Why not Hickey to full back?

[samoht]

Cloke is 108 kgs - I don't think Hickey has the body strength to compete against someone like him (1 on 1) as he's giving away close to 20 kgs in real terms - if you take into account his extra height, if that makes sense...
i.e. Hickey is 5cms taller and should therefore weigh 5 kgs more than Cloke - but actually weighs 12 kgs less, at 96 kgs.

Cloke would easily outbody him.

Big bodied defenders like Rutten, Maguire or Wilkes(in theory, anyway) are more ideally suited vs a Cloke type.
Wilkes was averaging about 14 possessions a game (and 5 marks) as a defender, before he came to St Kilda - which are not bad stats. Maguire, by comparison, who had a very good 2012, averaged 13 possessions and 5 marks (over 16 games in 2012) - so Wilkes did slightly better, than Maguire, as a dedicated defender.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

so you want us to ignore an entire season when claremont was stable and write him off as a backmen after 3 games when claremont were under a new coach and all the issues that brings along with them trying to readjust the fwd line after losing wilkes. right.....

where did i say disregard 2011 ? i said in 2012 he was by far a much better forward in the WAFL than he was a backman... lets not forget although solid in 2011 as a backman it wasnt enough to get him drafted or to that point considered outside of a possible rookie selection for Freo who in the end passed on him, yet in 2012 after a very solid season as a forward in the WAFL saw his name put forward as a top prospect to get drafted, it was his 2012 form as a forward that made St Kilda look at him and decide he was worth giving up pick 12 for otherwise we could have picked him with the last pick the year earlier ... but again thats just my opinion

i doubt tom lee and the st kilda football club give two s***s about what st kilda fans think of him and the hype that surrounds him. all that matters is what the coaching panel and the team internally think of his output and performance. my point was not about tom lee or the club but again the fans having an "Expert opionion" on a player they probably havent seen play for more than 5 games.

this is an internet forum 99% of things posted on here are opinions from fans and i dont think many one here (i know i dont at least) proclaim to be "experts" on the matter my comment about Tom Lee being a confidence player is more in line with when he gets on a role during a game he tends to get better and better i remember watching the game against the swannies where Tom went on a rampage destroying all who came at him the crowd were roaring and it gave him even more of a lift only to do it all again a few months later in the finals against the swans .. so my opinion is based that the hype on him if it generates some possitive responces to Tom from the fans will hopefully see him lift that bit more like it did more than a couple of times in the WAFL

ok. so you agree with me. and those afl players he kicked bags on arent worth much chop, including one we were reportedly willing to through away cripps, pick 25, pick 26 for. absolute insanity.

i think most people would say that that rumoured trade scenario was madness for Mitch Brown and i would imagine it has been somewhat exagerated as is the case with lots of trade rumours.. Tom could only play against those he came up against and either way he did a pretty damn good job as a forward

because you know, that worked so well for jack watts when he was struggling to keep up with the pace of the game. the game is littered with examples of young fwds having to go down back to build their tank and learn the running patterns that are required to be a fwd. lee would do very well to play some games down back like wilkes did.

yes because having a bag of goals kicked on you does wonders for your confidence and really sets you up to be a fan favorite.. did you see Wilkes play for st kilda as a backman ? Beau's lack of pace was made very obvious the moment he was put in the back line he looked lost , for a bloke like Tom i would think spending time in the forward line watching how Roo runs the patterns with the experiance of guys like Milne , Kosi, Schnider there to help him while dealing with a third string defender on him as he builds up to the pace of the game is much better than plonking him at full back where the experanced players are not as pleantiful where he is going to be faced with possibly the no.1 forward in the area of the ground where accountabillity is at its highest priority ...

but again this is only my opinion ... time will tell what the plans are for Tom Lee

[st_Trav_ofWA]

so a number of clubs were interested in Lee in 2011 but none drafted or rookie listed him ... it was not until he added another string to his bow in that he was a darn good forward that he actually made it back onto an AFL list these are the facts ... your theory of being harder to be drafted as a KPD from the WAFL is based on ???

