disposal efficiency

[terry smith rules]

I am so sick of the posts (usually the same people, like dogs with bones) who go on and on about Jones , Geary etc and how bad their disposal is.

You might want to look at some stats, before you continue with your campaigns

The AFL average for disposal efficiency is 70.8 accross all teams, Saints 70.60 so thats ok

C. Jones 69.6 so below average (just) but alongside Burgoyne and Malceski (and you don't see many knocking their efficiency.)

J. geary 74.2 putting him alongside Deledio and Dempster

So lets put this to bed once and for all

Yes players miss targets, but given the above it is not as bad some make out.

To read posts on here (you know who you are) you would think these guys run at about 25%

fqf

[Choppa]

The facts always help.

[Richter]

In 2011, CJ's effective disposal percentage was 74% compared with Nick Dal Santo at 72.7%.

I guess they gave the AA jumper to the wrong man?

[Old Mate]

So CJ is a better user of the footy than Malcheski and Burg and Geary than Deledio....based on stats. Just shows that stats are not the be all and end all

[noob]

Difference is Burgoyne and Malceski are attacking players who take the ball forward that when there kicks pay off its very effective has great impact. Most defensive players have good stats due to giving the ball to a player with better skills or the fact they don't want to make mistakes due to their inability to make an impact.

[8856brother]

It's easy to have effective disposal when you handball and kick backwards, 10 to 20 yards, to a player under no pressure. You must move forward at some stage to score. Players with the courage to do this, and do it effectivly, are worth their weight in gold.

Give me as many stats as you like. I would rather the ball in Dals hands more than CJ's any day of the week.

[Choppa]

The stats tells us that CJ's possessions are usually going to the selected target. So his kicking can't be as atrocious as people here make out. But I agree he could be kicking to better targets.

[The OtherThommo]

I'm willing to bet Jimmy Webster will have a statistical disposal efficiency below Jones and Geary. But, he'll be far more effective and we'll derive much greater advantage when Jimmy's got the ball. Efficiency and effect are 2 very different things.
Personally I think score involvements, distance covered and clearing or entering zones are far more meaningful stats, particularly when linked.

[dragit]

I love a good stat, but this is one that doesn't tell the whole story, as someone pointed out recently, there is no weigting to disp %... So a hospital handball from CJ is rated the same as a 60m bullet from Wright hitting Riewoldt on the chest.

Is Jones as good as Sam Mitchell by foot? I'm sure their disposals efficiency is similar, but one is the best kicking mid in league the other the worst - hands down.

[Eastern]

Disposal efficiency and disposal aesthetics are 2 completely different things. CJ's efficiency is OK, it's his awkward kicking style that seems to confuse some. Gilbo is similar !!

[mr six o'clock]

Do they break down his disposals into kicks and handballs !
Over his career he has averaged 2 more handpasses a game to kicks .
I believe Cj s handpass effiency would be high whilst his kicking effiency would be around 50 % .

When Cj started he kicked the ball more , ross lyon turned that on its head !

His short passes are good but his rainmaking long kicks usually end up in opposition hands .

[st.byron]

I am so sick of the posts (usually the same people, like dogs with bones) who go on and on about Jones , Geary etc and how bad their disposal is.

You might want to look at some stats, before you continue with your campaigns

The AFL average for disposal efficiency is 70.8 accross all teams, Saints 70.60 so thats ok

C. Jones 69.6 so below average (just) but alongside Burgoyne and Malceski (and you don't see many knocking their efficiency.)

J. geary 74.2 putting him alongside Deledio and Dempster

So lets put this to bed once and for all

Yes players miss targets, but given the above it is not as bad some make out.

To read posts on here (you know who you are) you would think these guys run at about 25%

fqf

Terry, where can I check these stats out? Ta.

[dragit]

J. geary 74.2 putting him alongside Deledio and Dempster

This would surely suggest that the stats is pretty meaningless on it's own yeah?

Deledio vs Geary - same efficiency percentage, who would you rather kicking the ball to our forwards?

Jones's main problem is his penetration… he has none, he knows it and proceeds to handball 2:1 ratio to kicks… Playing to your strengths is a good idea, but having a guy in the middle every week who isn't confident to take a kick is a disadvantage don't you think?

Let's try and unearth more midfielders with skills… I feel like most games this year we haven't lost through effort, we have been let down by poor execution.

The most notable thing I have heard Watters say was "we need players that can lead by example with skill and not just effort" Pretty sure this why CJ was out of the side last year and he finds himself out of the side again… after probably putting in more effort than any player this year.

Efficiency stats aside, name a midfielder whose kicking is worse than CJ's?

