Tom Lee

[dragit]

Riewoldt, Stanley, Koschitzke, Wilkes. Can't fit em all in the side and he's currently behind all four in line for a key forward spot. Playing 22 would be an excellent achievement given that.

If he can't get past these 2, we have a very serious problem.

[WinnersOnly]

Riewoldt, Stanley, Koschitzke, Wilkes. Can't fit em all in the side and he's currently behind all four in line for a key forward spot. Playing 22 would be an excellent achievement given that.

If he can't get past these 2, we have a very serious problem.

Why is everyone writing off Beau Wilkes and Kosi as realistic forward options?

Beau Wilkes grew legs towards the end of the year when he got his opportunity. He is a solid competitor in the air, good on the lead and a great shot on goal ala Kosi. IMO his mobility at ground level and ability to affectively lead up the ground put him just ahead of Kosi in my view.

Kosi is nearing the end of his career, however he was playing good footy to half way thru the year when he had to carry the burden of rucking as well. Watch some of the earlier games to see how well he was going. He will remain a solid option up forward if required.

I believe the Saints will play 3 talls this year which IMO will look better when they play the more mobile options in Roo, Wilkes & Lee or Roo, Wilkes and Hickey.

[dragit]

Riewoldt, Stanley, Koschitzke, Wilkes. Can't fit em all in the side and he's currently behind all four in line for a key forward spot. Playing 22 would be an excellent achievement given that.

If he can't get past these 2, we have a very serious problem.

Why is everyone writing off Beau Wilkes and Kosi as realistic forward options?

Beau Wilkes grew legs towards the end of the year when he got his opportunity. He is a solid competitor in the air, good on the lead and a great shot on goal ala Kosi. IMO his mobility at ground level and ability to affectively lead up the ground put him just ahead of Kosi in my view.

Kosi is nearing the end of his career, however he was playing good footy to half way thru the year when he had to carry the burden of rucking as well. Watch some of the earlier games to see how well he was going. He will remain a solid option up forward if required.

I believe the Saints will play 3 talls this year which IMO will look better when they play the more mobile options in Roo, Wilkes & Lee or Roo, Wilkes and Hickey.

So you make a case for Kosi, but then go onto say that we will look better without him in the side?

I think the game has gone past Kosi, his contested marking is still good as is his kicking for goal, but his lack of agility and defensive pressure leaves a huge hole if we lose possession in the fwd line, goals from turn-overs are often the difference between winning and losing. I don't think he would have been re-contracted without "the clause"

As for Wilkes, he is a solid back-up IMO. 11 of his 15 goals last year came from 3 games against Melbourne and GWS, In 10 matches he had 5 goal-less games… He's doing alright but he's no star of the future, he's an honest battler.

If we are relying on guys like this to take us back up the ladder we are absolutely kidding ourselves. If Stanley, Lee, Hickey & White can't go past Wilkes & Kosi then we haven't drafted very well.

[plugger66]

Really he should be expected to play all 22 games. He's 22 and has been playing senior football for four years so it shouldnt be a body issue it will be form. I cant see any reason why Watters shouldnt be expecting 22 games out of him.

Riewoldt, Stanley, Koschitzke, Wilkes. Can't fit em all in the side and he's currently behind all four in line for a key forward spot. Playing 22 would be an excellent achievement given that.

That is all correct but the aim should be for him to play 22 the same with all on the list other than perhaps Pearce and Lever. I dont understand why people think that 6 or so games should be par for young players in a season.

Everyone may aim to play 22 games but if White for example played 6 it would be a great season. They are 2 different issues. In Lee's case I would hope he play at least 10-12 games baring injury. Either that or Kosi and Wilkes shock me on how they go.

[MrCordz]

Could he be a key back?

[bigcarl]

Could he be a key back?

I hope not. Was recruited as a forward and obviously has goal sense which is a rare commodity.

[Con Gorozidis]

What dragit said is spot on.

After the Geelong game - pelchen and the coaching staff vowed never to be put in the situation of relying on Kosi again.

If Lee isnt already better than Kosi and Wilkes - then we are kidding ourselves.

I like Wilkes as 3rd banana though - but if it wasnt for Kosi's contract -hed already be gone.

Why do people think we spent our 2 highest picks on Lee and Hickey?

[plugger66]

What dragit said is spot on.

After the Geelong game - pelchen and the coaching staff vowed never to be put in the situation of relying on Kosi again.

If Lee isnt already better than Kosi and Wilkes - then we are kidding ourselves.

I like Wilkes as 3rd banana though - but if it wasnt for Kosi's contract -hed already be gone.

Why do people think we spent our 2 highest picks on Lee and Hickey?

Did they really say that after the Geelong game? That is very harsh. I just cant remember them saying it.

[CURLY]

What dragit said is spot on.

After the Geelong game - pelchen and the coaching staff vowed never to be put in the situation of relying on Kosi again.

If Lee isnt already better than Kosi and Wilkes - then we are kidding ourselves.

