Drafting now starting to show

[Winmar7Fan]

Why is it to me it seems so obvious we were going to need serious recruiting to replace all these talented aging players over recent years but the club haven't really seemed to act heavily on it as if we have all we need to just continue on with virtually what we have?

Every Year we have lost our top talent to retirement or switching clubs and you dont need to be a genius to see this is only going to continue with players such as Milne, Hayes, Montagna, Fisher, Dempster, Jones, Riewoldt on the decline coming toward the end of their careers.

So what serious action have we seemed to have taken?

Every pre season draft in recent years while top teams with young lists full of talent with lower priority such as Collingwood have been able to find a way to pick up top available players in three way deals such as Ball, Jolly, Lynch etc to become stronger, we have seemed to always come out with virtually nothing and don't seem to make any attempt.

I know we all like to be optimistic but realistically who is going to replace these guys and fill there shoes at the top and lead us to a flag. Milera, Saad, Stanley etc maybe ok as support roles but IMO they will never be a Hayes or Montagna and they are the shoes that are coming up to needing to be filled.

Is it only me that has seen a complacent lack of desperate addressing here over the last few years or is there something I have missed and we have some real guns in the making to take us back to the top in the not too distant future?

All I see is that we are in more massive trouble than many people think.

[dragit]

Yes, it's only you... I wish you'd spoken up 5 years ago.

[Winmar7Fan]

Yes, it's only you... I wish you'd spoken up 5 years ago.

So every time we went to market in the past few years you've been happy each time with what we picked up and are totally shocked and never saw this coming?

[Junction Oval]

It was interesting in today's Age, that Watters was quoted as saying that Saints supporters "are not idiots, they know where things are at." I thought that he may have just started reading Saintsational! Poor recruiting and atrocious foot skills have been highlighted on the site for several years now.

Geelong are a club that has been in an almost identical situation as the Saints over the past 6 seasons or so - early draft picks, building to a regular finals team and then managing the inevitable loss of experienced players. The difference is, they have "managed" the change far better than us - lots of lessons to be learned from the Geelong approach.

[older saint]

Between 2008 and 2011t tis club was chasing a premiership and as such recruited based on what was available at the higher picks and ability to top up to try to get the ellusive flag. IF we kick straight in 2009 and the bounce of the ball 2010 we could be sitting here going oh well we will be down for a while and rebuild but we have 2 flags,=. Bottom line poker anaolgy we went all in both years with full house and got beat with a flush .

[dragit]

Yes, it's only you... I wish you'd spoken up 5 years ago.

So every time we went to market in the past few years you've been happy each time with what we picked up and are totally shocked and never saw this coming?

I'm suggesting that you haven't been on here reading very often if you think that you were the only one who has seen a serious problem brewing… I would say that most people on here are fully aware of the massive recruiting blunders of the past… Ball, Lovett, Polo, Peake, Lynch, Heyne, Smith, Smith, Cripps, Walsh, Goddard… pretty sure they have been covered.

I am reasonably happy with the past 18 months of recruiting, we look to be rectifying a huge hole in our list 20-25 Yo's… I am comfortable with downgrading picks to get more talent into the list in a hurry.

No FB last year was disappointing, and I can't see the point in adding a 5th small forward… but generally I can the logic behind what we are doing at the draft/trade table.

The Lyon years stunk for recruiting obviously, but I don't blame the club for throwing everything they could at trying win a flag while we had so many A-graders at their peak, it didn't work out, but maybe in the long run… we drop down a bit further than we would have… collect a couple of genuine gun mids, and have another go.

forgot about Gamble, Pattison, C Gardiner… also covered.

[plugger66]

Between 2008 and 2011t tis club was chasing a premiership and as such recruited based on what was available at the higher picks and ability to top up to try to get the ellusive flag. IF we kick straight in 2009 and the bounce of the ball 2010 we could be sitting here going oh well we will be down for a while and rebuild but we have 2 flags,=. Bottom line poker anaolgy we went all in both years with full house and got beat with a flush .

4 of a kind. I wish it was a flush.

[whiskers3614]

Between 2008 and 2011t tis club was chasing a premiership and as such recruited based on what was available at the higher picks and ability to top up to try to get the ellusive flag. IF we kick straight in 2009 and the bounce of the ball 2010 we could be sitting here going oh well we will be down for a while and rebuild but we have 2 flags,=. Bottom line poker anaolgy we went all in both years with full house and got beat with a flush .

must have been a crooked game if a flush beat a full house.

