Is Tanking OK in the NAB cup?

[Toy Saint]

So Melbourne got ripped for tanking in the normal season.

And if the AFL were consistent, they should have nailed a few others, like Carlton that year when they were playing for the Bryce Gibbs cup.

So the question is. Is tanking OK in the NAB cup?

What is the specific rule that makes it so illegal in the normal season, and where is the rule that says tanking is OK in the NAB cup?

I'm prepared to bet there is no rule, and like most things AFL, Prince Andrew and his media chums just make up the rules as they go....

[Old Mate]

Depends how you define tanking. are clubs not doing their best to win by not selecting the best squad avail? Yes. are clubs trying to manipulate results and lose for a reward (draft picks)? No. The way i see it its similar to when we rested a bunch of players verse hawthorn in 09. Tanking wasnt an issue at all cos we still played to win.

[bigcarl]

It's a massive grey area, not helped by the AFL's confusing findings over Melbourne.

[vacuous space]

This shouldn't be confusing. Preseason games are exhibition games. They exist so teams can prepare for real games.

Anybody who deliberately loses real games in any sport faces permanent bans. Melbourne got off light because nothing could be proven.

[Saint_in_SA]

Andrew was right after all. There is no such thing as tanking, yet poor Dean and Chris are suspended from duty and Melbourne are half a mil poorer. I PMSL. Who knows anymore. There are too many cases to mention of teams 'giving up' - remember Choco declaring Port's season over at half way when Port had the stumbles a few years back.......

[bigcarl]

I realise in practice some clubs don't take it seriously, but there's prizemoney involved and, significantly, you can bet on it.

Once there is betting involved, you'd hope the team you back is trying to win.

[vacuous space]

If you're going to bet on exhibition games you might as well tattoo 'problem gambler' across your forehead.

[bigcarl]

If you're going to bet on exhibition games you might as well tattoo 'problem gambler' across your forehead.

I don't bet on football, but some do and it opens up a whole can of worms for the AFL.

It's not as if they call them exhibition games. There is the pretence that these games are for real.

They call it a cup after all and even give prize money.

[bergholt]

If you're going to bet on exhibition games you might as well tattoo 'problem gambler' across your forehead.

How about if you bet on a team which gets a better draft pick if it loses?

What's lost in this whole tanking debate is that the incentives for Melbourne to lose were perfectly evident to everyone. Anyone who bet on them to win was a moron. I don't see why it's an issue.

[vacuous space]

What's lost in this whole tanking debate is that the incentives for Melbourne to lose were perfectly evident to everyone.

I don't think that's been lost. Plenty of people are giving Melbourne a pass on account of the supposed prize being too great. I really have to question that though. I barrack for a club that got Justin Koschitzke and Xavier Clarke out of priority picks. We narrowly missed out on getting a free Daniel Wells. PPs are wildly overrated on account of two who worked out. The many that didn't seem to regularly get lost.

For all of Melbourne's trouble, they netted themselves a Jack Trengove, who hasn't turned out to be a club saviour. He might become one, but Dustin Martin's better, so missing out on the pick might not have been horrible. They could have had Nat Fyfe with their second round pick regardless. The draft is far too inexact to warrant on-field manipulation. In the end, their prize was a decent mid and a 17-year old they can't use. I'd have rathered the win.

[Con Gorozidis]

in my opinion tanking definitely ok in nab cup.

what is important to me is that the game comes first and the dog shouldnt be wagged by the betting tail.

nab cup has always been praccy games to trial youngsters etc.

you cant say oh we have betting so the game should change because of betting.
if betting is a problem will curb or regulate the betting. dont change the game to suit the betting.
that really turning things horribly upside down.

same with tanking - tanking to me in the regular season is a problem because it undermines the draft system.

2 separate issues. if teams are throwing games because there is fixing going on well that is out and out criminal.

so to me tanking for draft picks undermines the game and match fixing is totally criminal behaviour.

[plugger66]

If you're going to bet on exhibition games you might as well tattoo 'problem gambler' across your forehead.

I don't bet on football, but some do and it opens up a whole can of worms for the AFL.

It's not as if they call them exhibition games. There is the pretence that these games are for real.

They call it a cup after all and even give prize money.

No VS is correct. We know it is practice games. There is no pretence they are real at all. Listen to the coaches, the players and the media. They arent real games. They are designed to have you at your peak for real games. And prize money means nothing either. Horses that can only win past 2000m may have their first run from a spell in 1000m race. They cant win and the punters know it and there is prize money.

[bigcarl]

We know it is practice games. There is no pretence they are real at all. Listen to the coaches, the players and the media. They arent real games.

