Saintsational Fan Forum - A passionate community of St Kilda Football Club fans discussing news, history, players, trade rumours, results, AFL stats and more.
BigMart wrote:Hardly ever I said.... Btw, barassi left Melbourne...
Yes. You know what I mean
However Melbourne were a very big club when he left.
Still don't reckon losing Ball would be considered losing a 'great' player. Certainly shouldn't be considered a great player the last 4 years at the saints (from 06 onwards) PLenty will argue against me, but I reckon they have rose coloured glasses on.
BJ won 2 x AA with us and I reckon he qualifies, despite his last 2 years being serviceable only. We are in an era of free trade and the landscape has changed. Tippett left the Crows, Ablett the Cats, BJ the saints. It will happen more and more in the coming years I reckon. No slight on the clubs they left, just a fact of life.
Ball was also an All Australian and Best and Fairest. great player, still is, NO question
Only one pig headed coach and a few naive/jilted supporter think otherwise!!
In Goddards mediocre years he manged to be top 5 in the b&f both years.... Maybe it's only supporters who believe his mediocre output. I think his GF heroics got in everyone's head?
He averaged 25 a game with possibly The best decision making/disposal in the league
BigMart wrote:Ball was also an All Australian and Best and Fairest. great player, still is, NO question
Only one pig headed coach and a few naive/jilted supporter think otherwise!!
In Goddards mediocre years he manged to be top 5 in the b&f both years.... Maybe it's only supporters who believe his mediocre output. I think his GF heroics got in everyone's head?
He averaged 25 a game with possibly The best decision making/disposal in the league
His decision making is damn good and seeing him forward of center made me wonder as to why we didn't do that with him.
That being stated, we didn't do too bad out of it.
We need to regenerate and it wasnt the worst decision for all party's involved. Sad but true.
BigMart wrote:Ball was also an All Australian and Best and Fairest. great player, still is, NO question
Only one pig headed coach and a few naive/jilted supporter think otherwise!!
In Goddards mediocre years he manged to be top 5 in the b&f both years.... Maybe it's only supporters who believe his mediocre output. I think his GF heroics got in everyone's head?
He averaged 25 a game with possibly The best decision making/disposal in the league
And yet he wanted to be paid as if he were the best player at the club.
Remind me again, how many times did he win the B&F?
None, you say? Then he must have played either as an elite forward or midfielder... or maybe a key back?
Question: Is an elite receiving half back flanker/utility really worth being paid the most at our club?
Hird... The unflushable one is now... just a turd...
I would have traded another gun, slightly older to ease cap problems... And went harder for BJ. But as you point out, he still may have split?! But our offer of 500k over 4 was never going to get it done... Not for a minute.
BigMart wrote:I know, that was the cost required to lure him.
Would not have matched that amount!!!
I would have traded another gun, slightly older to ease cap problems... And went harder for BJ. But as you point out, he still may have split?! But our offer of 500k over 4 was never going to get it done... Not for a minute.
How many older guns do we have that other teams would want?
BigMart wrote:I know, that was the cost required to lure him.
Would not have matched that amount!!!
I would have traded another gun, slightly older to ease cap problems... And went harder for BJ. But as you point out, he still may have split?! But our offer of 500k over 4 was never going to get it done... Not for a minute.
That's true, you get the feeling that the club wasn't that fussed about keeping him. I reckon they might have sat down and forecast a pretty dire upcoming 3-4 years, and clinically chose the compo pick over BJ… better PR than trading away anyone… player x, walks for money, we get a very good pick.
BigMart wrote:I know, that was the cost required to lure him.
Would not have matched that amount!!!
I would have traded another gun, slightly older to ease cap problems... And went harder for BJ. But as you point out, he still may have split?! But our offer of 500k over 4 was never going to get it done... Not for a minute.
Ok, now we're getting somewhere interesting... Who would you have shipped instead?
Lenny, Roo, Milne - unthinkable
So presumably one of Chips, Dal or Joey?
Myself, I prefer the way we did it which was to offer similar deals to them all as they all have similar value and the least loyal is by logical extension the one that blinks. Happens it was BJ. Means that the team values are also upheld.