[saintsRrising]

Is it only me that has seen a complacent lack of desperate addressing here over the last few years or is there something I have missed and we have some real guns in the making to take us back to the top in the not too distant future?

.

Yes it is only you.

Seriously If you have read on this forum any of about 1001 threads you would have picked up on that the consensus has been that our drafting of kids has improved the last couple of seasons, but for at least the several prior to that, if not 5 before that, it was a shambles.

Pelchen since hired has been given a clear mandate to rebuild the list. He seems to have also been given the mandate to do this over about 4 seasons as he has been in no rush to recruit quality mids, or a FB.

He has made some brace calls in Lee and Hickey, and it remains to be seen if they were good or bad calls. However talls take loner to mature than mids and so one can see the logic in him addressing that first. Though I tend to favour building the rest of your team and then poaching a mature ruck ready to play when you are making your flag tilt (ie Ottens, Jolly, Mummford...)...as I think it is just so hard to predict where young rucks will end up.

[Con Gorozidis]

Yes, it's only you... I wish you'd spoken up 5 years ago.

I think dragit is having a giggle.
I think it is commonly accepted that our trading drafting and development was woefully under resourced and very poor from 2006 to 2011. And the next two years we are about to pay the piper and reap a poor harvest from what we have sown.
I have no inside info but I believe it was the club realised this two years ago which caused the friction with Lyon and the appointment of pelchen and someone like Watters who is good with kids.

On the upside. If were smart we can turn it around quickly. Being smart means realising we we are at and being prepared to go backwards to go fwds.

[Moods]

Yes, it's only you... I wish you'd spoken up 5 years ago.

So every time we went to market in the past few years you've been happy each time with what we picked up and are totally shocked and never saw this coming?

I'm suggesting that you haven't been on here reading very often if you think that you were the only one who has seen a serious problem brewing… I would say that most people on here are fully aware of the massive recruiting blunders of the past… Ball, Lovett, Polo, Peake, Lynch, Heyne, Smith, Smith, Cripps, Walsh, Goddard… pretty sure they have been covered.

I am reasonably happy with the past 18 months of recruiting, we look to be rectifying a huge hole in our list 20-25 Yo's… I am comfortable with downgrading picks to get more talent into the list in a hurry.

No FB last year was disappointing, and I can't see the point in adding a 5th small forward… but generally I can the logic behind what we are doing at the draft/trade table.

The Lyon years stunk for recruiting obviously, but I don't blame the club for throwing everything they could at trying win a flag while we had so many A-graders at their peak, it didn't work out, but maybe in the long run… we drop down a bit further than we would have… collect a couple of genuine gun mids, and have another go.

forgot about Gamble, Pattison, C Gardiner… also covered.

Good post. Agree

[Winmar7Fan]

Is it only me that has seen a complacent lack of desperate addressing here over the last few years or is there something I have missed and we have some real guns in the making to take us back to the top in the not too distant future?

.

Yes it is only you.

Seriously If you have read on this forum any of about 1001 threads you would have picked up on that the consensus has been that our drafting of kids has improved the last couple of seasons, but for at least the several prior to that, if not 5 before that, it was a shambles.

Pelchen since hired has been given a clear mandate to rebuild the list. He seems to have also been given the mandate to do this over about 4 seasons as he has been in no rush to recruit quality mids, or a FB.

He has made some brace calls in Lee and Hickey, and it remains to be seen if they were good or bad calls. However talls take loner to mature than mids and so one can see the logic in him addressing that first. Though I tend to favour building the rest of your team and then poaching a mature ruck ready to play when you are making your flag tilt (ie Ottens, Jolly, Mummford...)...as I think it is just so hard to predict where young rucks will end up.

Yes but they all get hammered for being negative by people either in denial or wearing rose coloured glasses

Ok everyone has a different way of seeing things I understand that so tell me who you believe in the last couple of seasons have we picked up that is showing signs of being the next Riewoldt, Hayes, Montagna, Dal or Goddard?

The only Kid IMO I see as truely being a solid long term player that has it is Jack Steven and that showed fairly qiuckly but I'm struggling to see too much else but I must say I don't see much behind the scenes since I moved up here but out on the ground I don't see any signs of possible future superstars.

