Go away CJ

[The Redeemer]

Different year and same old crap.

He does not kick, cannot kick and is more than likely scared of kicking.

His random handball deep in our defensive 50 that resulted in a goal was shocking however it isn't really shocking when one considers how bloody average he is.

Discuss

[plugger66]

Shot put.

[SainterK]

Go away Redeemer...

See I can do it to.

[paddy]

i have always been a fan of CJ, but he struggles so much with confidence in his kicking.

Thinking TC is gonna be the same story...

great intensity, just poor skills

[battye]

Do we have a better tagger?

[SainterK]

Do we have a better tagger?

Not sure if Watters will go with a traditional tagger...

He went with Joey late last year, not as a traditional tagger as he still won heaps of ball and used it well, but still in a more accountable role than we're used to.

Perhaps when Lenny is back, Joey may get the oppositions best mid each week again?

[The Redeemer]

Do we have a better tagger?

Not sure if Watters will go with a traditional tagger...

He went with Joey late last year, not as a traditional tagger as he still won heaps of ball and used it well, but still in a more accountable role than we're used to.

Perhaps when Lenny is back, Joey may get the oppositions best mid each week again?

He needs to be able to do something other than tag...like kick the ball

[Old Mate]

More suited to the Ross Lyon game plan where skills are not as important.

[White Winmar]

The modern style game can't accommodate less than competent kicking, if you are going to contend. Unfortunately we have several suspect kicks, who also happen to have important roles. Somehow, we are going to have to find a way to fit them in, or bite the bullet and invest in the future. I'm looking at you, Gilbo, CJ and Gears. You can hide one in your team, but not three. I admire all 3 for their commitment and attack on the ball, but whenever they get the ball in their hands and shape to kick it, everyone holds their breath.

[whiskers3614]

The modern style game can't accommodate less than competent kicking, if you are going to contend. Unfortunately we have several suspect kicks, who also happen to have important roles. Somehow, we are going to have to find a way to fit them in, or bite the bullet and invest in the future. I'm looking at you, Gilbo, CJ and Gears. You can hide one in your team, but not three. I admire all 3 for their commitment and attack on the ball, but whenever they get the ball in their hands and shape to kick it, everyone holds their breath.

Reckon a certain star forward needs to be added to that list, at least those 3 don't demand the ball in unrealistic positions and throw tantrums when other forwards take a shot themselves and miss.

[loris]

The modern style game can't accommodate less than competent kicking, if you are going to contend. Unfortunately we have several suspect kicks, who also happen to have important roles. Somehow, we are going to have to find a way to fit them in, or bite the bullet and invest in the future. I'm looking at you, Gilbo, CJ and Gears. You can hide one in your team, but not three. I admire all 3 for their commitment and attack on the ball, but whenever they get the ball in their hands and shape to kick it, everyone holds their breath.

A bit like when everyone holds their breath when Rooey kicks for goal, when under pressure.

[whiskers3614]

must've read each other's minds Loris.

[loris]

must've read each other's minds Loris.

Just about to say you beat me to it................................ now what was that saying?....................... Great minds, think alike

[Stillwaiting]

Shot put.

[whiskers3614]

must've read each other's minds Loris.

Just about to say you beat me to it................................ now what was that saying?....................... Great minds, think alike

.....and fools seldom differ!
I just get annoyed that certain players deficiencies get repeated and analysed to deaqth whilst others' are treated like "sacred cows"

[loris]

must've read each other's minds Loris.

Just about to say you beat me to it................................ now what was that saying?....................... Great minds, think alike

.....and fools seldom differ!
I just get annoyed that certain players deficiencies get repeated and analysed to deaqth whilst others' are treated like "sacred cows"

+1........................ and who cares if we are fools or have great minds

[White Winmar]

I'll go with the quality test. If you could only choose one of roo, cj, gears and Gilbo, which one would you take? I know Roo misses the odd one, but let's be realistic, the good far outweighs the bad. Roo is a very good kick in general play and his overall kicking for goal stats are pretty reasonable in comparison to all the other top forwards. Again, if I was a team mate and I looked and had my choice as to who should be holding the pill, I'd go for roo over the other three, 100% of the time.

Finally, the reason those three constantly get singled out is that they have not improved that area of their game significantly, over a period of years. If we are to truly contend, we can't afford below average kicks. It's unlikely any of them will now improve significantly in that area. They have lots to offer in other areas, just not in the kicking department.

