Is roo exempt from being told off?

[SainterK]

Because I'd be playing him his continual dummy spits last night, including when Rhys decided it was time he stood up to he counted, and he had a whinge.

You can pay out on the likes of Saad and Siposs as much as you like, but lets not pretend Nick and Milne are "mentoring" them with their current attitudes.

Will be lucky to be on the end of anything if these guys dont get a bit of the hungry out of their game.

There. Got that out....

[plugger66]

They arent kids. I reckon if you spoke to them today they wouldnt even remember any incidents.

[Sainterman]

I think Roo was right in being frustrated with Stanley when he had his shot from 55m out. It is fine to take responsibility as Rhys did, but he didn't even bother to look what else was on offer. Rhys should have at least turned around so he had the option of giving it off to someone who might have had a better chance to kick the goal. I'd say that was the problem rather than Roo just being "hungry".

[Cairnsman]

They arent kids. I reckon if you spoke to them today they wouldnt even remember any incidents.

They're not kids but strictly speaking but they are gen Y and they can be effected significantly by criticism that isn't heavily sugar coated and delivered in a soft and cuddly.

[BringBackMadDog]

they are grown men paid huge dollars, if they stuff up they get sprayed, its plain and simple. Sippa's kick was a disgrace, he kicked to Saad one out in the pocket when he had Roo leading straight at him with a 5 metre gap on his opponent.

[gringo]

I think Roo was right in being frustrated with Stanley when he had his shot from 55m out. It is fine to take responsibility as Rhys did, but he didn't even bother to look what else was on offer. Rhys should have at least turned around so he had the option of giving it off to someone who might have had a better chance to kick the goal. I'd say that was the problem rather than Roo just being "hungry".

If he'd chipped it in and turned over the ball spotting up a crowded in NR we would have thought he was as weak as piss. Did the right thing even if it pissed off Rooey.

[maverick]

not what he did, but how he did it.
All for taking responsibility, as Jimmy W did just before him, but he did the team thing first.
They will only improve playing as a team.
Bottom teams play as individuals.

[paddy]

Roo is demanding excellence....

isn't that why we still have him out there?

He leads by example, and players should know that they will cop a spray if they are not playing for the team

[sunsaint]

I called it during the match thread - Roo's body language was shocking
I know he works his butt off, and yes he is the FF and captain, but he needs an attitude adjustment if he wants to lead and inspire kids
I noticed a lot of angry head shaking - you could almost hear the tsk tsk

[GRAMophone]

I doubt he's exempt - hope not. It's very irritating to see him demanding the ball when in poor position or well covered. I actually didn't notice Roo last night doing that. Was more annoyed at S Fisher who's body language was not helpful to the defenders around him.Also had a go at Rhys for taking a long shot & not looking for other options. I thought it was a reasonable decision by Rhys. He's a long and fairly accurate kick. Showed some courage to back himself.

[joffaboy]

Yes he is exempt.

Absolute St.Kilda champion who was busting his guts last night in attack and defense.

Deep into qtr 4 he was chasing his opponent as hard as if it was in the first minute of the game despite the team being thumped and being down by 10 goals.

He is the captain, a champion 5 time B&F, inspirational, and a Saints great.

If the team put in half his efforts we would be in much better shape.

[sunsaint]

Yes he is exempt.

Absolute St.Kilda champion who was busting his guts last night in attack and defense.

Deep into qtr 4 he was chasing his opponent as hard as if it was in the first minute of the game despite the team being thumped and being down by 10 goals.

He is the captain, a champion 5 time B&F, inspirational, and a Saints great.

If the team put in half his efforts we would be in much better shape.

its not a question of effort or record - that is unquestionable
it is a query on his leadership/attitude

[spert]

I would be spitting the dummy if I continually made an effort to get clear in good position and find the ball instead being kicked to a contest or into no-mans land. Undisciplined football- coach issue.

[Mr Magic]

Because I'd be playing him his continual dummy spits last night, including when Rhys decided it was time he stood up to he counted, and he had a whinge.

You can pay out on the likes of Saad and Siposs as much as you like, but lets not pretend Nick and Milne are "mentoring" them with their current attitudes.

Will be lucky to be on the end of anything if these guys dont get a bit of the hungry out of their game.

There. Got that out....

K I'm wondering if your view on this is coloured by your overall negative view of Roo's leadership qualities?
You have been 'down' on him for some time now in regards to this area, and it seems like you were happy for BJ to 'act angry' without it being a detriment to his (BJ's) leadership qualities?

