St Kilda's Rising Stars Nominees

[saintwill66]

With the Saints all but gone for season 2013 it is timely to reflect on the standard of recruiting by St Kilda in the past 5 years. There is probably no better guide than to look at how St Kilda's recruits have fared in the past 6 years in the AFL Rising Stars awards, and it presents a sorry picture:

2007 - Sam Gilbert
2009 - Jason Geary
2011 - Jack Steven

That's it......and maybe if we maintain this pattern then we are due one in 2013 - Nathan Wright maybe??

I don't have time to analyse how this compares with other teams, but I would be surprised if this does not place St Kilda in the bottom 4 of AFL Rising Stars awards during this period.

We are regularly told that St Kilda has a highly rated team of recruiters, but that just does not seem to me to stack up on the above statistics.

I have been a loyal Saints supporter for over 50 years and will always remain so - but I am getting a bit fed up with pronouncements from the club that everything is on track to continue the success the team enjoyed in 2009-2011, and that the recruitment team is among the best in the league.

The reality is that St Kilda has no option but to go into wholesale re-build. We have to face the facts that Nick Riewoldt, Lenny Hayes, Justin Koschitske, Jason Blake and Stephen Milne are on their last legs; even Nick Dal Santo, Sam Fisher, Leigh Montana, all aged 29, are unlikely to be part of future success.

I am not confident that we have new players on the list that are anywhere near ready (or even have the potential) to fill the shoes of the 8 players I have listed.

My biggest disappointment this year is that St Kilda re-appointed Nick Riewoldt captain for 2013 - his kicking yips alone should disqualify him from leading the team, because if nothing else "leading by example" is a major element to inspire the team. Fine player that he once was, he is well past his prime and I'm sure the debate will go long and hard on whether or not he is/was ever the superstar beloved of commentators!

On the subject of recruitment, it is no accident that the big-money clubs are much better at recruiting new blood than those without financial muscle, like St Kilda. The draft may well be designed to even the competition with low-finishing teams getting first chop at the drafts. In reality though, clubs with the most money are able to spend far more on their recruitment personnel, to analyse the raw recruits and therefore to be far better at defining the potential of the new talent. It is not simply a case of selecting 1st or 2nd round draft picks, but the 3rd and 4th level talent that is so crucial to developing depth in playing lists.

Anyway, I feel better for getting this off my chest - I don't expect anyone to agree with my views, so feel free to present counter-views.....and GO SAINTS!!!

[stinger]

With the Saints all but gone for season 2013 it is timely to reflect on the standard of recruiting by St Kilda in the past 5 years. There is probably no better guide than to look at how St Kilda's recruits have fared in the past 6 years in the AFL Rising Stars awards, and it presents a sorry picture:

2007 - Sam Gilbert
2009 - Jason Geary
2011 - Jack Steven

That's it......and maybe if we maintain this pattern then we are due one in 2013 - Nathan Wright maybe??

I don't have time to analyse how this compares with other teams, but I would be surprised if this does not place St Kilda in the bottom 4 of AFL Rising Stars awards during this period.

We are regularly told that St Kilda has a highly rated team of recruiters, but that just does not seem to me to stack up on the above statistics.

I have been a loyal Saints supporter for over 50 years and will always remain so - but I am getting a bit fed up with pronouncements from the club that everything is on track to continue the success the team enjoyed in 2009-2011, and that the recruitment team is among the best in the league.

The reality is that St Kilda has no option but to go into wholesale re-build. We have to face the facts that Nick Riewoldt, Lenny Hayes, Justin Koschitske, Jason Blake and Stephen Milne are on their last legs; even Nick Dal Santo, Sam Fisher, Leigh Montana, all aged 29, are unlikely to be part of future success.

I am not confident that we have new players on the list that are anywhere near ready (or even have the potential) to fill the shoes of the 8 players I have listed.

My biggest disappointment this year is that St Kilda re-appointed Nick Riewoldt captain for 2013 - his kicking yips alone should disqualify him from leading the team, because if nothing else "leading by example" is a major element to inspire the team. Fine player that he once was, he is well past his prime and I'm sure the debate will go long and hard on whether or not he is/was ever the superstar beloved of commentators!

On the subject of recruitment, it is no accident that the big-money clubs are much better at recruiting new blood than those without financial muscle, like St Kilda. The draft may well be designed to even the competition with low-finishing teams getting first chop at the drafts. In reality though, clubs with the most money are able to spend far more on their recruitment personnel, to analyse the raw recruits and therefore to be far better at defining the potential of the new talent. It is not simply a case of selecting 1st or 2nd round draft picks, but the 3rd and 4th level talent that is so crucial to developing depth in playing lists.

Anyway, I feel better for getting this off my chest - I don't expect anyone to agree with my views, so feel free to present counter-views.....and GO SAINTS!!!

fairly well thought out and argued post actually ....

[SainterK]

A lot of this has to do with being competitive for so long, and not having low picks though.

[Eastern]

I'd say DON'T RUSH TOO MANY YOUNGSTERS INTO THE SIDE;

We already have/had Wright (2 games), Siposs (2nd year), Saad (2nd year), Milera (2nd year), Ross (2nd year) Simpkin, Hickey, Stanley, TDL, Lee & Maister (all bugger all experience). We also have White, Webster, Ledger and others waiting in the wings.