I like Wilkes as 3rd banana though - but if it wasnt for Kosi's contract -hed already be gone.

Why do people think we spent our 2 highest picks on Lee and Hickey?

Why would you think that is having a go at Kosi and his ability to play senior football? This could of easily meant they had no option but to play a injured Kosi and as such the bloke struggled.

[Con Gorozidis]

They were in a situation where due to lack of tall options Kosi was required to play even when he was sick or injured.
This situation has arisen numerous times in the past 2 years and has been well documented ( ill, flu, ankle, stomach bugs etc etc etc)
It is not Kosis fault at all.
This is the situation I was referring to and it is pretty clear that this took place. The Geelong game was our last roll of the dice and we then we went and spent our 2 highest picks on replacement talls (one ruck and one fwd) to cover for this scenario.
As I said - not Kosis fault - but basically he was played on several occasions when he was sick injured or for whatever reason should not have been out there.
Kosi is a 6-10 game a year player realistically

[CURLY]

They were in a situation where due to lack of tall options Kosi was required to play even when he was sick or injured.
This situation has arisen numerous times in the past 2 years and has been well documented ( ill, flu, ankle, stomach bugs etc etc etc)
It is not Kosis fault at all.
This is the situation I was referring to and it is pretty clear that this took place. The Geelong game was our last roll of the dice and we then we went and spent our 2 highest picks on replacement talls (one ruck and one fwd) to cover for this scenario.
As I said - not Kosis fault - but basically he was played on several occasions when he was sick injured or for whatever reason should not have been out there.
Kosi is a 6-10 game a year player realistically

Your telling me a club would keep a player that is only good to play 6-10 games? Please thats a joke, Kosi yes like many talls his age should be rested once or twice throughout the year but to suggest he's only good to go for a quarter of the year is rubbish.

[Con Gorozidis]

They were in a situation where due to lack of tall options Kosi was required to play even when he was sick or injured.
This situation has arisen numerous times in the past 2 years and has been well documented ( ill, flu, ankle, stomach bugs etc etc etc)
It is not Kosis fault at all.
This is the situation I was referring to and it is pretty clear that this took place. The Geelong game was our last roll of the dice and we then we went and spent our 2 highest picks on replacement talls (one ruck and one fwd) to cover for this scenario.
As I said - not Kosis fault - but basically he was played on several occasions when he was sick injured or for whatever reason should not have been out there.
Kosi is a 6-10 game a year player realistically

Your telling me a club would keep a player that is only good to play 6-10 games? Please thats a joke, Kosi yes like many talls his age should be rested once or twice throughout the year but to suggest he's only good to go for a quarter of the year is rubbish.

Well he had a clause in his contract that he would get to play in 2013 if he played more than a certain amount of games in 2012. So the club had to keep him on for 2013.

In any case the proof is in the puddin. Check the stats if you like. He has played 4-8 good games and 10 shockers every year for the past 3 years.
He was great in 2009. Good in 07 and 08.
But very very limited in the last 3 years (10-12)
2009 is now ancient history.

[CURLY]

Well he had a clause in his contract that he would get to play in 2013 if he played more than a certain amount of games in 2012. So the club had to keep him on for 2013.

In any case the proof is in the puddin. Check the stats if you like. He has played 4-8 good games and 10 shockers every year for the past 3 years.
He was great in 2009. Good in 07 and 08.
But very very limited in the last 3 years (10-12)
2009 is now ancient history.

Im more than sure that if what you posted had any merit to it he would not have been given such a contract. Worst case if he had and your theory that he is only good for 6 games the StKilda coaching panel would only have given him less games and pissed him off.

[Con Gorozidis]

Well he had a clause in his contract that he would get to play in 2013 if he played more than a certain amount of games in 2012. So the club had to keep him on for 2013.

In any case the proof is in the puddin. Check the stats if you like. He has played 4-8 good games and 10 shockers every year for the past 3 years.
He was great in 2009. Good in 07 and 08.
But very very limited in the last 3 years (10-12)
2009 is now ancient history.

Im more than sure that if what you posted had any merit to it he would not have been given such a contract. Worst case if he had and your theory that he is only good for 6 games the StKilda coaching panel would only have given him less games and pissed him off.

he was given such a contract. it is a known known.
why would the st kilda coaching panel piss him off? 6 GOOD games is better than none and we are paying his wage anyway - a contract is a contract.
and also it wouldnt be bright to piss him off when his replacements - hickey and lee are totally unproven.
so 6 good games + 10 ordinary ones are still better than nothing.
of course it is sensible that he plays on.

all im saying is anyone who expects more than 6 good games from kosi this year should take a cold shower.

[CURLY]

Not one bit of what your saying makes any sense what so ever.

[Con Gorozidis]

Not one bit of what your saying makes any sense what so ever.

ok we can agree to disagree.

Although apart from saying everything i said is crap - you haven't articulated a clear position?

[CURLY]

Not one bit of what your saying makes any sense what so ever.

ok we can agree to disagree.