I wasn't there last night so I cannot really comment on what transpired during the game, but I have noticed that you are generally pretty quick to comment negatively about anything to do with Roo's captaincy.

[maverick]

Because I'd be playing him his continual dummy spits last night, including when Rhys decided it was time he stood up to he counted, and he had a whinge.

You can pay out on the likes of Saad and Siposs as much as you like, but lets not pretend Nick and Milne are "mentoring" them with their current attitudes.

Will be lucky to be on the end of anything if these guys dont get a bit of the hungry out of their game.

There. Got that out....

K I'm wondering if your view on this is coloured by your overall negative view of Roo's leadership qualities?
You have been 'down' on him for some time now in regards to this area, and it seems like you were happy for BJ to 'act angry' without it being a detriment to his (BJ's) leadership qualities?

I wasn't there last night so I cannot really comment on what transpired during the game, but I have noticed that you are generally pretty quick to comment negatively about anything to do with Roo's captaincy.

He was fine, nowhere near BJ's petulence for instance, he is a fantastic leader, the best I can remember we have had.
He is trying so hard, last night he was triple teamed for much of the last half, of course he is going to show some frustration.
He likes to win.

[saintspremiers]

I would be spitting the dummy if I continually made an effort to get clear in good position and find the ball instead being kicked to a contest or into no-mans land. Undisciplined football- coach issue.

Agree.

As I mentioned on another thread I heard him swear loudly on field which surprised me in its verocity and tone. But it was the first quarter and waranted.

Roo has busted his arse this year and the past 10 and can quite frankly say whatever he wants to some of those way softer than him.

[SainterK]

Because I'd be playing him his continual dummy spits last night, including when Rhys decided it was time he stood up to he counted, and he had a whinge.

You can pay out on the likes of Saad and Siposs as much as you like, but lets not pretend Nick and Milne are "mentoring" them with their current attitudes.

Will be lucky to be on the end of anything if these guys dont get a bit of the hungry out of their game.

There. Got that out....

K I'm wondering if your view on this is coloured by your overall negative view of Roo's leadership qualities?
You have been 'down' on him for some time now in regards to this area, and it seems like you were happy for BJ to 'act angry' without it being a detriment to his (BJ's) leadership qualities?

I wasn't there last night so I cannot really comment on what transpired during the game, but I have noticed that you are generally pretty quick to comment negatively about anything to do with Roo's captaincy.

I have thought about it, but I don't think so?

We are entering the phase where it's all about the kids learning from the leaders, I don't see how this encourages but rather diminishes their efforts.

We don't pump them up as much as other teams, from memory we didn't even put them in the winners circle when singing the song v Carlton for their first win. I think our kids look generally down on confidence. Lenny gave Armo a pat on the bum and a hair ruffle a few weeks back after a great effort, want to see more of that.

I agree I have been consistent on this, especially since he sprayed Milera last year.

Happy to read alternate opinions, it would be a boring world if we all thought the same. I am surprised that some think his body language towards Rhys was warranted, we need this middle tier to stand up, and why on earth would we squash that kind of 'I want to be the guy' attitude?

Roo has many great qualities as captain, but should not be above criticism if he falls short of it sometimes. I should emphasise it wasn't just one occasion, and it wasn't exclusive to him, Milne also...

[joffaboy]

Yes he is exempt.

Absolute St.Kilda champion who was busting his guts last night in attack and defense.

Deep into qtr 4 he was chasing his opponent as hard as if it was in the first minute of the game despite the team being thumped and being down by 10 goals.

He is the captain, a champion 5 time B&F, inspirational, and a Saints great.

If the team put in half his efforts we would be in much better shape.

its not a question of effort or record - that is unquestionable
it is a query on his leadership/attitude

He leads by example and has the attitude of someone who is greatly competitive and want to desperately win, while giving everything.

He is also the captain.

I reckon couch potatoes like you lot have got a hide to question his attitude and leadership.

Reiwoldt will go down as one of the top 5 players EVER for this club, and you lot want to pick s.hit because he wants his teammates to do what they are highly paid to do - give EVERYTHING in the quest of winning.

Really dissappointing

[SainterK]

Yes he is exempt.

Absolute St.Kilda champion who was busting his guts last night in attack and defense.

Deep into qtr 4 he was chasing his opponent as hard as if it was in the first minute of the game despite the team being thumped and being down by 10 goals.

He is the captain, a champion 5 time B&F, inspirational, and a Saints great.