Harrison Marsh - tall defender - pick 44 Sydney Swans
Jackson Ramsay - Med Defender - pick 39 Collingwood
Kamdyn McIntosh - Tall defender - pick 31 Richmond
Brandt Colledge - med defender - pick 45 WCE
Alex Howson - Tall Defender - Rookie pick 26 Freo

all made it onto an AFL list this year ..

as for the trade i know what was reportedly offered up but lets be honest this is only guesses as the reporters are not in the room while the tradeing is being done hence why its called a rumour they use words like "its understood that.. " i would say there were lots of differant deals thrown around by both the eagles and St Kilda this one is just one that may have been over heard , there is no firm proof that that was the offer the saints were wanting to do nor that they would have done it .. its just rumoured to be one of the offers ...

lets just agree to disagree with regards to Beau playing back as i felt he was terrible in our back line ....

as for your last comment i do see Tom Lee playing a fair bit of VFL next season and i would imagine he would have pleanty to learn from Kosi a bloke who has played over 190 games of AFL football and often against some of the best defenders in the comp ...

as to you last point look at the title of this thread ... its not asking about who should play third defender its asking who can play full back ... i say not Hickey and definatly not Tom Lee

[defacto]

so a number of clubs were interested in Lee in 2011 but none drafted or rookie listed him ... it was not until he added another string to his bow in that he was a darn good forward that he actually made it back onto an AFL list these are the facts ... your theory of being harder to be drafted as a KPD from the WAFL is based on ???

Harrison Marsh - tall defender - pick 44 Sydney Swans
Jackson Ramsay - Med Defender - pick 39 Collingwood
Kamdyn McIntosh - Tall defender - pick 31 Richmond
Brandt Colledge - med defender - pick 45 WCE
Alex Howson - Tall Defender - Rookie pick 26 Freo

all made it onto an AFL list this year ..

as for the trade i know what was reportedly offered up but lets be honest this is only guesses as the reporters are not in the room while the tradeing is being done hence why its called a rumour they use words like "its understood that.. " i would say there were lots of differant deals thrown around by both the eagles and St Kilda this one is just one that may have been over heard , there is no firm proof that that was the offer the saints were wanting to do nor that they would have done it .. its just rumoured to be one of the offers ...

lets just agree to disagree with regards to Beau playing back as i felt he was terrible in our back line ....

as for your last comment i do see Tom Lee playing a fair bit of VFL next season and i would imagine he would have pleanty to learn from Kosi a bloke who has played over 190 games of AFL football and often against some of the best defenders in the comp ...

as to you last point look at the title of this thread ... its not asking about who should play third defender its asking who can play full back ... i say not Hickey and definatly not Tom Lee

you have got to be kidding. all the players you listed are turning 19 this year and only qualified for the draft this year. of course KPD kids get drafted from the wafl. i was referring to mature age recruits/recycled players. can you remember the last time one got picked up!!!! its very rare!!!

most of those kids played colts.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

your deleted post said it was much harder for KPD to be drafted from WAFL .. nothing about mature age players so i pointed out 5 KPD from the WAFL system were drafted this year ...
also most mature age players who get drafted now days have to be adaptable to play in multiple positions as a forward/mid or a Ruck/forward

Tom Lee is a forward who can play back but his best possition is going to be as a forward not as a backman ...

[defacto]

your deleted post said it was much harder for KPD to be drafted from WAFL .. nothing about mature age players so i pointed out 5 KPD from the WAFL system were drafted this year ...
also most mature age players who get drafted now days have to be adaptable to play in multiple positions as a forward/mid or a Ruck/forward

Tom Lee is a forward who can play back but his best possition is going to be as a forward not as a backman ...

i deleted it 30 seconds after the post because i realised were going around in circles and i really cant be f***ed going back and forth. you must have spent a while building up that response

we both know what i was referring to. pulling out kids from the state system/colts does not prove your argument especially in the context that we are talking about with lee

