Rucking matters

[borderbarry]

The second ruckman we took, the youngster Pierce, I think you will find if he lives up to what he has shown so far, he will be our first ruckman.

[gringo]

The second ruckman we took, the youngster Pierce, I think you will find if he lives up to what he has shown so far, he will be our first ruckman.

From the highlights reel he looks a proper ruckman. Some guys just know how to tap it to the right spots and Pierce seems to have that.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

He may indeed be very good. In about 6 years. Him still being available when our last pick came around apparently changed our plans for that pick, as we were expecting him to be well gone by that point. It seems he ticks an awful lot of boxes, but just needs to get his body in order, after 3 injury interrupted years (put down mainly to his huge growth spurt, it would seem).

[Dave McNamara]

He may indeed be very good. In about 6 years. Him still being available when our last pick came around apparently changed our plans for that pick, as we were expecting him to be well gone by that point. It seems he ticks an awful lot of boxes, but just needs to get his body in order, after 3 injury interrupted years (put down mainly to his huge growth spurt, it would seem).

HI APS, any idea who we had originally planned to pick - a certain bloke who ended up missing out completely maybe...?

Also..., it was posted a while back on here by someone else that our boy beat the Skunk's new FIGJAM when they played... despite spotting him about 20kgs, and the experience of already playing against men in the SANFL... however no more details were provided...?


And whilst I'm on a roll with the questions... Tony you posted that Jack N will be a player in 2013 season. Do you have anything to add as to why you feel that way? Jack succeeding would be doubly sweet considering the 'deal' that he was part of for us to get him...

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

I wouldn't be surprised if we were planning to pick Roberton at 75. We apparently only rated 45 in the draft and were never planning to use that pick (75) on anyone other than upgrading Dunell, but then Gram got the ass and it changed our plans. I haven't heard specifically who we were hoping to get at 75 on the day, but as I said, it wouldn't surprise me if it was going to be Roberton, to take Gram's place, but then when Pierce was still there we thought he was too good to refuse. Then of course we had to then give Winmar the ass in order to be able to free up that last spot to get Roberton. Considering we were apparently expecting Pierce and anyone else we originally rated to be gone by 75, Roberton is the only one that makes sense that we had in mind for that pick (unless there was someone else that went after 75 that we were also keen on, but I wouldn't bet on it).

As for that Champs game (Vic Country v SA), Grundy would have had the better game overall by a fair way, I'd say, but apparently Pierce had the better of the ruck contests when they went head to head, according to a couple of those who have seen the game.

Who is Tony? I'm not sure who you are referring to with that question about Jack Newnes, but I wouldn't be expecting too much from him next year, although he does look to have filled out quite nicely so far this preseason, so that will probably help him out, as he was pretty light this year. He may be able to play to the sort of level Siposs played to this year, or perhaps a fraction below. I do like him a lot going forward though. Some who follow us reckon he is going to be a "star". I don't necessarily see him being that good, but I think he can be a level below that and won't be at all surprised if he plays 150+ games. He apparently has a terrific work ethic and attitude and seems to have a real dip and his leadership potential gets talked up a bit. Having excellent endurance and very good footskills won't hurt him, either.

[Dave McNamara]

Whoops, I was unclear... Tony is Tony74.

Thanks for another comprehensive post APS.

That is very impressive that our boy was able to get the better of the ruckwork against a bloke with more experience and 20-odd more kilos!

How did he do that??? It can't all have been outjumping Ted Bundy...?

[bergholt]

I don't necessarily see him being that good, but I think he can be a level below that and won't be at all surprised if he plays 150+ games. He apparently has a terrific work ethic and attitude and seems to have a real dip and his leadership potential gets talked up a bit. Having excellent endurance and very good footskills won't hurt him, either.

Sounds a bit like a bloke I didn't rate at all in his early years - Lenny Hayes.

[Kickit]

Could be where our list management starts to get a bit "ruthless"
Last year we clearly needed another ruck. McEvoy and Stanley both injured.
I'm not sure that Hickey right now is anything more than cover for that scenario.

But what we've done is draft a kid with an upside ( other than a career backup like Pattison ).
What that means is that in the future when we have another young ruck capable of backing up ( Lever? ) we have a pretty red hot trade available.

[cannavaro17]

Coulda Mac ever play in defense... he did so against richmond and did a decent job there imo?

[plugger66]

Coulda Mac ever play in defense... he did so against richmond and did a decent job there imo?

He has never played in defence. he has played like a ruckman did in the 60 and 70's as a ruckman dropping back into defence. he could never play on a man though.

[BackFromUSA]

McEvoy will have to play that role as a ruckman dropping back to be third man up against the resting ruckman and gorillas that our defence cannot handle at 196cm and above proven goal kickers such as Petrie, Tippett, Cox that can destroy us, but I would back Fisher, Blake, Simpson etc to play against 193- 195 types one and one and beat them or break even.

