The Hickey trade

[plugger66]

What about we bring in Lee and move Roo to CHB?

Are we trying to kick no goals?

Our finals chances are shot, so why not experiment?

Lee was recurited as a Full Forward.

And we seriously need a key backman. From memory Roo won the Rising Star award at CHB. He would give great drive from the backline.

If it fails and we can't kick goals, we will lose games and get an early draft pick......tanking..?

What's to lose, we've already droped points against the Dogs & the Suns.....we could even lose against the Deamons

Rooy won nothing at CHB and now is not the time to play Roo there. Lee will play on the forward line if good enough.

[gringo]

Does anyone think it wasn't a mistake?

The trade was: Hickey, pick 26 and pick 47 for pick 13, pick 37 and pick 57.

First of all, we used 47 to get TDL so that upgrade is meaningless, the trade in effect was Hickey and 26 for 13 and 37.

A lot of water to go under the bridge yet…

Maybe if we'd used 47 on Membrey the deal would look a lot better, nothing against the hyphen personally, but he doesn't seem to be what we need at all.

I don't see where TDL could possibly fit into any AFL side. He wasn't able to get a gig at a top side as a finisher and he's not able to get into a bottom side with underperforming small forwards. I think he's an excellent state footballer who had a good past relationship with our coach, which is the only reason why he's still on an AFL list.

He has hardly played enough games to write him off yet. Probably more the balance of 3 or 4 small forwards make the scraps a little thin for another tip rat type. Post Milney he might just shine more than the others we have as Saad and milera are sent for mid field rotations.

[Teflon]

Does anyone think it wasn't a mistake?

The trade was: Hickey, pick 26 and pick 47 for pick 13, pick 37 and pick 57.

First of all, we used 47 to get TDL so that upgrade is meaningless, the trade in effect was Hickey and 26 for 13 and 37.

A lot of water to go under the bridge yet…

Maybe if we'd used 47 on Membrey the deal would look a lot better, nothing against the hyphen personally, but he doesn't seem to be what we need at all.

I don't see where TDL could possibly fit into any AFL side. He wasn't able to get a gig at a top side as a finisher and he's not able to get into a bottom side with underperforming small forwards. I think he's an excellent state footballer who had a good past relationship with our coach, which is the only reason why he's still on an AFL list.

I agree.

TDL mustve known someone from WA days.....and this is the worry for mine.

Scott better forget his WA mates and just get the best wherever they come from .......he'll live and die by whose around him and right now in the box and in TDL there's some cabbages IMHO.

[Sainter93]

Hickey has played what? 20 games?
I know we all want immediate results but we are just going to have to be patient and let him and White develop. You can't compare them to other draftees 10 or 20 games into their careers.

We will have more of an idea after they have played 50 games.

[Con Gorozidis]

I hate to be a hindsight hero

But i think the majority view on Saintsational last year was

We need a back up ruckman but Ben is a decent number 1.
Dont spend a high draft pick on a ruckman as its too risky.
Just get a back up ruckman with a later pick and use a high pick on a kpp.

I reckon that view is/was still correct. I have nothing against playing two ruckman but these two are complimenting each other at all.

Could we get a first rounder if we traded either of these two now? Im guessing probably not.

For the record I reckon they are both decent players.

[BigMart]

This was floated after the GC game and watching some Prac games.... When I realised he could not play fwd.

[mad saint guy]

This was floated after the GC game and watching some Prac games.... When I realised he could not play fwd.

I think perhaps his game against us last year when he kicked two goals gave our coaches the impression that he could be a good forward/ruck, and I believed it too. But everything we've seen this year emphatically says he is a tap ruckman only.

Would it be so ridiculous to trade him?