[DK27]

I can see how many posters want to see Lee as a forward. He looks exciting and could work really well as the 3rd tall working alongside Riewoldt. The issue the team has is there a lots of tall forwards and all can't play at the same time. Our forward line last year did OK. We need someone to play tall back to improve the team. Lee might be a great forward but if he is an OK defender then the team will be improved by playing him back. Same goes for Hickey in that there is no ruck or forward spot for him so if he is an OK defender, the team is greatly improved by playing him back. Someone will step up and take the spot and it will be interesting to see who does. Someone who can start back and move forward if the team needs it is really, really valuable. Real game changing type of players. I hope we can develop one.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

DK27 the thing is o dont think Lee will improve us at all as a backman ... if we get into at bind and we are hit by injurys then yeah he could be sent there as a stp gap but i dont think long term playing back is going to see us any great success.. in the tall forward position we basically have Roo , Kosi , Rhys , Wilkes and Lee .. Kosi i feel is almost done , Wilkes is a back up and rhys so far has problems staying on the park so there will be room for Lee in our forward line

[Sainternist]

I reckon Sean Dempster could make a pretty good full back. He's roughly the same size as a Scarlett and his one on one defensive skills are second to none.

[plugger66]

We have a FB and his name is Tom Simpkin. He is in his 3rd year of senior footy next year and his improvement from year one to two was huge. He will continue to improve and if he does at the rate he has so far he will hold down FB on all but 3 or 4 players in the AFl When we play the teams that have those players we will just have to have a defensive mind or the other option is to play Chips FB in those games and loose in all the other games.

[White Winmar]

As much as I hate to admit it, I think you're onto something there. Sounds the most plausible option at this stage.

[Sainternist]

We have a FB and his name is Tom Simpkin.

I don't see why he can't be the FB as well. It's funny about a year ago many people were talking him up in being the perfect replacement for Dawson. Now everyone is whinging that we don't have a FB

[plugger66]

As much as I hate to admit it, I think you're onto something there. Sounds the most plausible option at this stage.

Its 2013. I am a friend to everyone this year. Well at least tonight.

[White Winmar]

I have vowed to improve my behaviour in 2013. I hope it lasts longer than one night.

[White Winmar]

I have vowed to improve my behaviour in 2013. I hope it lasts longer than one night.

[SaintPav]

I have vowed to improve my behaviour in 2013. I hope it lasts longer than one night.

you probably won't. you're only human.

[DK27]

We have a FB and his name is Tom Simpkin. He is in his 3rd year of senior footy next year and his improvement from year one to two was huge. He will continue to improve and if he does at the rate he has so far he will hold down FB on all but 3 or 4 players in the AFl When we play the teams that have those players we will just have to have a defensive mind or the other option is to play Chips FB in those games and loose in all the other games.

Simpkin deserves first crack at full back I suppose, based on 2012, effort and potential improvement. With Fisher, Gwilt, Geary, Dempster and one of Gilbert, Blake, Siposs, Roberton, Newnes, Ray or Dunell we have most situations covered. Simpkin only got badly beaten once or twice all year but you need to recall he was protected by the coaches a bit by lining up on the 2nd or 3rd best forward usually. Why did Gwilt play on Hawkins when our supposed full back in Simpkin played? I don't think he is a proven full back yet as most of 2012 he didn't play on the opposition full forwards. At this time he is a solid defender and could improve into a full back. I hope he does.

I still see a role for a tall in the back half who takes the best tall forward every week as Dawson did. Apart from Fisher, I don't see any of the established players who are capable of doing the job...yet. Fisher is needed in a more attacking role so Simpkin or someone else has to step up.

Heres an idea! Play Fisher at full back and replace his attacking defender role. Who will step up into that role? Who is capable? Siposs, Roberton or Dunell?

