How good are Armo and Steven actually?

[bergholt]

Every good side needs a good midfield. Our next two midfield leaders are Jack and Dave. How good are they?

I reckon these twenty guys are all definitely ahead of them:

Swan, Ablett, Watson, Pendlebury, Mitchell, J Kennedy, S Thompson, Boyd, Murphy, J Selwood, Hayes, Judd, Dangerfield, Beams, Cotchin, Dal Santo, Priddis, Sewell, O'Keefe, S Selwood

If we're being nice, we'd consider them in a group with:

Greene, Griffen, Sidebottom, Tuck, McLean, A Swallow, Grigg, Cornes, Redden, Anthony, Stanton, Kelly, McVeigh, Carrazzo, Gaff, N Jones, Ward, Barlow, Rockliff, Jack, Hannebery, Cross, Montagna, Black, Boak, Fyfe, Kerr, Martin, Foley

Does that sound fair? You could make the case that quite a few of these guys are still a bit ahead of both Steven and Armo, and in terms of disposals per game - ALL of them are.

While we've still got Hayes and Dal Santo going strong in that top group, I reckon we'll go OK. If Armo and/or Steven can join them this year then we'll do well.

On the other hand, if they never reach the level of the twenty in that true A-grade group, then we're going to have a lean few years.

[plugger66]

All those you named as ahead are definitely ahead. I would suggest Griffin as way ahead of them as well as would Sidebottom, Hannebury, Joey, Black, Fyfe, jack. Carrazzo and Martin. Matter of fact most of those in the second group are ahead. I would think if they were around 20 in the mids we would be a lot better than we are because we also have Lenny and Dal who are clearly in the top 20. Realistically they need to improve about as much as they did last year from their previous year to get close to the top 20. Even a guy like Tuck probably had a better year.

I really like Jack and hope he can improve that much because he has great pace. Not as sold on Armo but was proved wrong last year and hopefully will again this year.

[lefty]

It depends on what role they are playing. I noticed you didn't put Luke Ball anywhere, I'd consider Armo similar to Ball, he's you're hard in and under, you're grunt.

Steven is our speed, but he doesn't have that silky skill that a Dal Santo has, he still rushes and panics, and his kicking isn't the greatest, too many times it goes along the ground, probably because hes running 100 miles an hour and just needs to slow down a tad when kicking rather than rushing.

Armo imo is ahead of Steven, they're different players, but Armo has a better kick, goes in harder, tackles hard, I like that, he's doing what he's suppose to. He usually kicks a goal or two a game as well.

Still I think we could do with more midfield depth, we have heaps of forwards, lost some in defense, but our midfield needs more, I'm not sure Ledger is quite there yet, seems similar in style to Joey.

[bergholt]

Matter of fact most of those in the second group are ahead.

Yeah, look, I don't completely disagree with that. There's 30 in the second group. So that means that they're outside the top 50 midfielders in the AFL. And I forgot Bartel, Thomas, Mundy, Hodge, Wells, Van Berlo, Vince, Ball.

If we don't get a few midfielders into the top 50 in the next two years then it's going to be a long cold winter.

[bergholt]

It depends on what role they are playing. I noticed you didn't put Luke Ball anywhere, I'd consider Armo similar to Ball, he's you're hard in and under, you're grunt.

He was injured this year - I have a short memory! He's definitely in that group.

I'm not sure Ledger is quite there yet, seems similar in style to Joey.

If Ledger ends up being All-Australian twice like Joey then I'll be ecstatic!

[dragit]

I would suggest both outside the top 50 comfortably at this stage. Massively over-rated on here, with some suggesting Jack could get an AA selection early last year.

Sloane, Bennel, Greene, Coniglio and plenty more will give them a run for their money in the next year or two.

I love Armo & Jack, but you are right, they still need to improve a lot if we are to contend any time soon.

[Kickit]

Jack is contesting the ball pretty hard. If he can just get a bit better and start winning it more often he'll be pretty good.
Armo , he's been a few years in the system now, I hope he has some more in him. At the moment he's somewhere in between Leigh Montagna and Dean Polo.

[SainterK]

First time I think I've seen Armo so trim arriving to preseason a month or so ago?

Jack needs to (and just a casual ob on my part) work on removing the dark sags under his eyes to truly take it to another level.

[plugger66]

First time I think I've seen Armo so trim arriving to preseason a month or so ago?

Jack needs to (and just a casual ob on my part) work on removing the dark sags under his eyes to truly take it to another level.

I know its your opinion but what does that actually mean? I reckon that wouldnt have an effect on his footy and having seen him up close many times i have never seen them anyway.

[8856brother]

First time I think I've seen Armo so trim arriving to preseason a month or so ago?

Jack needs to (and just a casual ob on my part) work on removing the dark sags under his eyes to truly take it to another level.

Why would this help his game?

Are you trying to suggest something? If so what?

[The Redeemer]

Both B graders at the moment.

Out of the two, Steven looks closest to becoming an A grader in time.

Armo looks like he is a B grader however he is a tough nut and does everything seemingly well enough.

[Sainternist]

Jack needs to (and just a casual ob on my part) work on removing the dark sags under his eyes to truly take it to another level.

Could he be suffering from insomnia? Hopefully he won't resort to taking Stilnox again.

[bergholt]

Both B graders at the moment.

Out of the two, Steven looks closest to becoming an A grader in time.

Armo looks like he is a B grader however he is a tough nut and does everything seemingly well enough.