[terry smith rules]

I am so sick of the posts (usually the same people, like dogs with bones) who go on and on about Jones , Geary etc and how bad their disposal is.

You might want to look at some stats, before you continue with your campaigns

The AFL average for disposal efficiency is 70.8 accross all teams, Saints 70.60 so thats ok

C. Jones 69.6 so below average (just) but alongside Burgoyne and Malceski (and you don't see many knocking their efficiency.)

J. geary 74.2 putting him alongside Deledio and Dempster

So lets put this to bed once and for all

Yes players miss targets, but given the above it is not as bad some make out.

To read posts on here (you know who you are) you would think these guys run at about 25%

fqf

Terry, where can I check these stats out? Ta.

i went here and hunted about

http://www.afl.com.au/stats?competition ... Efficiency

[dragit]

Jason Blake 84 % - Gun
Gary Ablett 64 % - Hack

[bigcarl]

C. Jones 69.6 so below average (just)

That's not bad for an inside-ish midfielder. I'd be interested in a comparison against others who play similar positions.

I reckon he (and Gilbert) are marked down because they kick awkwardly, amplified by the fact that both are lefties and it stands out.

Also, kicking isn't the whole game. You have to actually get the pill.

[Uncle Barrels]

If I recall correctly, at one stage in 2009 Zac Dawson and JB were two of the top most efficient disposers of the ball in the AFL..

Stats aren't always illustrative.

But I agree in essence, they're knocked too often.

[bigcarl]

If I recall correctly, at one stage in 2009 Zac Dawson and JB were two of the top most efficient disposers of the ball in the AFL.

Correct. All that chipping it around in the backline. Disposal efficiency means something only when measured against players who play similar roles IMO.

[BigMart]

All of the highest % will probably be back haf players.... For a reason

CJ takes no risks with his disposal.... 25m to a stationary free.... Not a difficult kick

[dragit]

If I recall correctly, at one stage in 2009 Zac Dawson and JB were two of the top most efficient disposers of the ball in the AFL.

Correct. All that chipping it around in the backline. Disposal efficiency means something only when measured against players who play similar roles IMO.

It still means nothing unless you think we have the better player in CJ over Ablett?

Dean Polo probably had a better disposal % than Chris Judd

This stat means absolutely nothing in isolation, honestly.

[bigcarl]

Correct. All that chipping it around in the backline. Disposal efficiency means something only when measured against players who play similar roles IMO.

It still means nothing unless you think we have the better player in CJ over Ablett?

Dean Polo probably had a better disposal % than Chris Judd. This stat means absolutely nothing in isolation, honestly.

Only a fool would think CJ is better than Ablett.

But since CJ is so often pilloried specifically for his disposal efficiency, I think a comparison against others who play similar positions is valid ... in the interests of fairness to the bloke.

And If his disposal efficiency isn't the problem we've been told it is, then what is the issue?

Visually offensive in the awkward manner in which he kicks? Too ugly to the purist's eye to play AFL?

Surely not his attitude, which is first rate.

[bigred]

First couple of rounds we were terrible. Absolutely terrible.

I cant be arsed looking it up but it was tough to watch.

[matrix]

jones has had more kicks this year (by half a dozen or so)
last year it was 116 kicks 191 handballs

[plugger66]

CJ % is ok because he plays within his ability but that also limits his effectiveness. People have a go at Jack for his kicking but he at least tries and succeeds with some brilliant passes sometimes as shown by a few to Rooy on Monday. CJ wouldnt attempt any of those which limits what he can do with the ball. He has to hang on to it and look for other options which slows the play down. Anyone trying to use stats to show CJ is a reasonable kick needs to get to games and watch his kicking when rushed. it is poor at best.

[joffaboy]

CJ % is ok because he plays within his ability but that also limits his effectiveness. People have a go at Jack for his kicking but he at least tries and succeeds with some brilliant passes sometimes as shown by a few to Rooy on Monday. CJ wouldnt attempt any of those which limits what he can do with the ball. He has to hang on to it and look for other options which slows the play down. Anyone trying to use stats to show CJ is a reasonable kick needs to get to games and watch his kicking when rushed. it is poor at best.

Pretty much the crux of the matter. Have seen cj get plenty of the ball during games and thought the opposition coach wouldn't mind that, not because he will waste it, but because his disposal will be just that fraction not quite as quick, or not quite to his teammates advantage, or not quite as penetrating, as say a Dal Santo or Sipposs etc.

As P66 say, cj knows his limitations and plays remarkably well within them. This is the reason why he has managed to become a regular seniors player.

With Jack, some still knock his disposal, but if he is getting 40 possessions and hitting the target 75% of the time, that is 30 effective disposals from a clearance, inside mid. Should be pretty happy with that.