Our BIGGEST PROBLEM is a lack of players in the 75-120 game bracket. Armo, Jack & Benny are in this category and are thriving at the moment. Armo & Jack have had Lenny, Dal, Joey etc to guide them, Ben had Kingy & Gardi guiding him, so, that looks to be a pretty good model. Rhys is almost into that category and has Kosi guiding him.

What I am trying to get to here is; WE CAN"T HAVE TOO MANY YOUNG/INEXPERIENCED PLAYERS IN THE SIDE TOGETHER. We have the vetrans to guide them but we don't have enough 23-27year olds with 75-120 game experience to PROTECT a large percentage of youngsters.

What's the ideal number of these young/inexperienced players in the side at any given time? I would say 3-4 Max and rotate them, although that may NOT be possible at times with injuries etc.

Summing our list up could be described as "Heaps of Vetrans, Heaps of Kids and Bugger All in between". There is no quick fix to this. IT'S GOING TO TAKE TIME (I reckon we'll have the balance nearly right by 2015). In the meantime I believe we are giong to be a bit of a Yo-Yo team (up one week-down the next) !!

[Beno88]

Arryn Siposs was nominated in Round 15 last year.

[dragit]

I'd say DON'T RUSH TOO MANY YOUNGSTERS INTO THE SIDE;

Our BIGGEST PROBLEM is a lack of players in the 75-120 game bracket.

The thing is though… if we play the 3-4 youngsters per week… when these 150+ gamers retire, 90% of our list will have played under 20 games. This is when the real pain starts.

You can't get to 75 games without playing… 10, 20, 30 etc

[Old Mate]

Three reasons:
1. Competitive over an extended period;
2. Lack of quality kids; and
3. Unwillingness to play 1st and 2nd year players.

I would have liked another 1-2 nominations last year but I can understand Watters desire to play best avail given it was his first year and we were close to playing finals.

No excuses now, we should really see 2 nominations a year for the next few seasons.

[stinger]

You can't get to 75 games without playing… 10, 20, 30 etc

really..i didn't know that....thanks for being so informing....

[St Chris]

I would love to know the stats of having Rising Stars nominated for games against us.

I've thought for a long time that there we would be a lot above the average, but maybe it's just a perception.

I dont expect anyone to have the stats, but has anyone else thought that we get a lot against us??

[Eastern]

I'd say DON'T RUSH TOO MANY YOUNGSTERS INTO THE SIDE;

Our BIGGEST PROBLEM is a lack of players in the 75-120 game bracket.

The thing is though… if we play the 3-4 youngsters per week… when these 150+ gamers retire, 90% of our list will have played under 20 games. This is when the real pain starts.

You can't get to 75 games without playing… 10, 20, 30 etc

Agree, but I don't like the thought of TOO MANY youngsters/inexperienced players in the side at the same time. If we rotate say 7 players into 4 spots they will end up with 12-14 games per year each. I also know we might need to fast track a few and that will lead to a bit more short term pain !!

[kosifantutti]

I would love to know the stats of having Rising Stars nominated for games against us.

I've thought for a long time that there we would be a lot above the average, but maybe it's just a perception.

I dont expect anyone to have the stats, but has anyone else thought that we get a lot against us??

It's usually a reward for playing well over a few games so it doesn't really matter who they played against.

[dragit]

I'd say DON'T RUSH TOO MANY YOUNGSTERS INTO THE SIDE;

Our BIGGEST PROBLEM is a lack of players in the 75-120 game bracket.

The thing is though… if we play the 3-4 youngsters per week… when these 150+ gamers retire, 90% of our list will have played under 20 games. This is when the real pain starts.

You can't get to 75 games without playing… 10, 20, 30 etc

Agree, but I don't like the thought of TOO MANY youngsters/inexperienced players in the side at the same time. If we rotate say 7 players into 4 spots they will end up with 12-14 games per year each. I also know we might need to fast track a few and that will lead to a bit more short term pain !!

I don't like the thought of too many either…

Just think it's either 'a few' too many inexperienced players now, rather than a whole side of inexperienced players in 2 years time.

Don't envy Watters right now, hope they give him plenty of time regardless of win/loss.

[saintspremiers]

A lot of this has to do with being competitive for so long, and not having low picks though.

just like geelong

[Old Mate]

Actually the Cats had bugger all between their flags but started playing the kids more, and being rewarded with nominations, once their flag run finished and are now reaping the rewards.

2007 - Hawkins & Selwood
2008 - None
2009 - None
2010 - None
2011 - Duncan, Menzel & Christiansen
2012 - Motlop

[CURLY]

A lot of this has to do with being competitive for so long, and not having low picks though.

just like geelong

You mean Geelong who got SELWOOD and HAWKINS and gave up zero for finished two places below us? Fair leg up right there.

[spert]

We need to get games in to the next generation of Saints without fail and within reason. Teams should be selected on form, not reputations, and at the moment a few of our more experienced players are not showing a lot, and selecting a less experienced player might provide a rocket to some of those who are coasting along. I think Scotty is prepared to play youth, so let's see who comes through with the goods.