Where does FA stop for us?

[Teflon]

Listening to Caro and the gang led by Loyd bang on about how Dal Santo should pursue a top 4 club next year (admittedly Caro was against it as she felt it was "ripping the heart out of a club") made me think.........is there a point where you just have to hang on to club stars/long term loyal players OR is anyone expendable?

IF everyone is expendable are there a longer term consequence for a club? Can it start to simply be viewed as a revolving door where one nears 30 and is moved on? Is it simply Premier Soccer league time.......you keep your "star" for a few years fully well knowing they'll be shipped off for a good price at some stage??

Is there a benefit at all to a club at all that manages to keep most of its stars as 1 club players?? or is that just an individual thing for the player?

Dal is the current obvious one, Montagna?, Gwilt possibly down track, Fisher....how would we view that if they ran round in opposition colors to end their careers?

I always thought it sad to see Winmar playing in that sh!tty red white and blue number near the end and felt it "cheapened" his stature...(just a personal view - I understand why)

Thoughts?

[saintsRrising]

Thoughts?

I am yet to be convinced that FA will advantage any club other than best resourced ones. Hopefully Pelchen will prove me wrong over the next two years with good FA deals to the Saints.

While not yet the EPL, the systems smacks of the power clubs being able to continually being able to rape and pillage from the other clubs.

A big flaw in the whole FA set up is that the club that gains the player...does not have to provide any compo to get the FA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They get a FA for sweet FA!

As The AFL provides a pick, what really is happening is that all clubs equally compensate as all picks slide down one.
Clubs that lose a FA get compo, but well below true market rate.

[Teflon]

good call SR. Will be interesting say in 5 years what this means and to see how/who benefited from FA.

I suspect you may be right about the richer clubs benefiting ..

[rct63]

If they haven't won a flag, then see ya later.
A bit harsh, but I'm more worried about producing champion teams
rather than champion players.
Kotchitzke and Milne to go but not Dal Santo.
Try him in the back half for the rest of the season and see how that goes.

[Munga]

They should copy the A-League and introduce the marquee players. Have one or two spots on the list outside the cap. You can pay whatever you like.
It allows you to keep your club champions without detriment to the rest of the list.

[mr six o'clock]

the richer clubs will definitely benefit more !

although occasionally a star player who had premiership success will go to a lesser club if offered a huge amount of money !

[ausfatcat]

They should copy the A-League and introduce the marquee players. Have one or two spots on the list outside the cap. You can pay whatever you like.
It allows you to keep your club champions without detriment to the rest of the list.

And the bigger clubs to poach all the stars from other clubs, seriously a bad idea Collingwood, west coast and Adelaide would automatically get all the best players under that idea.

The only thing that makes free agency even remotely ok is the salary take that out of persuasion were fvcked

[Greg T]

Teflon wrote:

Thoughts?

Certainly I feel there is long term benefit in keeping all your playing group together for as long as possible.
Unfortunately many clubs have treated so many players as expendable ,so maybe with free agency any player not
feeling the love may have his chance to move on

Players leave for all sorts of reasons,money being one of them,but certainly not the only one.
Dal santo may feel the urge to have the premiership medallion ,or the security of larger contract from one of the big
Power clubs who will offer him all this.

I certainly think Goddard has elevated Ess,and left a very sour taste back at the saints.
Did he leave for money or perceived success.? What does he know that we don't.?

To me ,Geelong is the strongest argument for keeping all your stars and group together as it builds the absolute
Corner of success for many many generations to come.they just seem to retire.
Who would leave that club.?

See Dal santo leave would further de value our brand I feel.........or any more od our stars.

[Munga]

They should copy the A-League and introduce the marquee players. Have one or two spots on the list outside the cap. You can pay whatever you like.
It allows you to keep your club champions without detriment to the rest of the list.

And the bigger clubs to poach all the stars from other clubs, seriously a bad idea Collingwood, west coast and Adelaide would automatically get all the best players under that idea.

