Adam Goodes should promote the King Kong musical

[plugger66]

Adam Goodes is 33 years old. That is considerably less than 200 years.
He might have put up with being called names since he started going to school at five. So that's 28 years of name calling but I am guessing that it is far less prevalent now than it was 20 years ago. I get why he is upset...
If a 33yo Jewish man has been teased since primary school he has as much right as Adam Goodes to be upset by a comment about his religion.
If a 33yo fat man has been teased since primary school he has as much right as Adam Goodes to be upset by a comment about his weight.
No group or individual has exclusivity or rank on being offended. Nobody can say that one comment is more offensive than another. If the target of the comment is offended then they are offended. End of story.

The comment clearly still upsets Goodes but that has nothing to do with the 200 years of being a "lesser species". It has more to do with his life...He even admitted that he'd been teased since school about his colour.
Sins perpetrated by our ancestors should not be ours to pay for. The best way to right the wrongs from history is to never repeat them.

Our society now treats everyone the same...well maybe not the gays and lesbians because they still can't marry...but we do not discriminate based on race, religion or gender (except for those women only gyms). Everyone is treated equally and that is the best way of acknowledging the sins of the past. We are getting there and the reaction of this event and the column inches it has dominated show that. Compare this to five, ten, fifteen years ago.

You just dont get it. it doesnt matter that Goodes has only been racially abused for whatever years. Their race has been abused for 200 years. And now he and many others are sick of it. Have no idea why you would be the Jewish thing into it. Of course he has the same right to get upset. who said he hasnt. And the same with a fat person. he can also get upset but that is different to calling a black person an ape because on the connotation of the word ape. A fat person is actually fat. a black person isnt an ape. And wasnt it you who sad you looked up ape in the dictionary and there was no mention of racist there. The more I think of that the less i think people understand this topic.

I do get it. My point is that offence is not exclusive or ranked and that the sins of our previous generations are not ours to pay for.

I am not saying that using the word Ape is OK. But I seriously doubt Adam Goodes thought much about the 167 years prior to his birth when he pointed the girl to the security staff.
Using your logic of "A fat person is actually fat"...Well there have been cases of aboriginal footballers taking offence at being called black. That is their right to do so but explain how that is different.

Thanks for telling us Goodes wasnt upset before he was born. And i believed in reincarnation. Looks like thats a myth. As for Aboriginals being called black i think it would depend in the context and anyway most arent black as far as i can tell. they seem dark skinned to me.

And i do agree that you, me or anyone else shouldnt really pay for the previous generations but again that has nothing to do with how Goodes feels.

[Life Long Saint]

Why dont you people acknowledge the difference between racism, and insults directed at a person.

The trouble is a comment can be intended as a insult directed at the individual and be taken as racist. The adults can, more often than not, with the benefit of wisdom make the distinction and exercise discretion but a 13yo girl is unlikely to do so. She admitted that it her comment was based on the fact that he was big and had a hairy face (both true). That doesn't excuse the comment it but it allows for an opportunity for an apology, education and the ability to move on.

If you are gay and called a homophic name, it is offensive but it doesn't mean you are not gay.
if you are called fat, it is offensive but it may well be true.

And if a black person is called black? That is both directed at the individual and racist.

If you are black and called an ape, it has the connotation of you being less than a human and this is patently not true. It is based on skin colour and culture, it is based on race supremism.

Agreed but it doesn't mean that comment is more hurtful to individual receiving it than a comment not based on race.

The Nazi's took this sub human thought to it horrific conclusion. 6 million Jews murdered (they were stigmatised as sewer rats in Geobells propoganda movies) and up to 20 million slavs in Ukraine, and Russia (and other Eastern European countries) the Nazi's referred to as Untermensch (under man or sub human). They also referred to black Colonial French forces in the battle for France as apes, and shot 3000 of them because they had black skin.
TO refer to a human as less than a human is racist. The Japanese were racist toward the Chinese in their 1937-45 war, thought the whites as lesser men.
It is just not white humans who are racist, it is anyone who thinks their "race" is superior and denigrates another human as something less.

