Lyon 'acted bizarre'

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Re: Lyon 'acted bizarre'

Post: # 1328108Post Moods »

st_Trav_ofWA wrote:Moorabin man thats a bit rich to pin that clause on the board ... unless you were part of the contract negotiation process how do you know that it wasnt Ross Lyons side that pushed for that clause in the contract ? considering that the clause benifited Ross in a major way i tend to lean to the side that it was Ross who asked for that clause .. thinking about that clause considering when most coaches get sacked its pretty much with a days notice the three month notice clause would have been a safe guard for ross that if he was to be sacked then he had three months security ...

You're kidding aren't you? What coach in his right mind puts a clause like that in a contract? Of course it was done by the board. Lyon wanted security and the board gave him 12 weeks. You call that security? Most coaches get sacked THEN paid out.

THe board were getting jittery because narrow minded silly supporters wanted us to go back to the good ole days and play attractive footy. It was permeating all through the media and the pressure was on. Well we kick more goals these days at least, but strange how ppl still aren't happy.....I wonder why?


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Re: Lyon 'acted bizarre'

Post: # 1328112Post 3rd generation saint »

It appears on my reading of it that the contract had been done through Lyon's manager Craig Kelly, but he shafted him as well and went behind his back to sign with Fremantle.
As for the 12 weeks, Lyon agreed to it when he first signed on, he got a new contract, from which I don't recall the details being released, but it would be safe he got most of what he wanted, otherwise Craig Kelly wouldn't have agreed to it, therefore the 12 weeks everyone refers to was probably null and void with the new contract he was offered.
But no, he still went behind the club and his management to sign a completely separate deal.
I can also guarantee you, if he was still here, we'd be still playing ugly football, and losing just as much, if not worse.
His style of game has been superseded.


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Re: Lyon 'acted bizarre'

Post: # 1328119Post markp »

Surely a new or relatively new coach wishing to establish a long career needs to secure success (flag) or have the total support of the club behind him during leaner years.

Seems to me in lieu of the former Lyon saw the writing on the wall with the latter, and jumped when offered a chance to secure success and guaranteed tenure elsewhere.

I can't believe (for whatever reason, rightly or wrongly) our board were too disappointed he left... because either they weren't really convinced they wanted him, or they totally cocked it up.


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Re: Lyon 'acted bizarre'

Post: # 1328121Post casey scorp »

You are kidding!

There's not too many GF coaches...he'd got us there a few times.

We didn't have the luxury of jettisoning a successful coach. Few clubs do.

I'll go with the latter.


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Re: Lyon 'acted bizarre'

Post: # 1328122Post plugger66 »

3rd generation saint wrote:It appears on my reading of it that the contract had been done through Lyon's manager Craig Kelly, but he shafted him as well and went behind his back to sign with Fremantle.
As for the 12 weeks, Lyon agreed to it when he first signed on, he got a new contract, from which I don't recall the details being released, but it would be safe he got most of what he wanted, otherwise Craig Kelly wouldn't have agreed to it, therefore the 12 weeks everyone refers to was probably null and void with the new contract he was offered.
But no, he still went behind the club and his management to sign a completely separate deal.
I can also guarantee you, if he was still here, we'd be still playing ugly football, and losing just as much, if not worse.
His style of game has been superseded.

So how did freo go so well last year. As much as most dont like RL now that he has left its amazing that opeople who have no bias rate him in the top 3 coaches in the AFl. Im glad he left because I think it was time but I am also sure RL has made adjustment to his coaching at Froe. He is a very smart coach.


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Re: Lyon 'acted bizarre'

Post: # 1328123Post Teflon »

I think you let Thomas off a lot

Sure he has issues with Butters but from all reports he had issues with more people than Butters

I question Thomas's game plan with arguably a better list and I don't believe Grant had the tactical nous to take us on a 19 straight season. He also had his shocking recruiting so apart from being gifted some very good draft choices and a disgruntled Hamill/Gehrig after more cash ... I'm not convinced of this so called "long term plan for the list"

Lyon did a lot wrong - both men megalomaniacs . One can't get a job the other went back to back GF's before being poached for 1.5m.


