Window bolted shut?

[desertsaint]

And gram and goddard (especially gram) aren't a loss - their going creates an opportunity - let's hope some players grab it with both hands.

[bergholt]

And gram and goddard (especially gram) aren't a loss - their going creates an opportunity - let's hope some players grab it with both hands.

That's a big call. Lose two 150+ gamers and find drop-in replacements? Regardless of your opinion of the individuals, that doesn't just happen. It'll be a good result if Siposs and Newnes/Dunell end the season half as productive as Goddard and Gram were.

[Trixilver]

And gram and goddard (especially gram) aren't a loss - their going creates an opportunity - let's hope some players grab it with both hands.

That's a big call. Lose two 150+ gamers and find drop-in replacements? Regardless of your opinion of the individuals, that doesn't just happen. It'll be a good result if Siposs and Newnes/Dunell end the season half as productive as Goddard and Gram were.

It's a short term loss I'd say.

[desertsaint]

And gram and goddard (especially gram) aren't a loss - their going creates an opportunity - let's hope some players grab it with both hands.

That's a big call. Lose two 150+ gamers and find drop-in replacements? Regardless of your opinion of the individuals, that doesn't just happen. It'll be a good result if Siposs and Newnes/Dunell end the season half as productive as Goddard and Gram were.

It's a short term loss I'd say.

Yeah, agree with both of you - it's not necessarily a loss (well gram I still think isn't at all), and over the course of the season I expect neither to be missed. I may be wrong, hence the 'hope'.

[plugger66]

That's a big call. Lose two 150+ gamers and find drop-in replacements? Regardless of your opinion of the individuals, that doesn't just happen. It'll be a good result if Siposs and Newnes/Dunell end the season half as productive as Goddard and Gram were.

It's a short term loss I'd say.

Yeah, agree with both of you - it's not necessarily a loss (well gram I still think isn't at all), and over the course of the season I expect neither to be missed. I may be wrong, hence the 'hope'.

Do you think recruiting Lee and Hickey will improve us?

[bigcarl]

Do you think recruiting Lee and Hickey will improve us?

I do, absolutely. What do you think?

[SaintPav]

Do you think recruiting Lee and Hickey will improve us?

I do, absolutely. What do you think?

I''l buy in here.

Not immediately as they would be seen as longer term replacements for Roo and Kosi. I can't see how could play all these talls in the team at the same time.

[plugger66]

Do you think recruiting Lee and Hickey will improve us?

I do, absolutely. What do you think?

Then you must think losing BJ and Gram will mean we will really struggle this year?

[desertsaint]

Do you think recruiting Lee and Hickey will improve us?

Let's hope. How can we know?

[plugger66]

Do you think recruiting Lee and Hickey will improve us?

Let's hope. How can we know?

Its just that you think losing a player who has finished in the top 5 in the B&F 3 times and a nearly Norm Smith medalist wont be a loss as the season goes on so it would seem strange that a no gamer and a 12 gamer would be a gain at any stage this season.

I think my point is losing BJ and Grammy are definite disadvantages this season and a very big one at that.

[evo]

Lee and Hickey play in different positions to BJ and Gram and will probably improve us in their possies. Having said that I dont think we can cover the loss of two very experienced players unless some others step up.

[plugger66]

Lee and Hickey play in different positions to BJ and Gram and will probably improve us in their possies. Having said that I dont think we can cover the loss of two very experienced players unless some others step up.

Yes I know that but to say we wont miss those 2 by half way through the year completely under values their worth. Lets face a year or 2 ago some people on here thought BJ was the best player in the AFL. Now we wont miss him. Come off it guys. lets make the discussion sensible.

[White Winmar]

Goddard leaves a significant hole, even if some on here deny it. Even though not at his best in the past two years, we still have to find a replacement who gets it about 25 times per game and uses it better than most.

[bigcarl]

Do you think recruiting Lee and Hickey will improve us?

I do, absolutely. What do you think?

Then you must think losing BJ and Gram will mean we will really struggle this year?

We've needed a proper full forward for some years and hopefully Lee is it. We lacked ruck depth to the extent that Blake had to take over when Ben was injured last year. Hickey can fill that slot.

So in that sense, yes, of course it improves us.

Does the loss of Goddard and Gram weaken us? In other ways, yes.

We may be bereft of running defenders, which is one reason I was surprised to see both Gram and Raph delisted.

Is Newnes big enough to do that role?

[Con Gorozidis]

We've needed a proper full forward for some years and hopefully Lee is it. We lacked ruck depth to the extent that Blake had to take over when Ben was injured last year. Hickey can fill that slot.

So in that sense, yes, of course it improves us.

Does the loss of Goddard and Gram weaken us? In other ways, yes.

We may be bereft of running defenders, which is one reason I was surprised to see both Gram and Raph delisted.

Is Newnes big enough to do that role?

dunnel and roberton can play that role
and siposs can play bjs role (albeit not as good yet but getting there)

[SaintPav]

Goddard leaves a significant hole, even if some on here deny it. Even though not at his best in the past two years, we still have to find a replacement who gets it about 25 times per game and uses it better than most.