[dragit]

How could we have possibly expect to replace 2 x # 1 draft picks in the last couple of years?

Seb Ross is still only 19 years old, we can't say either way yet. Saad, Milera, Newnes, Markworth look promising... Hickey, Lee, Wright, White... Been at the club 5 minutes...

We probably haven't picked up any superstars, but we haven't had a top 5 pick in 10 years either.

I think we are trying to build a more even team of very good players with the picks we have had, rather than 5 superstars & 5 Robert Eddy's. Regardless, Patton, Omeara, Whitfield... They haven't been around at our pick & they're the type if guys that could potentially get to Roo, Goddard & NDS level...

[spert]

It is also very important to play the young guys as much as possible regardless of the outcome rather than try and get the last drop of blood from Hayes, NDS, Montagna and Milne ..and Roo even. These guys will not take us to the next premiership- they had three goes at it, and only Lenny had the next gear, but he has done his bit for the Saints. Generally one or two of the young brigade will probably take the next step, but if they don't get a game, then you are putting off the future by trying to hang on to the past.

[bergholt]

Bottom line poker anaolgy we went all in both years with full house and got beat with a flush .

Good call, I agree.

[GeorgeYoung27]

The 2nd part of the rebuild is getting the salary cap into shape to lure future stars. Watters mentioned yesterday that we will be in shape next year to have a serious crack at this. That is thanks to the hard line on BJ.

[Winmar7Fan]

Yes I get trying to make a crystal ball judgement on kids. You need to develope from youth but it still a big lotto draw.

But why do we seem to only pick up rejects that other clubs delist because they have proven they are not up to the level and do nothing.

What about all these gun players that either want a change of club or want to go home etc like Goddard, Quinten Lynch, Tippet, Mitch Clarke etc? All these other clubs eagerly go after them why don't we ever throw our hat in the ring and go hard for them?

We never seem interested in them but only lose ours to other clubs.

[oh when the]

Where the club is now will show how professional or not
this club is, and how well we are managed.
time will tell.

[SAAD]

We haven't been able to lure any superstars because of our salary cap and how tight it is, we should be able to next year you would think with Goddard gone and maybe a few more into retirement. It's been said before and I know he has taken some sort of cut now but Riewoldt on a million was too much. Again the Geelong model reigns supreme.

[SydneySainter]

From 04, recruiting has been nothing short of woeful.

Lyon's era went an extra step and took the calculated risk of "flag or broke". Unfortunately, the later happened.

[Munga]

Top 33 picks since 2001 no longer at the club:

Pick
1 Brendon Goddard
2 Luke Ball
5 Xavier Clarke
8 Raphael Clarke
13 Tom Lynch
17 Andrew McQualter
21 Matthew Maguire
22 Matthew Ferguson
24 Jamie Cripps
27 Brad Howard
32 Nicholas Winmar
33 Cain Ackland

An average of one top 30 odd pick per draft not working hard at the Saints.

A few wins later in the drafts:

37 Leigh Montagna
55 Sam Fisher
33 Sam Gilbert
63 James Gwilt
58 Jarryn Geary

[plugger66]

Add Jack Steven at 42 but we did do pretty good with Ben and Armo as lower picks.

[saintly]

Add Jack Steven at 42 but we did do pretty good with Ben and Armo as lower picks.

well in the 2006 draft we could have got jack Reiwoldt instead of Armitage. We had Kosi and Roo and probably we not thinking too far in the future either.

[dragit]

Top 33 picks since 2001 no longer at the club:

Pick
1 Brendon Goddard
2 Luke Ball
5 Xavier Clarke
8 Raphael Clarke
13 Tom Lynch
17 Andrew McQualter
21 Matthew Maguire
22 Matthew Ferguson
24 Jamie Cripps
27 Brad Howard
32 Nicholas Winmar
33 Cain Ackland

An average of one top 30 odd pick per draft not working hard at the Saints.

A few wins later in the drafts:

37 Leigh Montagna
55 Sam Fisher
33 Sam Gilbert
63 James Gwilt
58 Jarryn Geary

I reckon every club would have about that many players drafted in the top 33 (not sure why we are talking top33) no longer at the club from the past 12 years

[noob]

Reason why we couldn't pick up any decent players was because we paid Riewoldt 1 million dollars. It's hard to fit someone in when you've got star players on big wages also kosi on like 500k.