No, just the one or two spots, one would probably suffice.

[plugger66]

Thoughts?

I am yet to be convinced that FA will advantage any club other than best resourced ones. Hopefully Pelchen will prove me wrong over the next two years with good FA deals to the Saints.

While not yet the EPL, the systems smacks of the power clubs being able to continually being able to rape and pillage from the other clubs.

A big flaw in the whole FA set up is that the club that gains the player...does not have to provide any compo to get the FA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They get a FA for sweet FA!

As The AFL provides a pick, what really is happening is that all clubs equally compensate as all picks slide down one.
Clubs that lose a FA get compo, but well below true market rate.

Is there any FA where the club gaining pays. I doubt it otherwise it isnt really FA. Its trading. They need to get rid of the compenasation pick. It should help every club if the club is well run IMO.

[cannavaro17]

How does FA help the rich clubs when they can't spend more than their cap? Also I love Nik ds, but would you let him go for say pick 5... Ie we get pick 4 and 5 in this years draft?

[CURLY]

How does FA help the rich clubs when they can't spend more than their cap? Also I love Nik ds, but would you let him go for say pick 5... Ie we get pick 4 and 5 in this years draft?

Probably the same way as players getting five year Channel 9 deals that run side by side with 5 year club contracts.

[plugger66]

How does FA help the rich clubs when they can't spend more than their cap? Also I love Nik ds, but would you let him go for say pick 5... Ie we get pick 4 and 5 in this years draft?

He is 30 years old. I doubt we would get a first rounder and secondly they may still get rid of compensation picks anyway. It is the only way FA will work properly.

[SaintPav]

Thoughts?

I am yet to be convinced that FA will advantage any club other than best resourced ones. Hopefully Pelchen will prove me wrong over the next two years with good FA deals to the Saints.

While not yet the EPL, the systems smacks of the power clubs being able to continually being able to rape and pillage from the other clubs.

A big flaw in the whole FA set up is that the club that gains the player...does not have to provide any compo to get the FA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They get a FA for sweet FA!

As The AFL provides a pick, what really is happening is that all clubs equally compensate as all picks slide down one.
Clubs that lose a FA get compo, but well below true market rate.

Well that's not exactly true. Bombers did not get BJ for nothing; he's has taken up a large chunk of their salary cap.

[SaintPav]

How does FA help the rich clubs when they can't spend more than their cap? Also I love Nik ds, but would you let him go for say pick 5... Ie we get pick 4 and 5 in this years draft?

He is 30 years old. I doubt we would get a first rounder and secondly they may still get rid of compensation picks anyway. It is the only way FA will work properly.

If that is true, which I don't disagree with, they also need to get rid of things like Swans 10% "living allowance" etc to keep the system pure. The AFL won't though.

[dragit]

They should copy the A-League and introduce the marquee players. Have one or two spots on the list outside the cap. You can pay whatever you like.
It allows you to keep your club champions without detriment to the rest of the list.

And the bigger clubs to poach all the stars from other clubs, seriously a bad idea Collingwood, west coast and Adelaide would automatically get all the best players under that idea.

No, just the one or two spots, one would probably suffice.

How is that going to help? Each club having one player on 2mil per year?

That will just make it harder for the poorer clubs, trying to find that money.

[St Chris]

The problem is the competition has a salary cap*.

The asterix contains all of the fine print. All the sweeteners, GWS & Gold Coast extra dollars, Sydney living allowance, third party deals, veterans status, AFL marketing deals etc.

The third party deals is where a club like the Saints (and North, the Bulldogs, Melbourne etc) get rolled. We struggle enough to get major sponsors, let alone additional sponsorships for certain players, meaningful ones anyway. Greg Westaway can't just write out a $500000 cheque to Goddard and say he's a green ambassador, right? We can't pay players $25000 for a 10 minute interview on the Footy Show.