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Re: Lyon 'acted bizarre'

Post: # 1328129Post plugger66 »

Teflon wrote:I think you let Thomas off a lot

Sure he has issues with Butters but from all reports he had issues with more people than Butters

I question Thomas's game plan with arguably a better list and I don't believe Grant had the tactical nous to take us on a 19 straight season. He also had his shocking recruiting so apart from being gifted some very good draft choices and a disgruntled Hamill/Gehrig after more cash ... I'm not convinced of this so called "long term plan for the list"

Lyon did a lot wrong - both men megalomaniacs . One can't get a job the other went back to back GF's before being poached for 1.5m.

I think you are harsh on GT. I dont see how you can blame him for the recruiting. It seems the problem with recruiting is we didnt spend enough money on it. Also im also pretty sure GT had no interest in getting another job in the AFL. I reckon he earns a fair bit more outside the AFL.


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Re: Lyon 'acted bizarre'

Post: # 1328132Post markp »

casey scorp wrote:You are kidding!

There's not too many GF coaches...he'd got us there a few times.

We didn't have the luxury of jettisoning a successful coach. Few clubs do.

I'll go with the latter.
So did I initially, but I now think there must've been tensions, doubts, and palpable hesitations about whether he was the man for the next phase... as I said, rightly or wrongly.


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Re: Lyon 'acted bizarre'

Post: # 1328137Post stinger »

judas never turned out to be yesterday's hero..but he is today's fish and chips wrapper.....he's gone and good riddance.. freo is welcome to him and his pansy silly walk...........the book might make a few quid for the saints but it's still raking over old coals and yesterday's cat sh!t........ :roll: :roll:

...i would much prefer to move on and concentrate on scotty and his good points..... :wink:


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Re: Lyon 'acted bizarre'

Post: # 1328146Post Moorabbin Man »

St Lenny wrote:
Moorabbin Man wrote:I think everyone is overlooking the indisputable fact that after Lyon had taken us to two Grand Finals at the end of 2010, he still had a clause in his contract that enabled his contract to be terminated with three months (12 weeks) notice. So in effect a coach who had taken us to two successive Grand Finals and was arguably the best coach in the competition, was left on a contract which was in reality and practically, a 12 week contract. Don't any of you think that this was a disgraceful set of circumstances. Sure the circumstances surrounding Lyon's departure were disappointing, however IMO his contract was a disgrace and that responsibility lays at the feet of the Board.
No, I don't agree at all. We tried to negotiate a new contract, he stuffed us around and then walked out. If he didn't like the original contract, he should have signed it in the first place.
So why didn't they attempt to lock him in immediately after the 2010 season?


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Re: Lyon 'acted bizarre'

Post: # 1328157Post Greg T »

I am looking forward to the book will be great read.
I suppose if you look back over the last 15 years most of what happens at the saints
Seems bizarre.
Maybe Ross was burnt out needed cash,has enough etc etc.
2 losing grand finals and all the other stuff dished out at our footy club took its toll.
Players seemed to like him and were upset when he left.
What's more bizarre was that idiot Butters being president
GT was a great coach who really loved the club.So we sacked him.
Bizarre , or just another chapter at the st.kilda FC.....just love em,,,,,
Last edited by Greg T on Wed 01 May 2013 9:40pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Lyon 'acted bizarre'

Post: # 1328158Post skeptic »

I find it staggering that ppl think our board couldn't put together a contract in 7 months or however long it took until RL left.

To me it's pretty clear what happened. We were playing poor footy and RL was having his own personal problems. He stalled contract talks until he could get the team playing better so as to leverage a better offer. He took the best one he got.

It was never about us jerking him around

Let me ask you this... why didn't RL call the Nets on the day and say Freo have made this offer and given me 24hrs to think about about... beat it or I'm taking it?

It was never about the saints. RL is trying promote himself as the master coach knowing that he's living on the illusion that he takes clubs to success evidenced by his W/L ration... which would be damaged by him having to rebuild a club.

IMO it's as clear as day that RL stalled in the hope that something would happen which it did. I don't see how you can blame the board for it. His next move will be to bail on Freo after they peek.

Will be very interesting to see what happens if they don't win a premiership


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Re: Lyon 'acted bizarre'

Post: # 1328163Post Spinner »

matrix wrote:GT wouldnt have had luke ball on the f****** bench during the crucial time

GT never got to a GF...

