off the win we couldnt under lyon ... time will tell

[st_Trav_ofWA]

the Lyon game plan wins games no doubt , it works on the premiss of restricting the oppersitiion and then rolling the dice to grab the edge and win the game at some point ... the problem is in finals situations you will come up against a team as desperate as you are and in the case of our two grand final losses its the lack of genuine game winners amongst our role players that cost us the game ... its the same as the swans except last year they had that genuine game winner as well as thier role players in our grand finals the guys who could be game winners were pretty well held (exception being the draw when the stars almost lined up perfectly for us )

You could also argue that the game plan kept us in the game against the Pies as most sides would have been blown away in the first half and have had no hope of coming back. His game plan and role players didnt seem like the reason we lost finals. In most cases we won we should have and lost when we should have.

agree totally , it was the game plan that got us within a sniff of pulling of the win in 2010 as i said in the drawn grand final the mix was almost perfect our game winners BJ and Lenny were playing exceptionally well and the role players were doing their bit and it almost got us over the line ... in 2009 the role players did their job but we were left lacking in getting that one game breaker where Geelong had two or three who were able to get them over the line ....

the ross lyon game plan can get a team very very far in this comp , it just needs that little bit extra to get the job done , just like the swans did last year ... fact is grand finals are always hard to win the lock down game Ross employs puts you at least in striking distance of getting the win

[gringo]

Thommo must have ben a very good coach too, he got us close as well. Ross and Watters got a similar result with the same list- he got 12 wins with pretty much the same list but playing Steven and armo and stanley over a few ordinary guys like Polo and Peake. !2 win in his first year would usually have seen him in finals.

[joffaboy]

[quote="st_Trav_ofWA... in 2009 the role players did their job but we were left lacking in getting that one game breaker where Geelong had two or three who were able to get them over the line ....

[/quote]

7.7 to 7.1 at HT even 10.4 or 11.3 and we win the flag 2009.

Cant blame Lyon for the teams pathetic kicking GF day 2009.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

Thommo must have ben a very good coach too, he got us close as well. Ross and Watters got a similar result with the same list- he got 12 wins with pretty much the same list but playing Steven and armo and stanley over a few ordinary guys like Polo and Peake. !2 win in his first year would usually have seen him in finals.

thommo was a differant coach again , in my opinion he used the players strenghts to win the game and while we had a blessed run in 2004 it worked wonderfully , problem was it was more of a case of everything needing to alighn for it to work and when something went off course we got found out hence why when the pressure of the prelim was on and things didnt go to plan he was tactically out coached by both Choco (who went on to coach his team to a flag) and Roo's (who also went on to coach his team to a flag) ...

in an ideal world you would want a mutant version of GT and Lyon... GT i think would agree had he had someone like Lyon in the box with him we may have had a flag in his era

[st_Trav_ofWA]

7.7 to 7.1 at HT even 10.4 or 11.3 and we win the flag 2009.

Cant blame Lyon for the teams pathetic kicking GF day 2009.

i dont think i did blame Lyon for that ... i think that highlights my point even more so - the fact our game winners were spraying shots due to the pressure or percieved pressure from the geelong players is where the plan didn go to plan for us... had we had been able to get one of Milne Schnieds or Roo take control of the game then we prob would have won but they didnt

[Con Gorozidis]

were the Pies in 2010 really that good?

anyway - imho - our list profile is so bad - and our recruiment and development was so poor during 2006-2010 - that Leigh Matthews and Norm Smith love child would not do any better with our current squad.
People need to stop looking at the 'names' on the list.
Our core 'prime' group (23-28/50-150 games) is atrocious - our core/prime group in 2009 (23-28/50-150 games) was awesome.
it really is that simple im afraid.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

were the Pies in 2010 really that good?

they were ripe for the picking thats for sure ... and for a moment we almost did it ... problem is i think we burnt all our tickets in game one by the time game two came we couldnt even get the role players to play their usual role let alone find a game winner hence we were never in the game

[plugger66]

were the Pies in 2010 really that good?

Yes. Well against us except for the first GF. They doubled our score in 2 of the 3 games we played them. They won all their finals by nearly 10 goals a game. The more you look at the first GF the more you realise what a great effort it was by us.

[ShanghaiSaint]

7 years in coaching is a long time without success, and 8-9 years is even longer! If he doesn't win the flag in the next year or two - then he'll be considered a big failure like hundreds before him.

But not so big a failure as those many coaches who never even got to the finals, or the majority who never coached in even one Grand Final.

Garry Ayres anyone?

GA would make a good coach IMo is there any reason he's on the outs with the ALF?

