Go on defend that umpiring

[back to the junction]

Is that your intelligent reply? Do you know the meaning of APATHY?

[SainterJ]

I actually started a free kick spreadsheet after round 3 when in our 50+ win over GWS free kick count was 14 to 27 against us.

And anyone can look at umpiring decisions and find some case for the decision but I challenge anyone to look at that last quarter through Sainters eyes and not be furious beyond belief. First thought this morning was blind fury at the umpires.

I was however so pleased to hear the media had finally picked it up. I feel I am always banging on about the umpires and believe they have their own Agenda, and wonder about my rose colored glasses, but today the stats and media are backing me up.

AFL it's time you investigated. Go back to that infamous Fremantle game and the umpire plane scandal. That'd be a fair.

Oh and by the way HOW ABOUT MAKING IT UP TO US

[Teflon]

http://www.perthnow.com.au/sport/afl/if ... 6661289822


if anyones interested?

ABOUT TIME IT GOT SOME ATTENTION

DO SOMETHING YOU MAGGOTTS

[saintbrat]

http://m.couriermail.com.au/sport/afl/s ... 6661467808

[Bernard Shakey]

Several times in this thread posters have referred to the Weagles getting 7 goals from frees.

Stats in The Age say they got 3 from frees and we got one.

Those 3 are from the kick directly from the free... The 5,6 or 7 can be attributed to a free one or two possessions before the goal... In that sense, the umps had 3 goals, 4 goal assists..

So now they didn't get 7 goals from frees, but 3 goals and 4 goal assists and some of these goal assists were a couple of possies before the actual goal?
Some serious problems with the definition of goals and goal assists here. People are just making it up as they go.
Let's just face facts, they got 3 goals from frees and we got one.

[Buckets]

Several times in this thread posters have referred to the Weagles getting 7 goals from frees.

Stats in The Age say they got 3 from frees and we got one.

Those 3 are from the kick directly from the free... The 5,6 or 7 can be attributed to a free one or two possessions before the goal... In that sense, the umps had 3 goals, 4 goal assists..

So now they didn't get 7 goals from frees, but 3 goals and 4 goal assists and some of these goal assists were a couple of possies before the actual goal?
Some serious problems with the definition of goals and goal assists here. People are just making it up as they go.
Let's just face facts, they got 3 goals from frees and we got one.

I would actually say at least 5 of those came directly as a result of free kicks inside their forward 50

[kalsaint]

Bad umpiring aside, we still had two chances to ice the game.

A bit like guns don't kill people people kill people. I hate the idea teams have to be better so the umpires don't ruin their chances why not just do the job properly?

I hear you, but in the same argument, why couldn't one of our more experienced players convert what should have been converted? For mine, that's their job! But, they didn't, they made mistakes, as did the umpires.

I agree with Sydney here. Think 2009 Grand Final. Simple shots drilled meant one Grand Final won. We have got to finish these sorts of games. I don't know a club that fritters away opportunities in key game as well as the Saints. Not just this years brand either.

[Teflon]

Several times in this thread posters have referred to the Weagles getting 7 goals from frees.

Stats in The Age say they got 3 from frees and we got one.

Those 3 are from the kick directly from the free... The 5,6 or 7 can be attributed to a free one or two possessions before the goal... In that sense, the umps had 3 goals, 4 goal assists..

So now they didn't get 7 goals from frees, but 3 goals and 4 goal assists and some of these goal assists were a couple of possies before the actual goal?
Some serious problems with the definition of goals and goal assists here. People are just making it up as they go.
Let's just face facts, they got 3 goals from frees and we got one.

Did they need any more to get them over the line?

This is moot - it's all about consistency , where the frees are paid and of course the ones that aren't paid. We were shafted massively in this game no amount of spin alters that

[St. Luke]

Vladimir Demetriou wants the Eagles through into the finals, and what Vladimir wants, Vladimir gets! Glad to see the Saints have called for some official clarity on the umpiring decisions that were made, particularly in that last quarter.

I'm also sure North Melbourne have got a similar bone to pick.

[spert]

Shocking umpiring, and really the WCE should have got a free at one stage in the game when Darling got clearly infringed in front of goal, but thank god they didn't- and we know anyway that we were screwed by these sub-standard umpires.

[joffaboy]

http://m.couriermail.com.au/sport/afl/s ... 6661467808

Obviously the Saints football department and coach Scott Watters only watches with one eye, are biased, and should get on their meds. Obviously they dont know the rules and have issues.

Isn't that right P66?

We are all wrong including the St.Kilda football dept, and the free kick differential stats and you and the umpires and Jeff Geischen are all correct.