Yes...History is littered with appalling examples of this...Our colonisers do not escape this either all but wiping out the Tasmanian aborigines.
Troubling that it still continues in other parts of the world.

[Sobraz]

Why dont you people acknowledge the difference between racism, and insults directed at a person.

If you are gay and called a homophic name, it is offensive but it doesn't mean you are not gay.

if you are called fat, it is offensive but it may well be true.

Cannot agree at all..

So that other Collingwood supporting scumbag who said words to the effect of 'give the ball to Goodes because he is black, give it to Jetta, because he is black' is just being offensive, but not racist? Goodes and Jetta are both dark skinned, or black, much like a gay person is gay.

Vilifying someone because they are gay, or fat, or whatever it is that makes them different to the perpetrator, is in a sense casting them as sub human, as it is used as a disability or fault in their make-up... Equally as bad, and exactly the same..

[plugger66]

Why dont you people acknowledge the difference between racism, and insults directed at a person.

If you are gay and called a homophic name, it is offensive but it doesn't mean you are not gay.

if you are called fat, it is offensive but it may well be true.

Cannot agree at all..

So that other Collingwood supporting scumbag who said words to the effect of 'give the ball to Goodes because he is black, give it to Jetta, because he is black' is just being offensive, but not racist? Goodes and Jetta are both dark skinned, or black, much like a gay person is gay.

Vilifying someone because they are gay, or fat, or whatever it is that makes them different to the perpetrator, is in a sense casting them as sub human, as it is used as a disability or fault in their make-up... Equally as bad, and exactly the same..

One is illegal, the others are just poor form so no they arent the same.

[Life Long Saint]

I do get it. My point is that offence is not exclusive or ranked and that the sins of our previous generations are not ours to pay for.

I am not saying that using the word Ape is OK. But I seriously doubt Adam Goodes thought much about the 167 years prior to his birth when he pointed the girl to the security staff.
Using your logic of "A fat person is actually fat"...Well there have been cases of aboriginal footballers taking offence at being called black. That is their right to do so but explain how that is different.

Thanks for telling us Goodes wasnt upset before he was born. And i believed in reincarnation. Looks like thats a myth. As for Aboriginals being called black i think it would depend in the context and anyway most arent black as far as i can tell. they seem dark skinned to me.

And i do agree that you, me or anyone else shouldnt really pay for the previous generations but again that has nothing to do with how Goodes feels.

I never said that Goodes wasn't upset before he was born. I said I doubt he thought much about the 167 years prior to his birth when he pointed the girl to the security staff. Meaning that I stand by my original view that, according to the man himself, had to put up with those comments since he was at school. And that would have been the overwhelming factor in the offence that was taken.

Dark skinned not black? Fair skinned not white? I think you're splitting hairs.

[BakesFan]

Does "Rascism = Bullying" ?? .....are they one and the same thing?..an attempt by one person to use force, coercion or abuse to intimidate others.

..maybe we should get rid of the word 'racism', group it with all of those things above, and call them by their proper name, "bullying"?...... just a suggestion.

If you call someone who made a stupid racial joke, "Racist!!"; does that make you a bully?....... Shouldn't you gently educate them as to the error of their ways, rather than thrust labels on them?

What exactly is "Race" anyway?? ....Is it purely geographical?...are Italians a 'race'?..are Scots? Japanese?....Is it physical traits?...white skin, black skin, yellow skin?...... could someone please list all the individual "Races" for me?

....Isn't there just one race?.....The Human Race.......can't healthy men and women of all 'racial' backgrounds 'interbreed' to produce healthy offspring?......doesn't that fact alone make us one race??

Is being proud of your culture 'racist'? Does that mean you think you're better than others who aren't of your ethnicity?........... Are Aussies racist simply because they're proud of being Aussies?

I've just done a search looking for a definition of 'race', only to discover that to me no clear-cut definition exists..... it's all very arbitrary and open to interpretation....similarly with 'racism'....

I did, however, find the U.N's definition of Racial Discrimination:
"the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life."

Interesting definition..again open to conjecture....'race' is mentioned but not defined.

SO!.... If it's that difficult to define "Race" and "Racism", how the hell are we supposed to "stamp it out"??..........

