Do we have the dumbest players in the AFL?

[skeptic]

This is something that's been bothering me for a while now...

I've watched Geelong play a few times this season... Hawthorn and Essendon to. It's remarkable... When their players run to a loose ball in a contest, often they make the effort to get into the path of their direct opponent to place themselves between them and the ball... or hey bump them to the side... fend them off with their hands etc

A lot of the time you see that if they have team mates a few meters ahead or the ball is bouncing erratically... they simply tap/punch the ball forward/back towards their teamate and shephard/ run forward for the recieve. In the air, if they can't mark, they intentionally bring the ball towards the crumbers at the contest... tap it forward, punch it out the back... backman are especially good at this when spoiling.

Once they get the ball with numbers 2 VS 1, 3 VS 2 etc, players have a tendency to either draw the opposition forward and pass over the top, challenge the opponent directly and get a shephard and so forth whilst when outnumbered... opposition teams have a tendency to often manage to stall and make a contest w/o getting pinged for holding the ball

When tackling... have you ever noticed how Geelong in particular tend to go for the oppositions arms so that they can't get off a handball? They're great at it... a tackle usually = the ball going back into dispute

I guess what I'm getting at is that when I say dumbest players I don't mean they're stupid but poorly trained/drilled.

Things I saw on Saturday that we consistently do:

* In the backline, when under pressure we frequently do short kicks and handballs to contests... Whilst other teams go long towards the boundary line to designated areas safe in the knowledge that there will be players waiting their for the contest... they do this even w/o looking as though it's a basic team rule. We on the other hand frequently pass it short to players under the pump or do ridculous handballs into our own teammates... how many times have we seen that... or kick to players that aren't clear.

* We're absolutely hopeless with the concept of the third man up to spoil... so many contests we have 2-3 guys their to spoil but none of them do it... or they trip over each other, get in each others way or low and behold take each other out. Or we have all 3 guys go up and no one stays down so the crumbers get it. My other personal favorite... how often do we overcommit to a contest... dive at the ball to get a fist to it only to miss and the oppositon sit out the back as the ball pops up and off they go with our man out of the contest (looking at you Sam Gilbert).

As a basic rule of thumb, our ability to stay on our feet in contests is terrible... we constantly fall over... and even more embarrassing we frequently fall over when the ball bounces and we have to change direction to go to it... its as though we're horrible at both changing direction and reading the ball... I know it's an oval shape but come on

* IMO we are hands down the worst team when it comes to the advantage rule... opposition tends to either have awareness and alredy know what to do or make a quick judgement to play on... we do what David Armitage did in the 3rd I think... take a mark inside 50m, play on immediately w/o knowing what's infornt... run into a contest and turn it over... we're just as bad on the fast break ala the second 1/4 when the result of our purge forward was a quick kick short to Roo in a contest...

How many times inside 50m do we see players have shots when they should pass... or pass when they should have shots.. that Doozy from Milera (I think) kicking to the top of the square from 40m out nearly directly in front.

* How about kicking to the advantage of our forwards... ala not kicking a highball to Saad one out when he has a taller opponent... or say kicking it over Roo/Maister and letting them run back into it.

I felt sooo sorry for Maister today... after a brilliant start when he positioned himself well for the 1st 2 contests and got the marks/free kicks due to good passing... I don't think his effort was rewarded again until the last 1/4... frequently the ball was put over his head... far to his left etc AND this guy IS SMART and positions himself really well. We made him look so average. Very frustrating.
I think in the 4th 1/4 when he dropped an easy mark it had been so long since the ball actually came to him to his advantage that he was shocked and completely unprepared to not have to suddenly jerk violently to the left or right... never for a second did he think the ball would come to him.

SOmebody seriously needs to teach these guys how to play football.

Seriously... Riewoldt, Monty, McEvoy, Stanley, Maister and Roberton... despite varying in performance seemed to be about the only players that knew what the hell they were doing!!!!

[Con Gorozidis]

Great Post.

We seem to be seriously a long way off the top 6 sides in all of those areas you identified.