Let alone a crucial time within one.


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Re: Lyon 'acted bizarre'

Post: # 1328170Post Teflon »

plugger66 wrote:
Teflon wrote:I think you let Thomas off a lot

Sure he has issues with Butters but from all reports he had issues with more people than Butters

I question Thomas's game plan with arguably a better list and I don't believe Grant had the tactical nous to take us on a 19 straight season. He also had his shocking recruiting so apart from being gifted some very good draft choices and a disgruntled Hamill/Gehrig after more cash ... I'm not convinced of this so called "long term plan for the list"

Lyon did a lot wrong - both men megalomaniacs . One can't get a job the other went back to back GF's before being poached for 1.5m.

I think you are harsh on GT. I dont see how you can blame him for the recruiting. It seems the problem with recruiting is we didnt spend enough money on it. Also im also pretty sure GT had no interest in getting another job in the AFL. I reckon he earns a fair bit more outside the AFL.
Lyon seems to routinely be blamed for recruiting as head coach but Grant's immune? - odd.

Lets get real GT couldn't get another job in AFL circles - as usual he'd burnt all bridges there. Lets remember Grant got a lot of his coin for the Brighton house purchase by befriending then duding a dopey Butters (who is wealthy) only after using that friendship to be placed in a well paid, senior AFL coaching role with no apprenticeship and only Warnambool as his coaching claim to fame...

Time is already being kind on here to Grant's legacy..I recall by 2006 being overrun by Melbourne in finals ....his "tacical brilliance" was exhasuted by then and as usual we were left with "man management" corporate KPI, cliched-drivel after a loss all based on emotion. Interestingly that style of one trick coaching went out in the 60's and bringing it back never provides sustainable results....ask Danny Frawley...

To be fair, I do think after the Blight fiasco we needed a strong Saints person in charge and Grant was good , along with Butters, at steadying the ship BUT I still believe he then over stayed his welcome and started reading/believing his own press and hung on to long damaging the club till we ultimately had to pay him out to be rid of him.

I was intrigued to read today how 2 then Board members wanted to sack Thomas even if he won a GF such was their disdain for the man - one only has to listen to him speak to understand why that would be.


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Re: Lyon 'acted bizarre'

Post: # 1328177Post Harvey To Hayes »

saintbrat wrote:still up here -http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/afl ... 6632573755

and link at top working-

but not sure if there is an incorrect date or editing required when they say about kepping Blight till the end of 2011 ( I would think it should be 2001)
Oh of course. I was so bemused when I read it earlier and it said Thommo was the only one trying to lock Blight in until the end of 2011....


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Re: Lyon 'acted bizarre'

Post: # 1328178Post Harvey To Hayes »

Moorabbin Man wrote:I think everyone is overlooking the indisputable fact that after Lyon had taken us to two Grand Finals at the end of 2010, he still had a clause in his contract that enabled his contract to be terminated with three months (12 weeks) notice. So in effect a coach who had taken us to two successive Grand Finals and was arguably the best coach in the competition, was left on a contract which was in reality and practically, a 12 week contract. Don't any of you think that this was a disgraceful set of circumstances. Sure the circumstances surrounding Lyon's departure were disappointing, however IMO his contract was a disgrace and that responsibility lays at the feet of the Board.
Your understanding of contracts is so fundamentally flawed it's basically impossible to know where to begin...


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Re: Lyon 'acted bizarre'

Post: # 1328179Post BigMart »

GT also lost

A.Hamill, M.Maguire, M.Hudghton, S.Fisher, J.Koschitzke, x.Clarke..... All at the pointy end of seasons


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Re: Lyon 'acted bizarre'

Post: # 1328181Post ausfatcat »

Warnambool as his coaching claim to fame...
Which didn't end exactly the best way either


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Re: Lyon 'acted bizarre'

Post: # 1328184Post Teflon »

BigMart wrote:GT also lost

A.Hamill, M.Maguire, M.Hudghton, S.Fisher, J.Koschitzke, x.Clarke..... All at the pointy end of seasons
Good point - at what point did he decide to keep playing Luke Ball?