[robsaint]

It is well documented we have too many player in the older bracket. 11 who as of today are over 28 and 6 of those over 30. Three of the six will probably go at the end of the year. Kosi, Blake and Milne with Lenny not that far behind as his body I don't think can take it anymore, shame. Then some the ones about to hit 30 like Roo, Fisher, Joey, Schinder, Dal, Demspter. Problem is we need these guys around to teach the younger guys the game. Roo should be good for 1 max two years. Joey probably another , Demspter another 1-2 and Dal another 2. The problem is we don't have any players with decent experience in the 23-25 bracket that are absolute stars. So sorry if I am stating the obvious but we need to recruit upcoming stars that have started to prove themselves. Target guys that want to come back to Victoria. We also don't want to waste our high draft picks like I think we have on Lee( I hope I am wrong). It is good Watters is put some games into the Wrights and websters and teaching stanley the finer art of defense, which helps when you are a forward. The problem we have is we are suffering from the ineffective recruiting during the Lyon era. It is going to be difficult to get a up and coming star to come to a side that looks like it will not taste success for a while. How come other clubs(geelong and Swans) have managed to continually attract or recruit. We need someone who can sell the saints.

[tweedaletomanning]

It is well documented we have too many player in the older bracket. 11 who as of today are over 28 and 6 of those over 30. Three of the six will probably go at the end of the year. Kosi, Blake and Milne with Lenny not that far behind as his body I don't think can take it anymore, shame. Then some the ones about to hit 30 like Roo, Fisher, Joey, Schinder, Dal, Demspter. Problem is we need these guys around to teach the younger guys the game. Roo should be good for 1 max two years. Joey probably another , Demspter another 1-2 and Dal another 2. The problem is we don't have any players with decent experience in the 23-25 bracket that are absolute stars. So sorry if I am stating the obvious but we need to recruit upcoming stars that have started to prove themselves. Target guys that want to come back to Victoria. We also don't want to waste our high draft picks like I think we have on Lee( I hope I am wrong). It is good Watters is put some games into the Wrights and websters and teaching stanley the finer art of defense, which helps when you are a forward. The problem we have is we are suffering from the ineffective recruiting during the Lyon era. It is going to be difficult to get a up and coming star to come to a side that looks like it will not taste success for a while. How come other clubs(geelong and Swans) have managed to continually attract or recruit. We need someone who can sell the saints.

We can't have it both ways,

We can't just let players like ball or Goddard just walk

Or let the best/ most succesful coach to have coached us since jeans just leave because we were umming and ahhring
About a contact extension.

And expect to to sell the football club as a place where champion players should come to.

We( not we really but the admin )made decisions on which direction the club will take.

We now have to live with those decisions.

We will only know in around five years, whether we have the right people in charge.

What I don't understand is that we have the same salary cap as hawthorn and Geelong , and yet look at us ....

[paddy]

if we persist with rhys in the backline, we should be playing hickey in the square...

he should present and take a tall defender off roo..

doesn't even have to mark it or kick goals, just bring the ball to ground by creating a contest...


this is the kosi role, and it is how they should break in hickey... he can build up his strength and keep his athleticism up by pinch hitting in ruck while the ball goes up in the forward line...

[vacuous space]

Hickey wasn't picked up for 2013. Most of the comments by Bains, Pelchen and Watters reflected that. He was picked up because he has exceptional athletic abilities. With the interchange cap coming next year, the fact that neither he nor Ben ever really need to come off for a rest will mean we can use our rotations in the middle.

Stanley's never really sttled into a position after several seasons. Hickey's been here for half a year. Give him some time before declaring he can't do anything.

[mad saint guy]

Hickey wasn't picked up for 2013. Most of the comments by Bains, Pelchen and Watters reflected that. He was picked up because he has exceptional athletic abilities. With the interchange cap coming next year, the fact that neither he nor Ben ever really need to come off for a rest will mean we can use our rotations in the middle.

Stanley's never really sttled into a position after several seasons. Hickey's been here for half a year. Give him some time before declaring he can't do anything.

I'm not expecting Hickey to be dominating this year, I think he'll be a very good ruckman in the future. But how the hell do we carry two rucks who can't play anywhere else in this future with limited cap rotations? McEvoy has incredible endurance and barely needs a chop out - this is why he is so valuable! And Stanley is perfectly suited to the occasional run in the ruck while mainly playing forward. We had a perfectly functional ruck setup locked in for the next 6-7 years. Sure, recruit backup. Spend a 4th round pick on Currie or Hannath or Stephenson. Don't piss away first round picks on someone who doesn't fit in your best 22.

