Tom Lee

[SuperDuper]

To hard to do your salary cap if the whole side was on match payments

well not really Plugger... there is a precisely known number of games each year with a precisely known number of players... so it aint hard to add match payments to base contracts.. there are also a precisely known number of b&f winners and runners up, etc...
It ain't rocket science

[SuperDuper]

As for Lee, as a 22 year old I would rate his season as (barring injury):

massive win: 22 games where he is influential in at least some and is generally dangerous
win: 22 dependable games where he does enough to justify selection each weak
par: 16 games but shows signs and in particular shows improvement, with a couple times at least getting in the best
below par: 12 games, indicating his form is not warranting consistent selection
disasterous recruiting move!: 6 games or less, which would indicate that he is showing nothing

[CURLY]

Just asking why youd lie?

oh here we go!
what did i lie about?

That Clark Keating was kept in cottonwool for all but a few games and then finals. Absolute bulls*** that and the Brad Ottens lie someone made up.

[plugger66]

To hard to do your salary cap if the whole side was on match payments

well not really Plugger... there is a precisely known number of games each year with a precisely known number of players... so it aint hard to add match payments to base contracts.. there are also a precisely known number of b&f winners and runners up, etc...
It ain't rocket science

Tell me you are joking. If we want to be as close to 100% as possible and all players are on match payments and then Kosi gets dropped and he is on 20 k a game and is replaced by a first year player on 3 K a game then obviously you use less in the salary cap. It is even owrks the other way. 10 low paid players are injured in senior games so under the rules they still get paid match payments. They are then replaced by another 10 players so they would be at least 30k over budget as those 10 would get at least 3k macth payments a game.

That is why many are on flat contracts and also the players want that and if we dont give it to them then another club will.

[Con Gorozidis]

Just asking why youd lie?

oh here we go!
what did i lie about?

That Clark Keating was kept in cottonwool for all but a few games and then finals. Absolute bulls*** that and the Brad Ottens lie someone made up.

I said he 'played 12 games total in 02 and 03 including finals'.

Thats all and exactly what I said. Which is fact. Hardly a lie.

My point was thats all his body was capable of.I never used the term 'cotton wool' .

Hardly deemed a 'lie'. Crap accusation. Not only crap - but wrong. Nice work.

[CURLY]

Just asking why youd lie?

oh here we go!
what did i lie about?

I said he 'played 12 games total in 02 and 03 including finals'.

Thats all and exactly what I said. Which is fact. Hardly a lie.

My point was thats all his body was capable of.I never used the term 'cotton wool' .

Hardly deemed a 'lie'. Crap accusation. Not only crap - but wrong. Nice work.

It wasnt some plan to have him right for finals like you make out. The bloke was injured the same as Ottens. Next thing youll post that StKilda rested Riewoldt in 2010 to have him peaking for finals.

[Con Gorozidis]

I said he 'played 12 games total in 02 and 03 including finals'.

Thats all and exactly what I said. Which is fact. Hardly a lie.

My point was thats all his body was capable of.I never used the term 'cotton wool' .

Hardly deemed a 'lie'. Crap accusation. Not only crap - but wrong. Nice work.

It wasnt some plan to have him right for finals like you make out. The bloke was injured the same as Ottens. Next thing youll post that StKilda rested Riewoldt in 2010 to have him peaking for finals.

I never said they planned to have him right for finals - you imagined that part - then claimed I 'lied'.

all I said is he played only 12 games a year in two flag years. I also inferred they didn't play him if he was injured or not right. Pretty straight forward Id think.

In contrast - I believe we have played Kosi when he was injured or sick or not right - and that is what I believe shouldn't happen (it probably cost us games).

Once again - common sense- and im hardly caught in a 'lie'.

The mgt of Keating just proves my point - 1. Don't play an injured bloke. And 2. have back up talls.

Back on topic - I think Lee will keep Kosi out of the side.

[SuperDuper]

To hard to do your salary cap if the whole side was on match payments

well not really Plugger... there is a precisely known number of games each year with a precisely known number of players... so it aint hard to add match payments to base contracts.. there are also a precisely known number of b&f winners and runners up, etc...
It ain't rocket science

Tell me you are joking. If we want to be as close to 100% as possible and all players are on match payments and then Kosi gets dropped and he is on 20 k a game and is replaced by a first year player on 3 K a game then obviously you use less in the salary cap. It is even owrks the other way. 10 low paid players are injured in senior games so under the rules they still get paid match payments. They are then replaced by another 10 players so they would be at least 30k over budget as those 10 would get at least 3k macth payments a game.