Just out of interest, would you say the second group in the OP are B graders or A graders?

I'd probably classify the first group as stars - could be up there in Brownlow Medals - and the second group as A graders - would get a game at just about any club. B graders then would be guys who wouldn't necessarily walk into a game at a strong club, which I suppose is about where Armo and Jack are. Does that tally with your thinking?

[The Redeemer]

Both B graders at the moment.

Out of the two, Steven looks closest to becoming an A grader in time.

Armo looks like he is a B grader however he is a tough nut and does everything seemingly well enough.

Just out of interest, would you say the second group in the OP are B graders or A graders?

I'd probably classify the first group as stars - could be up there in Brownlow Medals - and the second group as A graders - would get a game at just about any club. B graders then would be guys who wouldn't necessarily walk into a game at a strong club, which I suppose is about where Armo and Jack are. Does that tally with your thinking?

Greene, Griffen, Sidebottom , Tuck, McLean, A Swallow, Grigg, Cornes, Redden, Anthony, Stanton, Kelly, McVeigh, Carrazzo, Gaff, N Jones, Ward, Barlow, Rockliff, Jack, Hannebery, Cross, Montagna, Black, Boak, Fyfe, Kerr, Martin, Foley.

Some of the names above are complete rubbish including McLean (he gets the ball because he does not get tagged and has awful disposal), Anthony (another hyped youngster from a nothing club), Carazzo (still average disposal), Barlow (crap disposal and slow), Cross (crap disposal even in his peak - all he does is handball much like CJ), Foley (always injured).

The rest are above Armo and Steven with the ones I have singled out are below or of less value going forward.

[Teflon]

They are outside the second group.

Steven has A grade potential aka Swan.
Armo needs to bring it with consistency......he still has large gaps in games he goes AWOL.

Our midfield really worries me - we all know how important a deep midfield is to success and we dont have it.

Heaps of fwds......and Trent Denis Lane (WTF?)......cause we need 28 small fwds .........

[WinnersOnly]

This is the reason we worked so hard to get Caddy because they know he will be an A grade midfielder. It didn't eventuate unfortunately, but perhaps someone will jump out from our current list ?

[saintbob]

It depends on what role they are playing. I noticed you didn't put Luke Ball anywhere, I'd consider Armo similar to Ball, he's you're hard in and under, you're grunt.

Armo's no where near the quality of Ball!!!!

[chook23]

GOP at best

[DK27]

Both these guys have deficiencies in their games that hold them back from being A graders. As stated, both are not in the top 50 midfielders in the league. I am sure they are working on the limiting factors.

Of note; I have watched a few games from last season and Steven was used as a tagger a couple of times and was beaten easily. (He was tagging Jones in the Melbourne game, was killed, and Jones isn't that good). His kicking is 50/50. Half rubbish. His game is limited so if he drops off a bit might find himself out of the team. I love his attack on the ball and his run and carry with pace. Tackles well. Love the guy actually. Doesn't sound like it from my comments.

Also; Armitage is really strong and courageous. A bit slow. Good left foot. Right is for balance only. He too predictably turns onto his left. In centre square set ups he is better when the opposition get the ball. He tackles really well forcing ball ups or turn overs. When he gets the ball in traffic, for a powerful guy he doesn't hold his position very well to get the ball off. His disposal in close is easily disrupted. Does the hard work to get the ball then coughs it up too often. That vision in close and strength to get the ball off is hard to pick up if not impossible.

Steven could become an A grader by working really hard on his kicking. Armitage, as others have stated, can improve, but unlikely to ever be A grade.

We need to develop, trade for, or get through free agency at least 4 A grade mids in the next year or 2 to replace Hayes, Dal Santo, Goddard and Montagna.

Ross? Markworth? Newnes? Saunders? Ledger? Dunell? Wright? Curren? Minchington? Any of these likely to stand up?

All comments are 'in my humble opinion' of course.

[bigcarl]

Armo has all the skills but doesn't win enough of the ball imo. Steven wins plenty of the ball but doesn't always do enough with it.

Both have plenty of upside and plenty of room for improvement, which we need them to find consistently this season.

[borderbarry]

I know I am repeating things, but how about Geary into the mid field? We have plenty of replacements for him in the back line, such as Newnes, Wright. etc.

[SainterK]

I know I am repeating things, but how about Geary into the mid field? We have plenty of replacements for him in the back line, such as Newnes, Wright. etc.

Keep repeating it Baz, I'm a believer....

[chook23]

I know I am repeating things, but how about Geary into the mid field? We have plenty of replacements for him in the back line, such as Newnes, Wright. etc.

Keep repeating it Baz, I'm a believer....

great trier but he needs to improve his sloppy disposal........his weakness

[Wrote for Luck]

I think we have found spot for Geary which under assumes his ability and thus works, would get shown up in midfield imo. But potential future leader.

Reckon Armo and Jack have shown enough to warrant further optimism. Developmentally Jack has impressed and potentially has the greater upside.

But gotta love the Armo. Players who hurt players. Never underestimate that. Most we can hope for him is improved consistency I reckon otherwise what you see is what you get.

[SainterK]

I know I am repeating things, but how about Geary into the mid field? We have plenty of replacements for him in the back line, such as Newnes, Wright. etc.

Keep repeating it Baz, I'm a believer....

great trier but he needs to improve his sloppy disposal........his weakness

A lot of inside mids aren't the best disposers of the footy, I don't think it's as imperative in there....we just need some more guys who will win the hard ball and get it to someone else?