I can only suggest that you treat people respectfully, and as individuals, regardless of how they look etc......

...Unless we rid ourselves of any sort of "Us" and "Them" mentality it will just continue on........It's just "Us" okay?

We are the human race.... a collection of diverse Individuals.......sometimes we can be mean.....sometimes a little too precious'....sometimes a pain in the ar$e...and sometimes absolutely wonderful.......but we will always be on this journey together.....

...and without mutual respect, it all gets pretty nasty, pretty quickly.

[Sobraz]

Why dont you people acknowledge the difference between racism, and insults directed at a person.

If you are gay and called a homophic name, it is offensive but it doesn't mean you are not gay.

if you are called fat, it is offensive but it may well be true.

Cannot agree at all..

So that other Collingwood supporting scumbag who said words to the effect of 'give the ball to Goodes because he is black, give it to Jetta, because he is black' is just being offensive, but not racist? Goodes and Jetta are both dark skinned, or black, much like a gay person is gay.

Vilifying someone because they are gay, or fat, or whatever it is that makes them different to the perpetrator, is in a sense casting them as sub human, as it is used as a disability or fault in their make-up... Equally as bad, and exactly the same..

One is illegal, the others are just poor form so no they arent the same.

Since when does legality justify the offence??

Up until a couple of decades ago it was legal to rape your wife if you were married.. Guess that made it not as bad as a random rape... Absurd comparison I'm sorry, but illustrating a point...

In 5-10 years time there's a chance making a homophobic comment will be illegal.. So they'll be equally as bad then, but not now??

[joffaboy]

So that other Collingwood supporting scumbag who said words to the effect of 'give the ball to Goodes because he is black, give it to Jetta, because he is black' is just being offensive, but not racist? Goodes and Jetta are both dark skinned, or black, much like a gay person is gay.

You really can't see the larger issue here? Again that Collingwood fool was inferring that because of their skin colour they were getting preferential treatment, because they are not like "us".

Vilifying someone because they are gay, or fat, or whatever it is that makes them different to the perpetrator, is in a sense casting them as sub human, as it is used as a disability or fault in their make-up... Equally as bad, and exactly the same..

Completely incorrect. Calling someone an ape or in the Jews case a sewer rat dehumanises them. They are not human in the perps eyes, but akin to a under evolved lesser species (in the apes case) or vermin (in the sewer rats case).

Calling someone fat or gay when they are fat or gay is not dehumanising them, it is ridiculing them, and insulting because they are different. There is no inference to being subhuman.

Anyway gay and fat people are across all races. To attack someone because of their skin colour, heritage, ancestory, and culture is racist.

The other is ignorant and stupid.

I really am dissapointed how many of you haven't thought this through and cant understand the basic difference.

[markp]

It's not that hard is it?

Which group has suffered the most from discrimination over the last couple of centuries in this country, and still to this day?

Which group is the most downtrodden and has the highest incarceration rate, lowest life expectancy, etc...?

What sort of family history would even someone like Goodes have?... One of generations of imposed disadvantage and discrimination, where you were treated as the dregs from day one, with little or no hope of redemption.

How would that affect a people over generations, and an individual born into that?

How do you think his parents, grandparents, relatives have been treated over their lives, and in front of his eyes?

The guy is at the very top of his profession, a national icon, worked his arse off to get there, and in a week set aside to honour and celebrate how far we've supposedly come he is (still) confronted with this.

It matters not one bit what the girls or ed's 'intent' was, how could we know? Who cares? These are comments and areas that are simply totally off-limits, for reason including those above... is it really so difficult or burdensome to simply not go there?

The law says we are all equal, society is still catching up.

Of course we rank these things, of course they carry different weight... equating racism to calling someone fat or stupid is silly. Bullying and harassment are a separate matter and obviously intolerable in all forms, but racism rightly occupies a space of its own, and in this country racism against indigenous people is particularly sensitive.

Don't go there... not hard.

[Life Long Saint]

One is illegal, the others are just poor form so no they arent the same.

You're right that racial and religious vilification is against the law. But the law is as follows...

Racial vilification unlawful
7. Racial vilification unlawful

(1) A person must not, on the ground of the race of another person or class of persons, engage in conduct that incites hatred against, serious contempt for, or revulsion or severe ridicule of, that other person or class of persons.