Not to say we haven't benefited from these deals before, Dal is pretty keen to give a plug to his Mercedes (i think??) mates on Twitter, and Roo was a Toyota ambassador for a while there, it's just that we cant compete with the bigger clubs that can produce these deals for bigger amounts and more consistently.

[saintspremiers]

A big no to trading Rooey. His value is far greater than on field.

He's a Saints icon and right up there with Trevor Barker.

[Teflon]

Teflon wrote:

Thoughts?

Certainly I feel there is long term benefit in keeping all your playing group together for as long as possible.
Unfortunately many clubs have treated so many players as expendable ,so maybe with free agency any player not
feeling the love may have his chance to move on

Players leave for all sorts of reasons,money being one of them,but certainly not the only one.
Dal santo may feel the urge to have the premiership medallion ,or the security of larger contract from one of the big
Power clubs who will offer him all this.

I certainly think Goddard has elevated Ess,and left a very sour taste back at the saints.
Did he leave for money or perceived success.? What does he know that we don't.?

To me ,Geelong is the strongest argument for keeping all your stars and group together as it builds the absolute
Corner of success for many many generations to come.they just seem to retire.
Who would leave that club.?

See Dal santo leave would further de value our brand I feel.........or any more od our stars.

I tend to agree Greg I think long term it weakens a club it basically says "we reward highest bidders and don't really value player loyalty"

[Munga]

How is that going to help? Each club having one player on 2mil per year?

That will just make it harder for the poorer clubs, trying to find that money.

Clubs wouldn't be able to poach stars from other clubs unless they have that spot free. EG the Blues would have Judd as the marquee, they then couldn't poach Gary Ablett as well unless he fits in the normal cap (gets paid with brown paper bags).

[dragit]

How is that going to help? Each club having one player on 2mil per year?

That will just make it harder for the poorer clubs, trying to find that money.

Clubs wouldn't be able to poach stars from other clubs unless they have that spot free. EG the Blues would have Judd as the marquee, they then couldn't poach Gary Ablett as well unless he fits in the normal cap (gets paid with brown paper bags).

I think this is exactly what the cap is meant to do though… Only so many million dollar salaries fit inside the cap.

If say, Spencer White did become the most dominant forward in the game, you can bet that Carlton or Collingwood would be able to double our highest offer if there were no limits… some underworld benefactor would chip in.

[HitTheBoundary]

I tend to agree Greg I think long term it weakens a club it basically says "we reward highest bidders and don't really value player loyalty"

I agree. Massive negative effect on club culture (and the supporters) when senior players leave.
It's hard to have strength through loyalty if there's no loyalty.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

what goes around comes around ... the clubs fighting for the flag at the moment will poach the big names from those on the downward trend therefore putting an high paid older player on their books for a longer period of time.. the club losing the player gets the high draft pick and the cash in the bank free'd up from that player leaving .... in a few years time when the star player is starting to wind down the club will be paying a high $ for this investment that is more than likely going to impact their ability to pay a decent amount to keep their younger star players who are now in their peak as this will more than likely happen as that club is on its down ward trend and the club who lost the player is now on its upward trend the upward club will then poach the younger star player from them. obviously things such as winning a flag will effect that and it more than likely wont be the same team geting "revenge" but at the end of the day it will be a cycle ....




hopefully

[gringo]

I would keep our iconic players as long as possible. No trade put him in a backline role where he can play out his days setting up with skilful kicking.

[maverick]

I wrote this last year about BJ as well.
Whilst I can see the logic in trading out BJ's salary and getting in one or two more youngsters, it risks the fabric of the club and is a major negative to supporters and sponsors.

Dal needs to stay.
As Jake Niall wrote in the age today, a club needs its senior players to pass on the values and the baton if you like to the next generation, whilst they are there next to them in the trenches. A club like Melbourne now and RIchmond previously, devoid of leaders cannot come through and win again.

Look at the Hawks in 2003-2005, Crawford stayed, probably close to the same age as Dal now, and he got the medal in the end.

I don't reckon complete rebuilds work anymore.