[plugger66]

But not so big a failure as those many coaches who never even got to the finals, or the majority who never coached in even one Grand Final.

Garry Ayres anyone?

GA would make a good coach IMo is there any reason he's on the outs with the ALF?

Alians have never liked Ayres.

[Johnny Member]

were the Pies in 2010 really that good?

Yes. Well against us except for the first GF. They doubled our score in 2 of the 3 games we played them. They won all their finals by nearly 10 goals a game. The more you look at the first GF the more you realise what a great effort it was by us.

At 3/4 time they'd had 20 scoring shots to 12.


I think it was good fortune than great effort that kept us in that one.

[plugger66]

were the Pies in 2010 really that good?

Yes. Well against us except for the first GF. They doubled our score in 2 of the 3 games we played them. They won all their finals by nearly 10 goals a game. The more you look at the first GF the more you realise what a great effort it was by us.

At 3/4 time they'd had 20 scoring shots to 12.


I think it was good fortune than great effort that kept us in that one.

Game plan also helped. Most sides would have been blown out of the water. Obviously you think it was good fortune by Geelong in 2009 as well.

[Johnny Member]

7.7 to 7.1 at HT even 10.4 or 11.3 and we win the flag 2009.

Cant blame Lyon for the teams pathetic kicking GF day 2009.

i dont think i did blame Lyon for that ... i think that highlights my point even more so - the fact our game winners were spraying shots due to the pressure or percieved pressure from the geelong players is where the plan didn go to plan for us... had we had been able to get one of Milne Schnieds or Roo take control of the game then we prob would have won but they didnt

The problem with Lyon that day was his directive late in the game to bomb it in to the forward line.

Cost us a flag.

He lost his nerve and panicked with that directive, and it cost us the flag.

[ShanghaiSaint]

were the Pies in 2010 really that good?

Yes. Well against us except for the first GF. They doubled our score in 2 of the 3 games we played them. They won all their finals by nearly 10 goals a game. The more you look at the first GF the more you realise what a great effort it was by us.

At 3/4 time they'd had 20 scoring shots to 12.


I think it was good fortune than great effort that kept us in that one.

no way that goal outside 50 by Lenny and Goddard specy and goal really lifted the team and got them thinking they could do it. if anything that day the pies where nervous as hell.

[Johnny Member]

Game plan also helped. Most sides would have been blown out of the water. Obviously you think it was good fortune by Geelong in 2009 as well.

Well not really. We had 3 more scoring shots than Geelong - but we had 4 rushed behinds in that. So I think the theory that bad kicking cost us that day is a bit flawed.

[Johnny Member]

no way that goal outside 50 by Lenny and Goddard specy and goal really lifted the team and got them thinking they could do it. if anything that day the pies where nervous as hell.

It's much easier to think you can do it when you're 8 points down instead of 8 goals down though.

[plugger66]

7.7 to 7.1 at HT even 10.4 or 11.3 and we win the flag 2009.

Cant blame Lyon for the teams pathetic kicking GF day 2009.

i dont think i did blame Lyon for that ... i think that highlights my point even more so - the fact our game winners were spraying shots due to the pressure or percieved pressure from the geelong players is where the plan didn go to plan for us... had we had been able to get one of Milne Schnieds or Roo take control of the game then we prob would have won but they didnt

The problem with Lyon that day was his directive late in the game to bomb it in to the forward line.

Cost us a flag.

He lost his nerve and panicked with that directive, and it cost us the flag.

So RL cost us that game but we were lucky against the pies because of poor kicking. Yep you make a hell of a lot of sense. Maybe you need to look at his coaching through 2 eyes.

[Mr Magic]

were the Pies in 2010 really that good?

Yes. Well against us except for the first GF. They doubled our score in 2 of the 3 games we played them. They won all their finals by nearly 10 goals a game. The more you look at the first GF the more you realise what a great effort it was by us.

At 3/4 time they'd had 20 scoring shots to 12.


I think it was good fortune than great effort that kept us in that one.

I seem to recall that quite a number of their behinds were our 'rushes' in the 2nd quarter, so I think that scoring shots disparity is a touch misleading.

I cannot speak for others but I telephoned my Filth supporting cousin at half time and told him that the 24 point lead wasn't enough.
I figured we couldn't play any worse than we did in that second quarter and they hadn't been able to put us away.
A bit similar to 2009 when we outplayed Geelong everywhere but on the scoreboard in the first half.

[Mr Magic]

Anybody else getting a feeling of deja vu?
Some of these posts are eerily resembling the musings of the Fox.