That is why many are on flat contracts and also the players want that and if we dont give it to them then another club will.

Hang on Pluggs..
I responded to a particular quote by saying that in fact it can be done in a straight forward manner... just have higher base payments for good/experienced players and lower ones for less experienced players, then add standard match payments to whoever plays.... simple and in fact very fair... but I doubt that is how it works

As for whether players are actually on match payments... well my guess is that many in fact are on them... I really do not know across the board, but young players are DEFINITELY on match payments, so the club needs to deal with this issue....

It seems a young draftee's salary under the standard AFL contract is around minimum range but if they play all games, can be above $100,000 a year.....

[plugger66]

well not really Plugger... there is a precisely known number of games each year with a precisely known number of players... so it aint hard to add match payments to base contracts.. there are also a precisely known number of b&f winners and runners up, etc...
It ain't rocket science

Tell me you are joking. If we want to be as close to 100% as possible and all players are on match payments and then Kosi gets dropped and he is on 20 k a game and is replaced by a first year player on 3 K a game then obviously you use less in the salary cap. It is even owrks the other way. 10 low paid players are injured in senior games so under the rules they still get paid match payments. They are then replaced by another 10 players so they would be at least 30k over budget as those 10 would get at least 3k macth payments a game.

That is why many are on flat contracts and also the players want that and if we dont give it to them then another club will.

Hang on Pluggs..
I responded to a particular quote by saying that in fact it can be done in a straight forward manner... just have higher base payments for good/experienced players and lower ones for less experienced players, then add standard match payments to whoever plays.... simple and in fact very fair... but I doubt that is how it works

As for whether players are actually on match payments... well my guess is that many in fact are on them... I really do not know across the board, but young players are DEFINITELY on match payments, so the club needs to deal with this issue....

It seems a young draftee's salary under the standard AFL contract is around minimum range but if they play all games, can be above $100,000 a year.....[/quote]


And I responded and told you why it isnt straight forward. And I also never said everyone was on a flat rate. Matter of fact I think I said about 20 would be a flat rate which leaves about 25 who get a base and then match payments. And yeas first and second year players are on a set contract but can be given a third year on a base or flat rate.

[Dave McNamara]

Considering what we gave up for him, he better be good.

This goes for Hickey as well.

I am not for one stating that they both have to come in and dominate from game one however in 10+ years we need to look back and judge them as close to A grade talents and players as possible

Fair call there 'Deemsy.

Obviously there are no guarantees (with any player), but I personaly am very confident that both Toms will do us proud over their careers. I'm also confident that we'll start seeing this sooner rather than later.

I'm really looking forward to making my first trip to our new headquarters. However, I live in Collingwood, so do people suggest I book overnight accmmodation somewhere locally, or just drive through the night to do the whole trip in the one day???

I'm keen to see how (amongst others) both those Toms run around in the intra-club, and also that new bloke Beau. Also keen to see how Roo moves with his re-born knee... if he plays. And of course Milney. I hope that he looks past-it again, as his pre-season form seems to be inversely proportional to his proper season form.

And of course I always look forward to yelling at Grammy to stop spectating, and calling out to the Irishman to tell him when and where to lead..., and to simply visualise the ball as being round...

[gringo]

My guess is that Lee will probably get around 15 games in his first year just because he will need to get match fit before playing a full season. They will have got him to play not as back up so I would expect that kind of return to be the expected amount. I can see him getting an average of a couple of goals a week as a third tall but he will be able to set up play and chase a bit better than the old boys. I can see him used up a wing a little too as he could do that Siposs forward role if they move Aaron back. He doesn't look as tall as he is as we have established but has a bit of a multi faceted game. I can't wait to see him play as he seemed to have some talent in the Foxtel cup games.

[CURLY]

My guess is that Lee will probably get around 15 games in his first year just because he will need to get match fit before playing a full season. They will have got him to play not as back up so I would expect that kind of return to be the expected amount. I can see him getting an average of a couple of goals a week as a third tall but he will be able to set up play and chase a bit better than the old boys. I can see him used up a wing a little too as he could do that Siposs forward role if they move Aaron back. He doesn't look as tall as he is as we have established but has a bit of a multi faceted game. I can't wait to see him play as he seemed to have some talent in the Foxtel cup games.

Why wouldnt he be match fit? Lee is as ready made a recruit as youll hope to get. If he plays well he should play every game.