[WellardSaint]

Agree on all counts. Hard to believe we beat Carlton twice last year.
Now we are trying furiously to win the Gumby Cup from the Demons.
Unless the coaches can change attitudes and training drills, we couldn't beat the Seaford U12 girls netball team.

[oh when the]

We have players who do not read the play,they lack skills, and go to ground too easily.

If you are slow, then you must man up at the stoppages. Not give your opponent space because you will never catch them.

We do not make a contest when the opposition have the ball.
And we do not take shots for goal.

Last night we saw a club that plays to win premierships and a club that plays to participate. You can work out which is St Kilda.

We can see the effects of high altitude training!!! money well spent!!!

[cwrcyn]

Peptides work better than high altitude training

[The Redeemer]

We have CJ who runs around disposing the ball to anyone that moves. This equals dumbest player in the league.

Milera and TDL are fast approaching with their space-guarding abilities

[spert]

Our players are dumb alright.. I shouted over the fence to our players "what's the square root of 256" and none of them could give the right answer

[ShanghaiSaint]

Great Post.

We seem to be seriously a long way off the top 6 sides in all of those areas you identified.

we sure are... watched cats play friday night. they are playing great...

[BigMart]

Yes we do

Gilbert and Steven are probably the worst decision makers I've seen play AFL in a while.... The lack composure and smarts.

Jacks decision to play on a second time last year under pressure last season when we had a free kick 10m out (Kosi) and miss the goal was the strangest decision I can think of. Gilbo and Jack run hard, but run around like kids playing juniors and their deplorable kicking is often due to indecision.

Which I suppose makes their success a credit to them. In a way. They do try harder than many.

[plugger66]

Yes we do

Gilbert and Steven are probably the worst decision makers I've seen play AFL in a while.... The lack composure and smarts.

Jacks decision to play on a second time last year under pressure last season when we had a free kick 10m out (Kosi) and miss the goal was the strangest decision I can think of. Gilbo and Jack run hard, but run around like kids playing juniors and their deplorable kicking is often due to indecision.

Which I suppose makes their success a credit to them. In a way. They do try harder than many.

We must be unlucky. We have 2 players in the one side who are the worst decision makers in the AFL in a while.

[borderbarry]

I have not seen any decent coaching moves yet either.

[Junction Oval]

Sitting reasonably close to fence, as I do, when the play gets close, you get a good sense of what is actually happening on the ground. Last night, I could see (and hear) that Essendon were working to a plan at all times, whether at boundary throw-ins, stoppages, or moving the ball forward.

We seemed non-plussed and mentally, over-awed. The Bombers knew "exactly' what the game plan was. Perhaps, it was simply the Bombers constant pressure that we couldn't handle.

[bobmurray]

Our players are dumb alright.. I shouted over the fence to our players "what's the square root of 256" and none of them could give the right answer

[snowdelisaint]

Our players are dumb alright.. I shouted over the fence to our players "what's the square root of 256" and none of them could give the right answer

Well I distinctly heard Rooey answer "16" and then Milney saying "plus or minus, plus or minus". Sam Gilbert just looked confused, I think he would like to root a square but was not entirely sure how it would work

[whiskers3614]

Answer to the OP.
Don.t you realise Dawson now a Docker!

[stinger]

bumped


according to the op....


"SOmebody seriously needs to teach these guys how to play football.

Seriously... Riewoldt, Monty, McEvoy, Stanley, Maister and Roberton... despite varying in performance seemed to be about the only players that knew what the hell they were doing!!!!"









and here's me thinking that everyone loves lenny.......seems someone doesn't....

[mightysainters]

We have Kosi and Gilbert... the two worst in the AFL...

[mad saint guy]

Poor skills and decision making are our main problem. The smartest, most skilled players generally go first in the draft. We have had late draft picks and wasted the few high ones we've had on athletes and role players. We need 6-7 pure footballers to add to the team. We've always been trying to find the player whose deficiencies don't hurt us too badly, but those deficiencies are usually skill and smarts.