(2) For the purposes of subsection (1), conduct-
(a) may be constituted by a single occasion or by a number of occasions over a period of time; and
(b) may occur in or outside Victoria.

Note Engage in conduct includes use of the internet or e-mail to publish or transmit statements or other material.

I think you'd have a hard time prosecuting any of the comments we've heard over the past few days.

Reading that law, I doubt the spirit of it is to catch the one-off thoughtless comment.

[joffaboy]

Nice post Bakesfan.

Puts into perspective that racism is an anachronism and astonishingly ignorant when it is revealed that every human on earth has virtually the same gene makup.

Race is indeed skin deep only.

Which puts in perspective calling an Australian aboriginal an ape. It is to assert he is a less of a human than the non ape humans i.e. the tribe the racist abuser hails from.

You have encapulated the whole argument. All humans of all so called races are almost EXACTLY the same. European, Arabs, Africans, Indians, Asians, American and Australian Indigeneous, Pacific Islander, Eskimo, etc etc etc.

We are all genetically the same.

[Life Long Saint]

Anyway gay and fat people are across all races. To attack someone because of their skin colour, heritage, ancestory, and culture is racist.

The other is ignorant and stupid.

I really am dissapointed how many of you haven't thought this through and cant understand the basic difference.

I think they're all ignorant and stupid.
Sorry if that disappoints you.

[Sobraz]

I really am dissapointed how many of you haven't thought this through and cant understand the basic difference.

How patronising...

I am not attempting to devalue the enormity of the racism debate, there is very little that is worse in this world, but I'm not going to discredit the effect that those other forms of abuse can have on those people that are the victims...

Whether it's black, gay or fat... I would not think abusing another person that is either of those three in any particular order is worse than the other...

[joffaboy]

Anyway gay and fat people are across all races. To attack someone because of their skin colour, heritage, ancestory, and culture is racist.

The other is ignorant and stupid.

I really am dissapointed how many of you haven't thought this through and cant understand the basic difference.

I think they're all ignorant and stupid.
Sorry if that disappoints you.

Dont be sorry. it really isn't my responsibility for ignorance or willfull misunderstanding.

You dont understand the difference between racism and other insults? I shouldn't have said it is dissapointing.

I actually feel sympathy for you and a little sorry for you.

It is really sad read your faux justifications and attempts to water down racism.

Anyway reading this thread it is easily seent that views like yours are in the minority.

Its a shame that your views are still about. Oh well

[joffaboy]

I really am dissapointed how many of you haven't thought this through and cant understand the basic difference.

How patronising...

I wouldn't patronise you, you are WAY too smart to be patronised.......

[Sobraz]

I really am dissapointed how many of you haven't thought this through and cant understand the basic difference.

How patronising...

I wouldn't patronise you, you are WAY too smart to be patronised.......

Yeh ok Joffa...

Hopefully you can see us all down below out the window of your Ivory tower..

[Life Long Saint]

Anyway gay and fat people are across all races. To attack someone because of their skin colour, heritage, ancestory, and culture is racist.

The other is ignorant and stupid.

I really am dissapointed how many of you haven't thought this through and cant understand the basic difference.

I think they're all ignorant and stupid.
Sorry if that disappoints you.

Dont be sorry. it really isn't my responsibility for ignorance or willfull misunderstanding.

You dont understand the difference between racism and other insults? I shouldn't have said it is dissapointing.

I actually feel sympathy for you and a little sorry for you.

It is really sad read your faux justifications and attempts to water down racism.

Anyway reading this thread it is easily seent that views like yours are in the minority.

Its a shame that your views are still about. Oh well

Where you see watering down of racism I see your understating any form of vilification.
Racism is deplorable, no doubt...Not sure where I've said that racism is OK.
I don't put racism on a pedestal of "isms". To me they're all bad.

Race, religion, sexual persuasion, culture, gender, it doesn't matter. They are all based on the belief that one person is superior to another.
I actually feel sympathy for you that you can't see that.

[joffaboy]

Yeh ok Joffa...