If the team put in half his efforts we would be in much better shape.

its not a question of effort or record - that is unquestionable
it is a query on his leadership/attitude

He leads by example and has the attitude of someone who is greatly competitive and want to desperately win, while giving everything.

He is also the captain.

I reckon couch potatoes like you lot have got a hide to question his attitude and leadership.

Reiwoldt will go down as one of the top 5 players EVER for this club, and you lot want to pick s.hit because he wants his teammates to do what they are highly paid to do - give EVERYTHING in the quest of winning.

Really dissappointing

Rhys was doing what he should be doing?

He was Reiwoldt like in his desire to stand up last night IMO, loved it...and hope we don't squash it.

[ShanghaiSaint]

Because I'd be playing him his continual dummy spits last night, including when Rhys decided it was time he stood up to he counted, and he had a whinge.

You can pay out on the likes of Saad and Siposs as much as you like, but lets not pretend Nick and Milne are "mentoring" them with their current attitudes.

Will be lucky to be on the end of anything if these guys dont get a bit of the hungry out of their game.

There. Got that out....

cant blame him... he was free a few times and ignored... and then when it's kicked to him the usual drubber ball is delivered. or he has 3 on him... i would be bloody frustrated as well... and the 9 goal deficit doesn't help the mood either.

[micksaint777]

Don't usually reply often, but I think some people in this thread are really misunderstanding qualities of 'leadership.'

Re the Rhys issue - I think people are really misunderstanding what Roo was frustrated about - it wasn't Rhys having a crack and standing up (in fact as soon as he kicked the goal I'm sure Rooey would be there congratulating him) it was the fact he didn't do the team thing. You should NEVER immediately turn your back on play when fifty out even with his amazing long and accurate kick. The TEAM thing to do is to lower your eyes and if a opportunity presents where you can pass it off to someone in a better position to kick it - you do it. It's the TEAM thing, it's a TEAM sport and it needs to be drilled into everyone. Sure, Rhys got away with it this time, but if he makes a habit of ignoring play right off the bat 50 out he won't always slot it. And that's the thing had he not kicked it he would have been hounded and lynched. He redeemed himself for kicking the goal and he is a wonderful kid who did some great things but even so he was wrong for turning his back on the play and ignoring potentially better leads. That gamble will not always pay off, in fact I think it will fail more times than it will succeed. I'm all for having a crack, good on him for taking the responsibility he had to, but Roo was right for having a go when he didn't do the team thing.

That aside these 'kids' need to also learn that if you let your team down by lacking endeavor you WILL get fingers pointed at you. It's the way team sports are, they have to learn this as well. Roo busted his ass all night (off screen he does more than many team mates do on) is it really so wrong that he expects the same commitment from his others peers? In fact, it shows he is a great leader by not standing by idly and accepting mediocrity that was dished out last night. He leads by example, always has, players within and outside the club attest to his leadership qualities and I will always take the opinions of those who play with him than those on this board who don't.

I know the loss hit had but to attack Roo's leadership is the height of ridiculousness. As stated, he will forever be a champion of the game and club, and most importantly he does what all captions should - leads by example.

[Spinner]

What did Rhys do to get a spray? Turn his back to the field when he marked?

[micksaint777]

What did Rhys do to get a spray? Turn his back to the field when he marked?

Rhys marked outside fifty and immediately turned his back on play - ignoring a lead from Roo much loser to home in the process.

He kicked the goal, but it was still a bad error. You should always be aware of what is happening around you even when going for goal. It's pretty fundamental but Rhys will learn this, it just happened to earn him the ire of the captain who for the most part was boxed in all day and rarely got a chance to get the lead he worked for so hard.

All under the rug though I'm sure, people here are just extrapolating a rather small issue.

[whiskers3614]

Apart from this year Riewoldt's conversion rate has been very average.
Some of the spots he leads to are ridiculous. Work rate unquestioned but often demands the ball when better options may be available.

[micksaint777]

Apart from this year Riewoldt's conversion rate has been very average.
Some of the spots he leads to are ridiculous. Work rate unquestioned but often demands the ball when better options may be available.

Past conversion rate is irrelevant as this year is has been just about spot on which is what really matters.

Secondly perhaps at times he demands it at disadvantageous times (although on current form you'd always give him a chance) but in this situation he was well and truly on the lead and clear for one of the few times in the match, and was in a far better position to kick the goal than Rhys was. I don't see how it is that outlandish that he played the percentages and expected Rhys to at least have eyes on the play and be aware of this.