So yes, I'd say we do have the dumbest players in the league. We haven't had access to the smartest ones and have picked players on athletic potential rather than football ability

[Beekay]

we do.
i've been adamant in that regard for a long time.

One thing that drives me bonkers is our inability to hold up an opposition player when he takes the mark/recieves a free. The amount of times an opposing player is clearly going to take a mark, then, at the last nano-second, one of our players tries to go for the ball, misses, falls 1m+ out of the picture, and allows the opposition player an easy 20m run through the guts..

In general, we seem to be witches hats while manning the mark or closing in on a player.

And another one that grinds the gears. How is it that opposition players can constantly dispose so cleanly while they've got two Sainters climbing all over them? It seems the more we scrag and corral opposition players, the higher their efficiency..

[skeptic]

bumped


according to the op....


"SOmebody seriously needs to teach these guys how to play football.

Seriously... Riewoldt, Monty, McEvoy, Stanley, Maister and Roberton... despite varying in performance seemed to be about the only players that knew what the hell they were doing!!!!"









and here's me thinking that everyone loves lenny.......seems someone doesn't....

some ppl can think abstractly... for example they read the title, and u/s the context in which it was meant

others take everything literally and only see the bad words that hurt their feelings. It must be hard Stinger when you see other forumites get it and you can't figure it out.

EDIT

On Lenny Hayes... He's one of the greatest footballers I've ever had the pleasure of watching.

He is effort personified. He is the embodiment of 100% 100% of the time. He's tough as nails, courageous and his attack on the ball is second to non. No doubt will one day be in our hall of fame. But even the most die-hard Lenny Hayes fan would concede that his footy smarts is not his strongest attribute. It's not terrible but it's certainly not his strength. He's not a player renowned for kicking it to the right spot every time, always picking the right option, or running into damaging places.
He's a very Robert Harvey like player with one obvious difference being that Harve's was known as one of the smartest when it came to kicking to forwards... not because his disposal was perfect ala Ablett but he knew where to kick, where to position etc

I love Lenny but unlike yourself Stinger I don't see the world through rose colored glasses. I can acknowledge my heroes aren't perfect.


Nice bump by the way... had to think real hard about a comeback line I bet as you certainly didn't raise the thread to discuss the topic as others have done around you

[sunsaint]

Yes
and thank you skeptic for having the guts to say it
the tackling issue is a big one for me - for the last 5 years we have been playing for stoppages, tackle, kill the play, ball up
the rule changes and the better sides are keeping their feet in the tackle, and stripping the ball off the opposition and playing on.
During the GOold coast suns game I watched their ruckman whack the ball straight over the boundary from a throw in (free kick to us) only ONE of our players appealed to the ump at the time, - & surprisingly that was a QLDer in Armitage

[Junction Oval]

I thought that an enormous amount of time is dedicated to game planning & team strategies. Either a) the strategies/planning is shite, (b) the Coach can't communicate, (c) the players are not on-board/listening, (d) they are all simply dumb!

It's very interesting to see how well the top teams organise themselves and move the ball. They seem to create more space for each other. "Delivery" is another key factor in putting the opposition under pressure.

[stinger]

as i told you before septic...i don't read your posts...the headlines was enough for me......was only later that i did....still a crap post ...imho...i don't rubbish saints players...never have...never will....unlike you.....

[Middo]

Yes we do

Gilbert and Steven are probably the worst decision makers I've seen play AFL in a while.... The lack composure and smarts.

Jacks decision to play on a second time last year under pressure last season when we had a free kick 10m out (Kosi) and miss the goal was the strangest decision I can think of. Gilbo and Jack run hard, but run around like kids playing juniors and their deplorable kicking is often due to indecision.

Which I suppose makes their success a credit to them. In a way. They do try harder than many.

You've never noticed Jones...??? If Steven is not a better kick and decision maker than Jones well maybe you really do know your shite ..!!

[dragit]

as i told you before septic...i don't read your posts...the headlines was enough for me......was only later that i did....still a crap post ...imho...i don't rubbish saints players...never have...never will....unlike you.....

Strange that you continue to reply to someone who's posts you don't read.