Hopefully you can see us all down below out the window of your Ivory tower..

Not my fault you dont understand the basic concepts of racism. Maybe go and read a book, or get an education.

Not my responsibility for your ignorance.

[joffaboy]

Race, religion, sexual persuasion, culture, gender, it doesn't matter. They are all based on the belief that one person is superior to another.
I actually feel sympathy for you that you can't see that.

Now you are just getting silly.

Really your views are so out of whack with logical thinking it is getting embarrassing for you.

You refuse to address the simple premis that calling someone, for example fat, is an insult but not dehumanising, calling a person of a certain race an ape is DEHUMANISING.

You wont address that, I dont know why. You keep harking back to all insults being bad, you simply dont have the insight to understand.

Oh well not my role to educate the ignorant. It can be seen your attitude and others like you is in the extreme minority on this thread which is encouraging.

Maybe go and educate yoursel and get back to us.

Signing off as there is no value in discussing someone so blind and so narrow minded.

[Little Dozer]

Wow, some of the posts in this thread are mind boggling.

[bergsone]

So over it

[felix]

I'm glad this has happened , it takes pressure of the young girl who thought Adam looked like an ape. It brings almost the biggest footy celebrity in the country into the spot light to help teach all other football followers that racism sucks .

It's a moment we had to have in this country ..we are mad sports people our heros are sports people generally ...it's the best arena to learn about racism. All afl fans in particular will have heard about this and hopefully would have learnt from this , it may have pushed us a lot quicker to a more respectful place in sport than if it didn't happen.

I'm glad it was Eddie as he is the king of collingwood family they shall all learn from this.

[SainterK]

I don't believe in evolution though Carl...

[Sobraz]

Yeh ok Joffa...

Hopefully you can see us all down below out the window of your Ivory tower..

Not my fault you dont understand the basic concepts of racism. Maybe go and read a book, or get an education.

Not my responsibility for your ignorance.

I understand the concept of racism perfectly well... Do not try and turn this around by insinuating that I do not have nothing but utter contempt for what racism is and does to our society.. I have said all along that the ape comment was disgraceful, and have thought it racist from the outset..

It was you that started the thread to condemn a 13 year old child and ban her from the game, without looking at the circumstances that brought her to this point...

It is you who more than likely jokes with your mates about men holding hands, but it's ok because you know a gay and you don't judge him on that...

Anyway, I'm done with this pissing contest, as was mentioned earlier, they are all ignorant and stupid..

[Life Long Saint]

Race, religion, sexual persuasion, culture, gender, it doesn't matter. They are all based on the belief that one person is superior to another.
I actually feel sympathy for you that you can't see that.

Now you are just getting silly.

Really your views are so out of whack with logical thinking it is getting embarrassing for you.

You refuse to address the simple premis that calling someone, for example fat, is an insult but not dehumanising, calling a person of a certain race an ape is DEHUMANISING.

You wont address that, I dont know why. You keep harking back to all insults being bad, you simply dont have the insight to understand.

Oh well not my role to educate the ignorant. It can be seen your attitude and others like you is in the extreme minority on this thread which is encouraging.

Maybe go and educate yoursel and get back to us.

Signing off as there is no value in discussing someone so blind and so narrow minded.

Narrow minded?
I think my views on vilification are far broader than yours.

Rather than rationally debate the issue, you seem to think it is more fun to insult other posters that don't exactly share your view and thinly veil your own sense of superiority.
That speaks volumes!

Just for yucks, I will address your comparison between insulting a fat person and calling people of certain races apes. Fat people the world over are called fat pigs. Last time I checked, they are not human...Ergo, fat people are dehumanised. Personally, I don't know how long that has been going on but I can speak with confidence that it has been around for the last 40 years and I'd be willing to wager that it has been around a lot longer than that.
To that individual, the insult can be just as hurtful and damaging as any racial insult.

DEHUMANISING is not solely the realm of race based insults. Terms like dogs, pigs and maggots among others have been used to categorise many minority groups over time.

Once again (from the top)...Vilifying someone based on race, religion, sexual persuasion, culture, gender, it doesn't matter. They are all based on the belief that one person is superior to another.
That is the crux of the issue.