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Re: Lyon 'acted bizarre'

Post: # 1328185Post Greg T »

I would have thought after the 2010 season that The St.k board would have moved quickly
to ensure the continued success of the club.
Maybe there was truth in the fact that the perception was the club was playing ugly footy,
But I certainly remember how awesome it was winning 19 straight,keeping the other sides
to ridiculously low scores, going to games with absolute confidence knowing we would crush them.
It was a very euphoric time in our history,but didn't last long enough.
I would of thought from a commercial point of view that Lyon would have been locked away and
build on the success we had achieved.
I'm sure any club would have him as a coach,hes done a great job with Freo,who aren't so easy beats now.
Although there has been dramatic change since then,better football depot,more coaches etc,
On wonders how successful all this will be .Watters has shitloads to prove ,Lyon already did.


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Re: Lyon 'acted bizarre'

Post: # 1328188Post Teflon »

Good post Greg.

But I am watching Lyon at Freo with interest - they will lose Sandilands, Mcpharlin, Pav's getting on (been v lucky injury wise till now).......sure, has some good mids......but those are KPP and hard to replace. Ross willhave to either develop OR go shopping. I expect Freo to make massive offers end year.

Can he develop? can he build a list? aka Malthouse re building Pies after failing early 00's THAT IMO is a true test of a great coach.

Watching Freo sneak home against Tigers I couldnt help but feel they were lucky and still struggling to score, unable to put a side away. I think against quality opposition with some flair that game plan falls over. The game has past it by so Freo might have just paid 1.5m for last years newspaper....time will tell.


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Re: Lyon 'acted bizarre'

Post: # 1328191Post skeptic »

Greg T wrote:I would have thought after the 2010 season that The St.k board would have moved quickly
to ensure the continued success of the club.
hadn't they though? He was locked in til 2012 and stalled negotiations in 2011 when the team was struggling


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Re: Lyon 'acted bizarre'

Post: # 1328192Post skeptic »

Teflon wrote: Watching Freo sneak home against Tigers I couldnt help but feel they were lucky and still struggling to score, unable to put a side away. I think against quality opposition with some flair that game plan falls over. The game has past it by so Freo might have just paid 1.5m for last years newspaper....time will tell.
Interesting thoughts Tef,

I watched that game and remembered how much better the Saints looked under Lyon when they had to reign in a lead as opposed to defending one. There seems to be something about that game style that seems to stop the club from burying its opposition.

In 09 we looked $1million when we had a full list to pick from, I wonder if maybe the quality in combination with the fitness of that list contributed to our 19 in a row more than we all thought.

Sigh, either way them GF losses still hurt


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Re: Lyon 'acted bizarre'

Post: # 1328194Post Greg T »

Teflon wrote:Good post Greg.

But I am watching Lyon at Freo with interest - they will lose Sandilands, Mcpharlin, Pav's getting on (been v lucky injury wise till now).......sure, has some good mids......but those are KPP and hard to replace. Ross willhave to either develop OR go shopping. I expect Freo to make massive offers end year.

Can he develop? can he build a list? aka Malthouse re building Pies after failing early 00's THAT IMO is a true test of a great coach.

Watching Freo sneak home against Tigers I couldnt help but feel they were lucky and still struggling to score, unable to put a side away. I think against quality opposition with some flair that game plan falls over. The game has past it by so Freo might have just paid 1.5m for last years newspaper....time will tell.
Cheers Teflon
I also watch with interest,but I can't help but feel that in his short time there ,they are a well drilled accomplished side
from the Harvey coaching which Freo were clearly an easy beats side.
They have clearly taken some bigger scalps,win the closer games ,just a better unit I feel.
Maybe they were lucky against the tigers ,but they stopped them winning.Point taken.
Your right about ,chq book,recruiting etc.1.5 is a lot for last years paper.
What's worse for us were taking interest in Freo cause of Ross.Never would of thought that


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Re: Lyon 'acted bizarre'

Post: # 1328195Post Teflon »

I agree Skeptic.

I actually think Lyon will find out just how talented a group he had at St Kilda cause IMO Freo's is nowhere near as balanced across the park.

I suppose in some respects if Lyons only trick is a lock down game style that failed with a talented squad....can anyone blame him for taking 1.5m? - if Freo fails with that game style and its shown he cant adapt.....I guess its his last hurrah.


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