Hird... The unflushable one is now... just a turd...
BigMart wrote:I know, that was the cost required to lure him.
Would not have matched that amount!!!
I would have traded another gun, slightly older to ease cap problems... And went harder for BJ. But as you point out, he still may have split?! But our offer of 500k over 4 was never going to get it done... Not for a minute.
That's true, you get the feeling that the club wasn't that fussed about keeping him. I reckon they might have sat down and forecast a pretty dire upcoming 3-4 years, and clinically chose the compo pick over BJ… better PR than trading away anyone… player x, walks for money, we get a very good pick.
Agreed. I also think that they reckoned that we already have potential cover for BJ in Sippos and an improved Gwilt. Obviously not as good as BJ, but compared to the cover we have for say Dal, Joey or Chips... Nada...
Hird... The unflushable one is now... just a turd...
BigMart wrote:I would have traded another gun, slightly older to ease cap problems...
Ok, now we're getting somewhere interesting... Who would you have shipped instead?
Great question, I'm not sure you'll get an answer though.
Joey and BJ and tried to use both picks/cap space and go nuts in free agency/trading.
Why?
Because we need to regenerate as swiftly as possible and we have the currency to do this.
If we could steal another GC or GWS player, use our cap space to advantage and use our first round pick for another player, regeneration is well on the way.
Lenny, Roo, kosi and even chips at 30+ not even consideration
Dal, Joey 29 with about 3-5 years left on the wane toward the latter end of that, but still on top of their games have currency. Are everyday mids (albeit a grade) but you can cover 1.
Due to the ease either Joe or Dal are stopped I would have regrettably offloaded one of...
Really BJ at 27 was obviously next in line for the top job.... Roo said as much... Now there is actually no one worthy or ready or at the right age to be skipper, not now or in the near future...
David Armitage
Jack Steven
Seb Ross
Tom Ledger
Tom Curran
Jack Newnes
One would get increased game time
In the past though, and if BJ wanted out, the idea is then to get good compo... Pick 12 not great, but better than what we got for Ball
Interesting thoughts Mart.
If I had to rank them then Dal > Goddard > Montagna.
All three can be tagged. Not sure any one is more or less vulnerable than any of the others.
And both Joey and Dal get more of their own ball than Goddard.
Whilst I agree that Goddard was the obvious next captain, I tend to think that as it turned out the fact that he jumped ship actually suggests that perhaps he wouldn't have been such a good choice after all and that we actually dodged a bullet there. Nonetheless I can't see Rooey going on (as captain) beyond 2014 at the absolute outside and at present it is unclear who would be in line... perhaps big Ben, Jimmy Gwilt, Armo and Gears.
In terms of back-ups Sippos as a replacement for Goddard is way ahead of Ross/Ledger/Curran/Newnes would be for either of Dal/Joey.
Hird... The unflushable one is now... just a turd...
A 191/92 utility that can control a game in any section of the ground.
He is a rare beast IMO
Come up with a better all round package in the AFL
Possibly Goodes, Hodge, Pavlich.... Not sure of many others who can be devastating out of the back half, gather lots of it in the middle and take contested marks fwd of the ball?
A 191/92 utility that can control a game in any section of the ground.
He is a rare beast IMO
Come up with a better all round package in the AFL
Possibly Goodes, Hodge, Pavlich.... Not sure of many others who can be devastating out of the back half, gather lots of it in the middle and take contested marks fwd of the ball?
How often did he "control any game" in the forward half in his time at St Kilda?
_______________________________________________________________________
"Don't argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience."
Do you think Goddard is a top 30 player in the AFL?
If i was creating a team i would have no hesitation selecting him in my 22. Stats, b & f finishes, premiership medals and so on are not the be all and end all. bj is a class unit and severely underrated due to expextations after the 2010 gf. top 30 no probs imo.
Id have bj no. 1 at the saints last year, most valuable that is. Roo above him in 09/10ish. Bj has more strings to his bow than most, actually hes prob the most versitile player in the comp. he can play just about anywhere and all his disposals count. just doesnt have the ball winning ability as hayes, especially.