[saint6709]

I reckon Sean Dempster could make a pretty good full back. He's roughly the same size as a Scarlett and his one on one defensive skills are second to none.

simpkin is virtually a clone of scarlett - height,weight,origin, tough game style and I think he can do for us what scalett did for cats - but we still need a BIG guy to take the monster forward and for me stanley seems the best guy to try for 2013

[White Winmar]

I have vowed to improve my behaviour in 2013. I hope it lasts longer than one night.

you probably won't. you're only human.

Day 3 and I'm looking good. Only 362 days to go! Thanks for the encouragement, SaintPav!

[loris]

I have vowed to improve my behaviour in 2013. I hope it lasts longer than one night.

you probably won't. you're only human.

Day 3 and I'm looking good. Only 362 days to go! Thanks for the encouragement, SaintPav!

Keep your pecker up WW............... you seem a 'glass half full' type of bloke

[White Winmar]

Thanks, Loris. I've got a bit of ground to make up. I didn't exactly finish last year in a blaze of glory. I'm optimistic about our chances this year. There is a sense of "last chance dance" for the champs. That can be a powerful motivator.

[Kickit]

Unless Full back is the easiest possible role in AFL ( in which case we'd be recruiting failed US basketballers ) I couldn't see any player who has never played there suddenly coming in and limiting the likes of Cloke, Hawkins, etc. I also can't believe that the same person who would "out wrestle" Cloke ( ask Max H if wrestling is the best way ) will be the guy to run with Buddy Franklin.
Hickey and Stanley have no experience in defense. ( Though Hickey's volleyball background may suggest that he'd be good at getting a fist to it and would have a certain level of agility).
Wilkes has some experience, but he's lacking a fair bit.
Lee has some experience.
Simpkin has some experience but is too short.

[saint6709]

Unless Full back is the easiest possible role in AFL ( in which case we'd be recruiting failed US basketballers ) I couldn't see any player who has never played there suddenly coming in and limiting the likes of Cloke, Hawkins, etc. I also can't believe that the same person who would "out wrestle" Cloke ( ask Max H if wrestling is the best way ) will be the guy to run with Buddy Franklin.
Hickey and Stanley have no experience in defense. ( Though Hickey's volleyball background may suggest that he'd be good at getting a fist to it and would have a certain level of agility).
Wilkes has some experience, but he's lacking a fair bit.
Lee has some experience.
Simpkin has some experience but is too short.

So play with 17 on the field ??? for us to have any chance in 2013 we need a couple of people to stand up and really suprise us - 1 of them is going to have to play as a tall in the backline - My vote is for stanley to be the first tried to fill this hole - he may not be the answer - but right now I am able to believe that he could be

[Kickit]

Unless Full back is the easiest possible role in AFL ( in which case we'd be recruiting failed US basketballers ) I couldn't see any player who has never played there suddenly coming in and limiting the likes of Cloke, Hawkins, etc. I also can't believe that the same person who would "out wrestle" Cloke ( ask Max H if wrestling is the best way ) will be the guy to run with Buddy Franklin.
Hickey and Stanley have no experience in defense. ( Though Hickey's volleyball background may suggest that he'd be good at getting a fist to it and would have a certain level of agility).
Wilkes has some experience, but he's lacking a fair bit.
Lee has some experience.
Simpkin has some experience but is too short.

So play with 17 on the field ??? for us to have any chance in 2013 we need a couple of people to stand up and really suprise us - 1 of them is going to have to play as a tall in the backline - My vote is for stanley to be the first tried to fill this hole - he may not be the answer - but right now I am able to believe that he could be

Stupid comment.
We would need Stanley to be better at it than any of Fisher, Gwilt, Dempster, GIlbert, Blake, Wilkes, Simpkin and Lee. ( Doubt that we'd need more than 8 tall defender's ).
Maybe he's a natural and he will just go out and do what the others have practised for much of their careers, but I'd be waiting for more than a rumour that he's practising there before I peg him in at full back.

All the players I mentioned have their limitations, but none of them are spuds either ( though Wilkes has looked close when he played in defense ).

[saint6709]

Stupid comment

We clearly have a different idea of how many cm's makes a tall defender