For a start, they are not all practice games. The final involves prize money and even some prestige and as you get closer to it, teams tend to take it seriously.

So it is another murky grey area in a competition filled with them.

They should call it the NAB Exhibition Series ... just to clarify it and protect themselves ethically. But ethics has not been a strong suit for the current administration and this is small fry compared to some of the other integrity issues it faces.

[desertsaint]

Well if the afl is ever in need of quick cash - there's at least $5 million in fines just waiting.

[plugger66]

We know it is practice games. There is no pretence they are real at all. Listen to the coaches, the players and the media. They arent real games.

For a start, they are not all practice games. The final involves prize money and even some prestige and as you get closer to it, teams tend to take it seriously.

So it is another murky grey area in a competition filled with them.

They should call it the NAB Exhibition Series ... just to clarify it and protect themselves ethically. But ethics has not been a strong suit for the current administration and this is small fry compared to some of the other integrity issues it faces.

Funny how you left out the part about horse racing when discussing prize money. And changing the name would mean what exactly? If people dont know what is now they should be locked up.

[bigcarl]

It's a grey area and something else for your man Andy to address while he can.

[magnifisaint]

According to the AFL it's ok in any game

[bigcarl]

It has never happened, yet 500k fines are handed out willy nilly.

[plugger66]

It's a grey area and something else for your man Andy to address while he can.

Thats the way to finish a discussion when you have nothing else relevant to say. Get votes on here but wont win the discussion.

[bigcarl]

What the AFL should have done on tanking is declared a general amnesty on things that have happened in the past.

If it has happened it is our fault, our rules encouraged it, etc.

And then find a way to stop it from ever happening, maybe a draft lottery system for the bottom-finishing clubs, and harsh set penalties for infringing.

But instead of coming clean on it and taking responsibility, there is this lengthy, costly inquiry with the amazing finding that ... although there is no evidence of tanking ... the penalty is $500,000.

What is going on down there, Plugger? It's Looney Tunes.

[plugger66]

What the AFL should have done on tanking is declared a general amnesty on things that have happened in the past.

If it has happened it is our fault, our rules encouraged it, etc.

And then find a way to stop it from ever happening, maybe a draft lottery system for the bottom-finishing clubs, and harsh set penalties for infringing.

But instead of coming clean on it and taking responsibility, there is this lengthy, costly inquiry with the amazing finding that ... although there is no evidence of wrongdoing ... the penalty is $500,000.

What is happening down there, Plugger? It's Looney Tunes.

No idea but none of that has anything to do with the NAB cup and whether sides playing young kids is tanking or not which IMO isnt tanking is a practice series. Bet at your own risk or stupidity on NAB cups.

And by getting rid of the priority pick you will stop the real tanking however clubs will play young guys once they cannot make the finals whatever system you have.

[bigcarl]

tanking or not which IMO isnt tanking is a practice series.

I think you are trying to say that the NAB Cup is a practice series. The problem is that is not entirely true, certainly when it comes close to the finals.

Sometimes clubs actually want to win it.

If it is an exhibition series, the AFL should make that clear. Instead, it offers prize money and betting on it is allowed.

And by getting rid of the priority pick you will stop the real tanking however clubs will play young guys once they cannot make the finals whatever system you have.

I know. That should be regarded as development rather than tanking. Clubs have been doing it since Christ was a boy and it is not going to change.

[plugger66]

tanking or not which IMO isnt tanking is a practice series.

I think you are trying to say that the NAB Cup is a practice series. The problem is that is not entirely true, certainly when it comes close to the finals.

Sometimes clubs actually want to win it.

If it is an exhibition series, the AFL should make that clear. Instead, it offers prize money and betting on it is allowed.

And by getting rid of the priority pick you will stop the real tanking however clubs will play young guys once they cannot make the finals whatever system you have.

I know. That should be regarded as development rather than tanking. Clubs have been doing it since Christ was a boy and it is not going to change.

So you are allowed to play kids when you cant make the finals but you cant in the NAB cup or if that is how we are going to use it then we should call it an exhibition series? Thats a bit confusing. What about the horse who cant win because its the wrong distance but there is prize money involved there. Some sides try and some dont. bet at your own stupidity.

My guess is whatever you called the NAB cup the same people would bet who are betting now. Fools with no brains or to much money.

[bigcarl]

Thats a bit confusing.

Certainly is. It's a mess and needs cleaning up. Too many grey areas.

[plugger66]

Thats a bit confusing.

Certainly is. It's a mess and needs cleaning up. Too many grey areas.

Another interesting way of discussing things. I take you have nothing useful to add?