Huey, Duey, and Shuey at the WCE dont play for frees, Priddis didn,t try to fend off Dempster, drop the ball, before getting a free kick for in the back, Butler didn't dive on the ball 10 metres out from goal, drag it in, didn't get it out and it was a ball up, and Saad didn't get taken high, ridden into the ground and then WAS holding the ball.

Isn't that right P66?

In two games of football we got 0 frees in one qtr and one free in the last on Sunday (which was OOF). That means 14 free kicks to zero from umpire decisions in a half of football. But that didn't happen did it P66.

We are all deluded and you are the only one that knows anything about umpiring and the rules. Oh you and Kevin Bartlett.

Isn't that right P66?

Oh thats right P66 has gone missing since the travesty of Sunday night. Even he cant defend what is happening to St.Kilda at the hands of these incompetent, or god forbid, worse, fools known as AFL umpires.

[SainterK]

Crappy umpires = crappy umpiring.

[dragit]

Both of the Priddis goals were rough decisions… the Cox one gets paid very rarely, a ruck grapple in front of goals.

Been a bad year for us so far.

[SainterK]

Both of the Priddis goals were rough decisions… the Cox one gets paid very rarely, a ruck grapple in front of goals.

Been a bad year for us so far.

Yes but we're playing poor teams mostly, at bad time slots, us ourselves not really up there anymore.

Still think the quality of umpiring falls away considerably down the umpiring chain, think you'd find the better umpiring that everyone is applauding are from the Friday/Saturday night games, where the AFL knows the football world is watching.

That's also why people rave about grand final umpiring, but it isn't just the best teams, it's the best umpires.

[SaintJohn1956]

For what it's worth I was at the gane and was as angry as anyone during the game. I watched the game again next day and I thought on reflection the umpiring wasn't as bad as I thought. The decision against Saad was a bad one, the in the back to Priddis was very iffy, the free kick to Hurn when he dropped the ball was just the umpire guessing because he couldn't have seen anything - like the free kick to O'Brien last year. The free to Cox was probably there but I agree so inconsistent when you can see one ruckman grab the other and throw him out of the way and it's play on to then pay that. The free to Priddis when Roberton slapped in the face had to be paid. On the other hand the free against Darling for the Roberton in the back was a mistake and he was probably stiff not to get some other frees. The most annoying thing I thought was the non paying of incorrect disposal when West Coast were tackled - the only one payed was against (Newnes?) when he actually kicked the ball. When I saw that we didn't get one free kick in the 2nd quarter at the game I was surprised but looking at it I couldn't see any that were missed really - apart from the tackles but the umpires have hardly paid those all year but don't know why.

[howlinwolf]

I think you'll find the rule of incorrect disposal when tackled isn't what it used to be.
The old rule was you had dispose by hand or foot and if you dropped it you were pinged.
I believe now, as long as you are making an attempt to get rid of it while being tackled it's o.k.
I stand to be corrected

[spert]

Both of the Priddis goals were rough decisions… the Cox one gets paid very rarely, a ruck grapple in front of goals.

Been a bad year for us so far.

I think Stanley gave away a similar free in front of goals in a game earlier this season..Might be wrong though.

[Solar]

have a look at the priddis free in the herald sun. Perfect example on why the eagles are cheating and are allowed to. It's a blight to the game.

Photo one shows priddis fending off (high and means he had prior opportunity with arm free). It is a bear hug.

Next photo shows priddis on his stomach with dempster rolled to the side.

Now this means priddis went of of his way to roll to the front. The tackler did not create this situation. This action was to get the free kick. Secondly the tackler aactually roles to the side, thus not actually getting into his back.

The only conclusion is

1. Should have been a high fend off (free)
2. Should have been holding the ball (prior opportunity)
3. Priddis actively turned 90 degrees to try and get a in the back. (this is completely against the spirit of the game, was not the reason the free kick was brought in. Similar to diving and throwing your head back)
4. Dempster did not fall into his back (as they had trained for in the last month, see milnes comments)

Not only did the umpire get this wrong three times the player actively attempted to cheat outside the spirit of the game.

I am expected to stump up money to watch a game that allows cheating, be it drugs or staging for frees. Not happy about the standard of umpiring but disgusted about how far AFL players are going to win a match.

Will personally boycott any WCE games and I know this will do nothing but I am really struggling to find any enjoyment in what was once a great game.

[markp]

Crappy umpires = crappy umpiring.

Is the pool of 'talent' really that shallow?

[Solar]

Crappy umpires = crappy umpiring.

Is the pool of 'talent' really that shallow?

Isn't the bigger issue that a group of players a cheating the rules and are being allowed to get away with it. I get frustrated when they are bad but the umpires are being forced to give frees to players who are playing outside the spirit of the game. It's a blight on the game

[dragit]

Crappy umpires = crappy umpiring.