When McEvoy floats back, then Hickey or Stanley have to play the more traditional ruckman around the ground versus the opposition ruckman ... This creates a loose in defence for the opposition and we have to manage our forward line to ensure that we leave the least worrisome player loose as result.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

Whoops, I was unclear... Tony is Tony74.

Thanks for another comprehensive post APS.

That is very impressive that our boy was able to get the better of the ruckwork against a bloke with more experience and 20-odd more kilos!

How did he do that??? It can't all have been outjumping Ted Bundy...?

No worries mate and you're welcome. I think the thing with Pierce is that he has better athleticism than Grundy at this point, who, at 100kg or so already, may have been too heavy to get off the ground much. A bit like how the lighter and less experienced Rhys Stanley was able to jump all over Darren Jolly in their centre bounce battles in the preseason game just before R1 last year. I've been told that Grundy would probably have been considered "overweight" by AFL clubs and that he'd need to possibly slim down a bit once he got into an AFL club.

I'd suggest that his athleticism would have been one of the big attractions with Pierce, especially with the recent announcement of the new ruck rules, where the ball will be thrown up quickly around the ground and with no grappling allowed prior to it being thrown up. Height and leaps are likely to be big assets. I hear that we rated the athleticism of both Hickey and Pierce to be better than Grundy's, so it will be interesting to see how their careers all pan out under the new rules and whether Grundy does have to lose a bit of that bulk in order to compete.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

I don't necessarily see him being that good, but I think he can be a level below that and won't be at all surprised if he plays 150+ games. He apparently has a terrific work ethic and attitude and seems to have a real dip and his leadership potential gets talked up a bit. Having excellent endurance and very good footskills won't hurt him, either.

Sounds a bit like a bloke I didn't rate at all in his early years - Lenny Hayes.

It does indeed! He's definitely an interesting one and I won't be super surprised if he ends up damn good, because he does have a lot of the tools necessary, IMO and gets to learn from the great man himself. I really do love the way he has a red-hot crack and he has very good skills and terrific endurance, so I guess it's just a matter of him proving that he can A: Win his own ball, and B: Win good amounts of the ball, which seem to be the question marks that he had on him when he entered the AFL.

Apparently he was one of those that was in consideration when GWS had their 12 "17yo concessions" (how they got the likes of Jeremy Cameron and Treloar and Shiel) the year prior to entering the AFL, after a good year in 2010, but they overlooked him and then he apparently dropped off a bit in his draft year, which saw him drop down the order a bit (from where he was expected to go, 12 months earlier).

When you think about it though, he had more of an impact in his first year than Siposs did in his (although Arryn almost certainly have played more had he not gotten injured) so there is probably no reason why he couldn't do at least as well this year as Arryn did in 2012, especially since he was used sparingly, so isn't likely to suffer "2nd year blues" (which seems to be more of an issue for those who have played more of a full year in their first). Chances are he'll be keen as mustard to play more in 2013 and with some added bulk and fitness base, I won't be surprised if he plays some good footy and gets a nomination for the Rising Star award at the very least.

[plugger66]

I don't necessarily see him being that good, but I think he can be a level below that and won't be at all surprised if he plays 150+ games. He apparently has a terrific work ethic and attitude and seems to have a real dip and his leadership potential gets talked up a bit. Having excellent endurance and very good footskills won't hurt him, either.

Sounds a bit like a bloke I didn't rate at all in his early years - Lenny Hayes.

It does indeed! He's definitely an interesting one and I won't be super surprised if he ends up damn good, because he does have a lot of the tools necessary, IMO and gets to learn from the great man himself. I really do love the way he has a red-hot crack and he has very good skills and terrific endurance, so I guess it's just a matter of him proving that he can A: Win his own ball, and B: Win good amounts of the ball, which seem to be the question marks that he had on him when he entered the AFL.

Apparently he was one of those that was in consideration when GWS had their 12 "17yo concessions" (how they got the likes of Jeremy Cameron and Treloar and Shiel) the year prior to entering the AFL, after a good year in 2010, but they overlooked him and then he apparently dropped off a bit in his draft year, which saw him drop down the order a bit (from where he was expected to go, 12 months earlier).

When you think about it though, he had more of an impact in his first year than Siposs did in his (although Arryn almost certainly have played more had he not gotten injured) so there is probably no reason why he couldn't do at least as well this year as Arryn did in 2012, especially since he was used sparingly, so isn't likely to suffer "2nd year blues" (which seems to be more of an issue for those who have played more of a full year in their first). Chances are he'll be keen as mustard to play more in 2013 and with some added bulk and fitness base, I won't be surprised if he plays some good footy and gets a nomination for the Rising Star award at the very least.