[vacuous space]

But how the hell do we carry two rucks who can't play anywhere else in this future with limited cap rotations?

I'd say it's pretty likely he'll get a fair crack at playing as a forward. Watters has shown a steady commitment to carrying a redundant tall all year, so I doubt that's going to change with a cap. It'll likely be Roo, someone else and Hickey and McEvoy rotating.

[Life Long Saint]

Weren't we all lamenting last season when McEvoy and Stanley were both out injured and Blake and Wilkes were rucking that we needed another ruckman as a priority?

Well we addressed that over the summer (as a priority).

The club did exactly what we needed to do in that area.

Now we need more midfielders...especially in and under types.

[Spinner]

It's interesting this one, hard to have answers.


Last year we were "we need more ruckman" when McEvoy and Stanley went down. So went out and got one.

When we go out a get a less talented one like Patterson. The club also gets criticised.


Although we can't carry two elite ruckman, I'm not sure what the process brief is? Recruite one elite ruck and one average ruck? Shouldn't we try and recruite well all the time?

Pick 13 was huge, but if that's who they identified over anyone else. Need to go out and get them.

[1433davids]

mc evoy came up against the best ruckman in the comp at the moment goldstein is on fire if he keeps inproving at the rate he has the past couple of years he will be a gun sooner than later. not 25 yo yet i think most ruckmen hit straps late 204 to early 30s.
dal 25 poss,12 kicks , 13 hballs, 80% eff, 7marks, 5 con poss, 17 uncon poss 3clear, 1clang, 3 tack , 20 press acts,2 ass , 3 score inv as well as played part of the game on a hbf (totaly not suited) to give others a crack in the middle. This guy is a gun watch him in the second half of the year. & this guy is not to old to be giving younger guys a crack at his spot I pray we do not loose him like ball goddard gram ect if any other midfielder in the comp was getting his stats every week the coaching staff and fans would be wrapped . But the again a lot of saints supporters seem to want to eat their own , heaven forbid if reivolt drops of 5%

[1433davids]

Stanley will be a gun forward if given the time there sack relidge to use him as fodder in the ruck ,

[Kernal75]

I'd like to know how many 19 y.o ruckmen with 1 season under their belt are out there dominating? Oh hang on, I know the answer.......none. Hickey trade was a good one for mine, wait until he's 26 and put on another 15kgs and then look back and decide whether it was good trade or not!!

[dragit]

I'd like to know how many 19 y.o ruckmen with 1 season under their belt are out there dominating? Oh hang on, I know the answer.......none. Hickey trade was a good one for mine, wait until he's 26 and put on another 15kgs and then look back and decide whether it was good trade or not!!

He's 22

[lloyd21]

Very happy with Hickey

Very happy with White

Very happy with Wright

Very happy with Saunders

Very happy with Murdoch

Very happy with Peirce

All these guys are great gets for Saints talk about them in 3 years you will saying how good this draft was.

I have seen them all play a lot they all need time

[Zed]

Strange to recruit 2 ruckman last year (1 being a trade) instead of getting a key position player.
We've got 5 ruckman under 23 in McEvoy, Stanley, Hickey, Lever & Pierce. Seems more in that department then our lack of tall forwards or backs.

with proper development its now an area of our list we don't particularly need to worry about for the next 10 years with all being in their prime in 5 years from now when most of us think we should be contenders again.

do worry about Lever though .. needs to show a bit more from what people are saying. Was played as a CHB in the U18s - would like to see him get a run there at Sandy to see if its worth pursuing.

[Sobraz]

Mike Pyke hardly knew what AFL was when he was picked up...

Then, playing soley as a ruckman, he barely looked AFL standard, let alone able to be an option forward... Given time, it is now accepted that he and Mumford can both play in the same side, rotating in the forward line (with Tippet still to come in), as his athleticism and training/education, has made him more than capable.. 3 years worth..

Hickey should be afforded the same sort of latitude, as he has the raw tools, and was never promising anyone to deliver from day 1... He will make it, along with Ben, in the same side..

We just need to hold tight for 24 months and enjoy the tough times through clenched teeth...