Is the pool of 'talent' really that shallow?

& surely they should be spreading the good ones over all games, not 3 good ones for friday night & 3 plonkers for sunday arvo.

[markp]

I think AD summed it up best....

AFL CEO Andrew Demetriou an outspoken defender of Gieschen was qouted as saying "Gieschen's performance as Director of Umpires is of the same standard he brought to footscray as a player and then as coach of the Richmond Football club"

Probably true, sadly.

And he's been in the job since 1999.

It's one job I'd like to see GT get!

[Life Long Saint]

This crop of AFL umpires are seriously the most gullible group associated with sport since the Washington Generals who used to play the Harlem Globetrotters all over the world.
They keep getting sucked in by the same stooges running the same plays time after time.
Linsday Thomas, Matt Priddis, Ashton Hams, the Selwood duckers...you name it, they're sucked in by it.

[SaintWal]

Firstly, I apologise to buckets for my bad prediction before the game on Sunday. Given that the free kick count over the weekend was down I predicted that WCE would be advantaged by the umpires 18 to 12. I had the ratio right just not the numbers.
Secondly, KB gives me the absolute s***s. He continually has banged on about missed opportunities and it is not the umpiring. We get that, yes we should have won off our own boot. Personally I was rapt that the guys put in a great effort and in the long run we are destined to get an early draft pick. Win Win. KB is missing the point completely and when you break down the figures it becomes obviously lopsided. KB reiterated today that we are only 4 free kicks per games worse off on the ledger. In my books that can be four goals, depending where you get the frees.
So our stats as everyone knows is
For Against Games AV per game difference
184 229 11 4.09

Now Take out the only two games we have had more free kicks
FOr Against Games AV per game difference
134 192 9 6.44

6.44 per game average in the other games. There are players in the competition who struggle to get that many possessions per week.

If 1/3 of these are in the opposition forward line and the kicking average is about 60-65% for goal we are 1 - 1.1/2 goals down before we even get started. Now that is what a lopsided free kick tally can do.

[samuraisaint]

[]Firstly, Collingwood hasn't given up Victoria park and Essendon still has windy hill. They just train in other areas. No problem at all for the Saints to be looking for supporters from the Seaford or Mount Martha area. And training at Seaford. But it would be nice to be able to go to a social club and have a meal and catch up with a few mates. But driving two hours to Seaford isn't my cup of tea either. The players are there for a short period of time, supporters can be there through generations.
No wonder we have dropped 10,000 members, where do you think they went? Melbourne has no home either and look how they are travelling? Do we want to end up like them? We were told if we moved to Moorabbin that we would get the kids following us from that area, we were told moving to Waverley would be the best thing ever and we would get supporters from there, as well as Tassie and now New Zealand. I lived in Eltham, why don't the Saints go out there, they produce children out there. Seaford, you have got to be joking? When my grandparents followed the club we were at the junction oval, we were Stkilda. For 90 YEARS? The future of our club are the supporters. I don't care what McEvoy thinks, after he retires he is going to live in Stawell. Keep Seaford as a training facility, no problems, build a gym, a restaurant, social club so we all have somewhere CENTRAL to go after a game at the Junction. instead of giving our hard earned to the Victory Room. Saints supporters are not just from Seaford, Franks ton or Mount Martha. There are bus loads of paid up members that come to the games from all over Victoria. Anyway YOU HAVE THE STATISTICS to say they are having more children that any other place in Melbourne? Must be a fun town?[/quote]

Mate - Who said I have the statistics? I know there are more kids in Seaford than Moorabbin because there are more kids at training when I visit Seaford than when I watched training at Moorabbin - for about thirty years I might add. I'm a third generation St Kilda supporter. My kids are fourth generation. My Dad was a bartender at the Social Club at the Junction Oval and my Uncle worked at the club as one of the stewards at Moorabbin when Jeans and Patto were our coaches, so I don't require the tradition lecture, thanks.
Last time I looked we played at the Docklands - about six kilometers from St Kilda - how far is Moorabbin from St Kilda again? I don't know exactly what your point even is as I have already said that the Junction was a fantastic place to watch the footy, as was Moorabbin. And we haven't left Moorabbin completely either. I don't mind if we play some games in NZ if we make a little money and the carry on effect is that we become succesful again. We played in a Grand Final a few years after moving our games to Waverley, and then we improved a little more when we moved to the Docklands. I would have preferred we stayed at Moorabbin actually, but we didn't and the joint was falling down. Kingston/Moorabbin Council never looked after us in the same way that Geelong and a few other councils (like Essendon's) look after them. Essendon council charge Essendon 1 dollar a year rent or something! No wonder they are going so well. We didn't drop 10,000 members because we started training at Seaford either. The reasons are far more complex than that.