[gringo]

My guess is that Lee will probably get around 15 games in his first year just because he will need to get match fit before playing a full season. They will have got him to play not as back up so I would expect that kind of return to be the expected amount. I can see him getting an average of a couple of goals a week as a third tall but he will be able to set up play and chase a bit better than the old boys. I can see him used up a wing a little too as he could do that Siposs forward role if they move Aaron back. He doesn't look as tall as he is as we have established but has a bit of a multi faceted game. I can't wait to see him play as he seemed to have some talent in the Foxtel cup games.

Why wouldnt he be match fit? Lee is as ready made a recruit as youll hope to get. If he plays well he should play every game.

WAFL is still an amateur comp. he will probably take 12 months to get close to the fitness of the existing players. It is possible he is up to it but it's a long season if you aren't already established.

[bergholt]

Why wouldnt he be match fit? Lee is as ready made a recruit as youll hope to get.

He's 22 and never played an AFL game. When we recruited Charlie Gardiner he was 25 and had played 51 games, so he was even more readymade. He only played 12 games in his one season with us.

[Royston]

Why wouldnt he be match fit? Lee is as ready made a recruit as youll hope to get.

He's 22 and never played an AFL game. When we recruited Charlie Gardiner he was 25 and had played 51 games, so he was even more readymade. He only played 12 games in his one season with us.

Yeah that had nothing to with fitness - CG was shyte house.....hopefully Lee is way better !!

[Con Gorozidis]

CG was one of those neither here nor there players.
way too small to play KP and too ordinary to play a flank.

Lee looks like a genuine Full Forward and has way more physical attributes on his side.

[tweedaletomanning]

Is going to have to improve 100% if he wants to get a game for Sandy even.

Very disappointing, hopefully he was hit by nerves, or has some 24 hour virus.

But from today's effort, he has a ways to go.

[gringo]

Is going to have to improve 100% if he wants to get a game for Sandy even.

Very disappointing, hopefully he was hit by nerves, or has some 24 hour virus.

But from today's effort, he has a ways to go.

I'm not worried yet as he was a beauty at WAFL level. I thought he'd play a fair bit of footy and Hickey would be on the sidelins a good portion of the year but looks like i was back to front.

I did suggest that Saad would be ready to go last year and that Milera would need a year at Sandy and milera was playing early seniors and saad didn't look like getting a game at that point. If we have as good a luck with Hickey and lee i will be pretty happy. i give him at least the NAB games before i worry about what we gave up for Lee.

[falka]

For those who attended today, what seemed to be the major issues?

1) Where did he play (FF assuming)
2) Did he not lead and present?
3) Easily out bodied?
4) OTHER?

[dragit]

No good in his first intra-club hitout, spade him.

[gringo]

No good in his first intra-club hitout, spade him.

has anyone noticed he has a certain skinny frame and red hair? Whipping boy anyone? They should have a first 100 to call the club can line up to punch him in the bi cep next to the autograph line.

[Seaford_Saint]

Thinking about his game today, he just looked lost. He didn't seem to be able to move into any dangerous positions. He certainly didn't demand the ball being kicked to him. He's a mid sizer as well. Obviously, its way too early to make any sort of judgement call - but on today's performance I didn't get a hint of any sort of upside at all.

Hmmmmm

[bergholt]

Thinking about his game today, he just looked lost. He didn't seem to be able to move into any dangerous positions. He certainly didn't demand the ball being kicked to him. He's a mid sizer as well. Obviously, its way too early to make any sort of judgement call - but on today's performance I didn't get a hint of any sort of upside at all.

I'm going to keep comparing him to Charlie Gardiner and Lucas Cook until he does something good. That way either I'll be right or we'll find a player - either way I win!

[8856brother]

Thinking about his game today, he just looked lost. He didn't seem to be able to move into any dangerous positions. He certainly didn't demand the ball being kicked to him. He's a mid sizer as well. Obviously, its way too early to make any sort of judgement call - but on today's performance I didn't get a hint of any sort of upside at all.

I'm going to keep comparing him to Charlie Gardiner and Lucas Cook until he does something good. That way either I'll be right or we'll find a player - either way I win!

I use that theory every year when I say we can't win the flag this year.

[tweedaletomanning]

Thinking about his game today, he just looked lost. He didn't seem to be able to move into any dangerous positions. He certainly didn't demand the ball being kicked to him. He's a mid sizer as well. Obviously, its way too early to make any sort of judgement call - but on today's performance I didn't get a hint of any sort of upside at all.

Hmmmmm

If he was a raw 18 year old, then of course will need time and can learn,

BUT,

He should be ready to play, isn't he 21/22.

Like I said, hopefully there was a good reason for his lack of performance today.

Just a bit disappointed as I have been raving about this guy since he was drafted.

Oh well, we'll see what happens over the coming weeks.