You seem to know a lot more this year than in previous years. You even know what GWS may have wanted. Of course i will be told I am negative but it really seems you have found some new friends. by the way you do realise most players dont make it, surely.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

I do realise that, hence saying in one of my posts the other day that I'm not confident that any of Webster, Shenton, Lever, Staley, etc are going to make it, but if I think someone has what it takes to make it I'll say so. If you have a problem with that, I suggest you take it up with someone who is interested.

As for who was up for grabs when GWS made their selections, I believe that was pretty common knowledge, as I'm pretty sure they had to nominate themselves and most if not all who did probably went to the combine that year, just like how the 4 GWS "tradeable 17yo selections" in the past two years had to nominate themselves and I think possibly all went to the combines in their respective years. Newnes was apparently one of those who nominated himself and was consequently up for grabs for those 12 spots, at the end of 2010, but got overlooked, as I said. If you have any evidence to the contrary, or for anything else that I've said, I'll be glad to hear it, but I trust my source.

You may come on here to mess with others to get your jollies, but I have no interest in doing that and I say what I believe to be true, to converse with others who likewise want to talk footy without getting into all the childish bickering and dick measuring contests and so on, so that's what I do.

[plugger66]

I do realise that, hence saying in one of my posts the other day that I'm not confident that any of Webster, Shenton, Lever, Staley, etc are going to make it, but if I think someone has what it takes to make it I'll say so. If you have a problem with that, I suggest you take it up with someone who is interested.

As for who was up for grabs when GWS made their selections, I believe that was pretty common knowledge, as I'm pretty sure they had to nominate themselves and most if not all who did probably went to the combine that year, just like how the 4 GWS "tradeable 17yo selections" in the past two years had to nominate themselves and I think possibly all went to the combines in their respective years. Newnes was apparently one of those who nominated himself and was consequently up for grabs for those 12 spots, at the end of 2010, but got overlooked, as I said. If you have any evidence to the contrary, or for anything else that I've said, I'll be glad to hear it.

I have no problem at all with what you think. I was pointing it out to you. As I said you seem to know a lot more than in previous years which is good for some on here. By the way do you still think players should be picked on their form weekly no matter how thay have gone in previous games?

I reckon there are a few on here who have inside knowledge or previous inside knowledge which is always good. WW for one. Cant think of others at the moment but im sure there are and then there are others who think they have inside knowledge. Gee I am going to cop it tomorrow. Its going to hurt.

By the way nice changing of what you initially wrote. Now you have a source as well as common knowledge. thats good and to finish it off with that last paragraph should get many on your side and none on mine. That will really hurt but at least I know Im not making things up about a source unless people now call BF a source. And I love talking footy. Lived with it 24 hours a day for 14 years. Just dont like people pretending to be what they are not. Now I should cop it even more. APS you have more bonus points than me because you write many paragraphs. That always makes many think what is written is either true or inside knowledge. However we both know the truth.

By the way i dont doubt your passion. It is amazing. And that is the truth.

[BackFromUSA]

In my opinion based on my several lengthy conversations with Jack (and he is a fine young man) ... I personally think Jack is 1 season away from having an impact as an AFL regular not because of his work ethic or attitude to training but because he needs another pre season after this one to reach elite fitness and strength levels that will allow him to compete and have the absolute confidence to compete. Last year he played contest to contest sometimes running on empty and willing himself ti the next contest. 11 games this year would be a good outcome for him. Comparing Jack to Lenny is unfair. He is more like a young Joey, in my opinion and needs like Joey did to develop an AFL body before he can become a very good AFL player. In his favour he is a clear thinker and usually makes very good decisions on field and I am confident can become a leader both on and off field. He may be a very good sub this year as he can play back, mid or forward.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

I have no problem at all with what you think. I was pointing it out to you. As I said you seem to know a lot more than in previous years which is good for some on here. By the way do you still think players should be picked on their form weekly no matter how thay have gone in previous games?

I reckon there are a few on here who have inside knowledge or previous inside knowledge which is always good. WW for one. Cant think of others at the moment but im sure there are and then there are others who think they have inside knowledge. Gee I am going to cop it tomorrow. Its going to hurt.

By the way nice changing of what you initially wrote. Now you have a source as well as common knowledge. thats good and to finish it off with that last paragraph should get many on your side and none on mine. That will really hurt but at least I know Im not making things up about a source unless people now call BF a source. And I love talking footy. Lived with it 24 hours a day for 14 years. Just dont like people pretending to be what they are not. Now I should cop it even more. APS you have more bonus points than me because you write many paragraphs. That always makes many think what is written is either true or inside knowledge. However we both know the truth.