In total agreement WW. Do you think the club did the right thing?

[BigMart]

Goddard is a massive hole.

In a team full of average kicks he was critical!

Still finished top 4 in the B+F in a supposed poor year. Armo and Jack finished 9th and 8th in break out years.... I just think everyone wanted BJ to play the same game he did in the 2010 GF every week?!

Gram was very consistent in 2012 after injury hurt him in 2011 early. His run and carry and experience was also important in many games.

Not only that, BJ improves a competitor much the same way Luke Ball improved Collingwood!!

We are most certainly in transition.

[SaintPav]

Goddard is a massive hole.

In a team full of average kicks he was critical!

Still finished top 4 in the B+F in a supposed poor year. Armo and Jack finished 9th and 8th in break out years.... I just think everyone wanted BJ to play the same game he did in the 2010 GF every week?!

Gram was very consistent in 2012 after injury hurt him in 2011 early. His run and carry and experience was also important in many games.

Not only that, BJ improves a competitor much the same way Luke Ball improved Collingwood!!

We are most certainly in transition.

In the short term yes but what about the other side of the argument? Frees up our salary cap and we did receive three players for BJ out of the comp (Hickey, TDL and Spencer White). The decision may take 3-5 years to play out.

[bergholt]

Goddard leaves a significant hole, even if some on here deny it. Even though not at his best in the past two years, we still have to find a replacement who gets it about 25 times per game and uses it better than most.

In total agreement WW. Do you think the club did the right thing?

The club did the right thing because we're not going to be contending for five years anyway. May as well get some youngsters in, tighten up the wage structure and get ready to drop fast with the hope that we'll come straight back up.

[White Winmar]

Goddard leaves a significant hole, even if some on here deny it. Even though not at his best in the past two years, we still have to find a replacement who gets it about 25 times per game and uses it better than most.

In total agreement WW. Do you think the club did the right thing?

I think so Pav. They're planning for the future and have freed up significant space in the cap by not meeting Goddard's hefty demands. Unlike some, I think we'll be very competitive this year. If we can jag a couple of quality FA's at the end of the season, we could easily go back to being serious contenders. I have faith in the pelican and I can see where he is going with his list management strategies. The Goddard decision might mean some short term pain, but we've already been compensated in the form of Hickey(who I really rate),nas well as allowing us to become serious players in the FA market.

[SaintPav]

Goddard leaves a significant hole, even if some on here deny it. Even though not at his best in the past two years, we still have to find a replacement who gets it about 25 times per game and uses it better than most.

In total agreement WW. Do you think the club did the right thing?

I think so Pav. They're planning for the future and have freed up significant space in the cap by not meeting Goddard's hefty demands. Unlike some, I think we'll be very competitive this year. If we can jag a couple of quality FA's at the end of the season, we could easily go back to being serious contenders. I have faith in the pelican and I can see where he is going with his list management strategies. The Goddard decision might mean some short term pain, but we've already been compensated in the form of Hickey(who I really rate),nas well as allowing us to become serious players in the FA market.

Nice one WW.

[bigcarl]

We've needed a proper full forward for some years and hopefully Lee is it. We lacked ruck depth to the extent that Blake had to take over when Ben was injured last year. Hickey can fill that slot.

So in that sense, yes, of course it improves us.

Does the loss of Goddard and Gram weaken us? In other ways, yes.

We may be bereft of running defenders, which is one reason I was surprised to see both Gram and Raph delisted.

Is Newnes big enough to do that role?

dunnel and roberton can play that role
and siposs can play bjs role (albeit not as good yet but getting there)

So what would Newnes' best position be? Is he an onballer Dal Santo type?

[SainterK]

That's alright #33 will be back to his best this year and can jimmy it open...boom tish

[desertsaint]

Do you think recruiting Lee and Hickey will improve us?

Let's hope. How can we know?

Its just that you think losing a player who has finished in the top 5 in the B&F 3 times and a nearly Norm Smith medalist wont be a loss as the season goes on so it would seem strange that a no gamer and a 12 gamer would be a gain at any stage this season.

I think my point is losing BJ and Grammy are definite disadvantages this season and a very big one at that.

but I've seen gram play - no loss. I don't rate him as I thought him a bad influence on the field (and now it seems possibly off it as well). I'm talking 2013 here - i believe gram would not be a regular by the business end of the year. And bj - well lets just say he hasn't been at his best since he took that screamer.
But I'll concede he'll be hard to replace as an individual player, still avery, very good player - it's more a belief (hope) that the team could fit better as a unit, and it's an opportunity for someone to stand up.

[Wrote for Luck]

without judas means Dal is the obvious tag, and likely see him play forward pocket occasionally. you could say he was the obvious tag anyway. not only did we get two or three good prospects for judas but certainly opens it up for Siposs, Gears, Dempster to create more from the back. we will miss him a little in the centre and not really going forward. Gram and Cripps were shoddy overhead which for me is a bugbear and based purely on this I personally won't miss them.

judas got a lot of possies but was on auto pilot I reckon. and with his pace dropping off, if he gets off to a bad start at essonscum, could really poo his pants over there. sounds like wishful thinking but could happen.