Although apart from saying everything i said is crap - you haven't articulated a clear position?

A clear position on what?

[Con Gorozidis]

Not one bit of what your saying makes any sense what so ever.

ok we can agree to disagree.

Although apart from saying everything i said is crap - you haven't articulated a clear position?

A clear position on what?

kosis position within the club
from both

a) contractual point of view

b) playing and coaching point of view

c) your view on his last 3 years performance (2010-2012)

d) your view on how you expect he will perform in 2013

[Wrote for Luck]

Ordinary for all of the above

[loris]

They were in a situation where due to lack of tall options Kosi was required to play even when he was sick or injured.
This situation has arisen numerous times in the past 2 years and has been well documented ( ill, flu, ankle, stomach bugs etc etc etc)
It is not Kosis fault at all.
This is the situation I was referring to and it is pretty clear that this took place. The Geelong game was our last roll of the dice and we then we went and spent our 2 highest picks on replacement talls (one ruck and one fwd) to cover for this scenario.
As I said - not Kosis fault - but basically he was played on several occasions when he was sick injured or for whatever reason should not have been out there.
Kosi is a 6-10 game a year player realistically

Your telling me a club would keep a player that is only good to play 6-10 games? Please thats a joke, Kosi yes like many talls his age should be rested once or twice throughout the year but to suggest he's only good to go for a quarter of the year is rubbish.

It worked well for a few seasons with Brad Ottens. Due to the fragility of his body the Pussy cats kept him in mothballs most of the season, then prior to finals he would be back playing. That happened 2 season before he retired. I think if Ottens hadn't been handled that way he wouldn't have been able to play out his last season IMHO. His last season he played more games if I recollect correctly that he had in the previous 3 seasons. Yet he was always ready to front up for the finals, and was fresh & did a good job each time.

Though I'm not suggesting Kosi is/was to the same elite standard as Ottens. But Ottens is just an example of a big man who was managed successfully and only played when needed at the end of the season.

[Con Gorozidis]

It worked well for a few seasons with Brad Ottens. Due to the fragility of his body the Pussy cats kept him in mothballs most of the season, then prior to finals he would be back playing. That happened 2 season before he retired. I think if Ottens hadn't been handled that way he wouldn't have been able to play out his last season IMHO. His last season he played more games if I recollect correctly that he had in the previous 3 seasons. Yet he was always ready to front up for the finals, and was fresh & did a good job each time.

Though I'm not suggesting Kosi is/was to the same elite standard as Ottens. But Ottens is just an example of a big man who was managed successfully and only played when needed at the end of the season.

The Bad News Bears did the same thing with Clark Keating in 02-03 - He only played 12 games in each of those years- but that included 2 grand finals (and 2 flags).

Some blokes simply cant play more than 12 good games of footy in a season (including finals). Kosi is one them IMHO.

If I was the coach id only be looking at playing Kosi in 8 games in the home and aways.

[paddy]

Kosi also gets completely hammered in the Ruck, when he has to play there.

If we can leave him in FF for the whole game, I think we would see greater return.

That being said, I would be surprised to see him playing in more than 10 games this year...

[plugger66]

It worked well for a few seasons with Brad Ottens. Due to the fragility of his body the Pussy cats kept him in mothballs most of the season, then prior to finals he would be back playing. That happened 2 season before he retired. I think if Ottens hadn't been handled that way he wouldn't have been able to play out his last season IMHO. His last season he played more games if I recollect correctly that he had in the previous 3 seasons. Yet he was always ready to front up for the finals, and was fresh & did a good job each time.

Though I'm not suggesting Kosi is/was to the same elite standard as Ottens. But Ottens is just an example of a big man who was managed successfully and only played when needed at the end of the season.

The Bad News Bears did the same thing with Clark Keating in 02-03 - He only played 12 games in each of those years- but that included 2 grand finals (and 2 flags).

Some blokes simply cant play more than 12 good games of footy in a season (including finals). Kosi is one them IMHO.

If I was the coach id only be looking at playing Kosi in 8 games in the home and aways.

Im unsure how you could manage that. I think he plays if he is inform and if he isnt he doesnt play unless the options are worse.

[Con Gorozidis]

Im unsure how you could manage that. I think he plays if he is inform and if he isnt he doesnt play unless the options are worse.

Kosi is experienced enough to make a call on this himself.

How many times in the last 3 seasons has he played a stinker and then post match (even during the match sometimes) some rumour comes out about an illness or injury he was carrying.

If your'e sick or injured DONT PLAY - tell the coaches on Wednesday youre not available. Dont try and be a hero - when all you end up doing is hurting the team.

How about he puts the team before his match payments?

[Gershwin]

I see Lee as a real full-forward who can lead hard, take a mark and kick a goal.
Who lines up next to him in the forward pocket is a different story and I'm hoping Hickey can do that and change with McEvoy giving us a strong Ruck for 100% of the game. Kossie is a back-up who will probably play at times.