By the way i dont doubt your passion. It is amazing. And that is the truth.

I was editing my initial post at the time you submitted yours and didn't see that you had replied until I submitted my edited post, just two minutes after you submitted yours. Hopefully you don't actually think I noticed your post at the exact moment you posted it, had the time to read your post, then go in and edit what I had written and write a whole new paragraph, all inside two minutes. I edit most posts I ever do until I'm happy with them and that one was no exception.

Were you actually being sincere with your initial post? With you it's extremely difficult to tell and it seemed just like more of the usual sarcasm. Judging by what you've said in your edited post, it seems it was though, now that you're suggesting that I've been lying.

We do know the truth and that is that I know that I write what I believe to be true and that you are guessing about whether I'm lying or not, but are very much incorrect. As I said, if you have any evidence to prove that anything I've said is not correct then please let me know. I don't want to be writing anything that isn't and I'm happy to be corrected if something I've said is not the case. To the best of my knowledge it is though and I didn't come to that conclusion lightly at all. If you think I come on here to make stuff up then you are laughably off the mark. If you want me to believe that you "don't doubt my passion" then you need to believe that, otherwise I have nothing else to say to you. For you to suggest that probably says a lot more about you than it does me though. In my experience it is usually those who lie a lot who are regularly accusing others of lying. You've even defended lying on here in your posts in the past.

BTW, I like the irony of this comment: "Just dont like people pretending to be what they are not". Don't you openly admit to coming on here and acting completely differently to how you are in your life away from here? What would you call that?

I also don't doubt your football passion, but I also know you love to be the centre of attention on here and that you like to get others riled up and so on, for your amusement, or whatever and that that is part of the reason why you have gotten involved in so many shitfights, etc, which derail so many threads that are supposed to be about the football that we all supposedly come on here to talk about, which is one of the major reasons I was gone from here for 6 months, because I was getting sick of wasting my precious time sifting through pages and pages of junk and bickering and so on, just to get to some good footy discussion. It's like you try to make this whole place about you, rather than the St Kilda footy club and many of us just aren't that interested in you, or anyone else in particular, as we're just here to talk about our club and the footy.

That is why I added that final paragraph, not to "get many on my side and none on yours" as you put it. Anyway, I'm sure you wouldn't care even if I did, because as you keep on telling us, over and over again, you don't care what anyone on here thinks of you. Unless it is you who has been lying? Is that what you meant by "we both know the truth"? For someone who doesn't care what anyone here thinks of him, you sure do seem to be thinking about it a lot, with your comments about "bonus points" and "getting many on side". I thought we were all on the same side here, or at least are just here to talk about footy and the club we love? You're talking about this like it's a competition. Am I missing something? Is this forum a competition of some sort that I'm not aware of and if so what is the prize we are playing for?

And I'm not sure what my posts being longer than yours has to do with anything. Again with the measuring. It's not a competition. This is just how I post and from memory it's how I've posted since I first joined a footy forum. I believe in quality over quantity, but I also like to be thorough and get all my points across and if writing something long is what it takes for me to get my post to the quality stage and to get all that is in my head out, then that is what I do. I can type pretty quickly, so it's no big deal. If you think I do it to convince someone of something I don't believe to be true then you are sadly, sadly mistaken.

[plugger66]

The funny thing is that my first post on any topic is always usually about the topic. people think because you disagree or think they are wrong you are derailing the topic. Couldnt be further from the truth. I may start an a discussion or a fight as many would call it but it is because I disagree. If I agree I aint touching the topic or very occasionally saying they are right.

And yes i am sarcastic. Most say it is the lowest form of wit where as I think it is funny. Always have. And yes is real life I am different to on here but apart from obvious bulls*** I never make up anything I say. And yes you are right I ouldnt give a tuff who gets the points or not but that doesnt mean I think people should lie. I am not saying you are at all but your posts are completely different from the last few years so it either means you knew more than you told us previously, you have new friends who know more or you are copying stuff off another site. That is all it can be. And I say that with experience.

[Cairnsman]

LOOK! A ulysses butterfly!

[loris]

LOOK! A ulysses butterfly!

[Yaysaints]

Gee just as well u will stick to the topic boys, because that seems pretty close to an argument.

It's odd that in ruck we have Big Mac Rhys hickey and pierce. We seem equally blessed with tall
Forwards and yet , obviously kosi is a forward/ ruck and yet neither. And STILL contracted.

[Yaysaints]

Gee just as well u will stick to the topic boys, because that seems pretty close to an argument.

It's odd that in ruck we have Big Mac Rhys hickey and pierce. We seem equally blessed with tall
Forwards and yet , obviously kosi is a forward/ ruck and yet neither. And STILL contracted.