[Moods]

Haha.

Comparing Riewoldt to CJ, Geary or Gilbert. Now can we get back to serious footy discussion?

[whiskers3614]

Haha.

Comparing Riewoldt to CJ, Geary or Gilbert. Now can we get back to serious footy discussion?

Was not comparing.
Simply stating they all have deficiencies some are constantly highlighted while others are glossed over by reference to B&fs and goalkicking ratios etc.

[loris]

I'll go with the quality test. If you could only choose one of roo, cj, gears and Gilbo, which one would you take? I know Roo misses the odd one, but let's be realistic, the good far outweighs the bad. Roo is a very good kick in general play and his overall kicking for goal stats are pretty reasonable in comparison to all the other top forwards. Again, if I was a team mate and I looked and had my choice as to who should be holding the pill, I'd go for roo over the other three, 100% of the time.

Finally, the reason those three constantly get singled out is that they have not improved that area of their game significantly, over a period of years. If we are to truly contend, we can't afford below average kicks. It's unlikely any of them will now improve significantly in that area. They have lots to offer in other areas, just not in the kicking department.

I believe gears kicking had improved incremently last season.......... so I haven't given up on him continuing his improvement in that department, as he gains more confidence in his ability & position in the team. I don't think it is a tecnical issue with him. Also gears had often been coming back after leg injuries, plus the added pressure placed on him of trying to get into and remain in the team, I think impacted on his decision making and he often rushed his kicking. If he can maintain his improvement (I believe he will) I think there will be more poise in his game and that should assist with his foot disposals.

Sadly I don't see the same uptake for CJ and Gilbert.

I just wish Reiwoldt could get the yips out of his kicking for goal.

In his early days at the Saints he was the most reliable of kicks. Whether it's his knees or hammy injuries that have caused him to lose that technical skill, or it is a mental thing infront of goal who knows?
Yes I agree, his kicking in general play, as you say is good, and there are times when kicking for goal he gets some exceptionally difficult goals through, that one could expect him to miss.

I just know I wouldn't be very confident him lining up if he was 35-40 metres out from goal directly in front, Saints 5 points behind and he is kicking after the siren had sounded to win us a flag. I would be more confident with Geary having that shot.

Just hope I don't have to live through such anxiety though. I want it to be done and dusted by 3/4 time, with the Saints so far in front that we couldn't be relying on Rooey or Gears having to take such a shot for goal to win us a flag.

I was there in 1966 for B. Breen's wobbly kick getting to and through the big sticks, that was enough tension for one woman to deal with in a lifetime

[Moods]

You're right. Why would anyone refer to B&F's when talking up a player? Riewoldt has deficiencies, but I'll take them every day of the week when considering that virtually no player in the comp presents as often and works as hard as him to get the ball. Not sure Roo's deficiencies have EVER been glossed over on here or anywhere actually. His poor conversion for goal from gettable positions has been about as well documented as Richos when he played. PLenty of hand wringing from saints supporters over it, and plenty of discussion in media on it.

Roo is simply a far better footballer than the three you mentioned, which is why he is defended more by supporters and not brought into these discussions. I mean, the OP discussed whetehr we should keep CJ on siting his awful disposal. Do you think that this discussion would ever come up with Roo? And nor should it.

[BigMart]

He will be fringe

[bergholt]

In his early days at the Saints he was the most reliable of kicks. Whether it's his knees or hammy injuries that have caused him to lose that technical skill, or it is a mental thing infront of goal who knows?

I reckon it's the same thing that started to hurt Siposs's goal-kicking last year - running around too much.

In his early years, Roo was basically a stay-at-home KPF, but gradually he built a fitness base, discovered his massive willingness to work and keep working throughout the game, and realised that he could run his opponents off their feet. This worked really well for getting the ball, but it meant that he had a lot less steadiness when it came time to actually shoot for goal. (Probably some physiological reason here that I don't know the name of.)

I reckon we saw the same from Siposs last year, especially in the Gold Coast game where he had 20 touches all over the ground, but kicked 1.3. We all know he's a great kick at goal, but don't be surprised if a midfield role turns him into just a reasonable kick.

[clarky449]

Redeemer for serious? Please go away! Anyways as someone said, CJ will be fringe.

[gringo]

Thought he went ok myself.