Will there be an upgrade?

White Winmar · Wed 19 Dec 2012 12:17pm

With Daniel Markworth going down with an ACL, who is likely to be upgraded onto the senior list? I'm really disappointed for Dan, as I had high hopes for him in the coming season. I believe he was quite capable of taking a significant step, as he seems to have some "special" qualities, including pace and the ability to do the out of the ordinary. I even begged Sainter K to annoint him, but alas, she didn't and now look what's happened!

That brings us to the serious question of what happens next. Do we upgrade anyone from the rookie list, and if so, who should it be? Do we go for Tommy Curren to boost our midfield depth, which I think is our greatest area of concern, or do we give a chance to go with a possible KP defender, being Jackson Ferguson? There are strong arguments for both players. Curren coming off the B & F at the Zebs has shown he is a hard worker and has a body that is ready for the AFL, while I hear that Jackson has added some bulk and at 194 cm has the height we might need down back. Or could it be Shenton, Minchington or Staley? Thoughts?

lloyd21 · Post: # 1289831Post **lloyd21** » Wed 19 Dec 2012 12:27pm

Ferguson

plugger66 · Wed 19 Dec 2012 12:30pm

No one until they are a chance to play. Why upgrade Ferguson now but we need Curren?

St Ick · Post: # 1289838Post **St Ick** » Wed 19 Dec 2012 1:10pm

plugger66 wrote:No one until they are a chance to play. Why upgrade Ferguson now but we need Curren?

What he said

AnythingsPossibleSaints · Wed 19 Dec 2012 1:17pm

White Winmar wrote:With Daniel Markworth going down with an ACL, who is likely to be upgraded onto the senior list? I'm really disappointed for Dan, as I had high hopes for him in the coming season. I believe he was quite capable of taking a significant step, as he seems to have some "special" qualities, including pace and the ability to do the out of the ordinary. I even begged Sainter K to annoint him, but alas, she didn't and now look what's happened!

That brings us to the serious question of what happens next. Do we upgrade anyone from the rookie list, and if so, who should it be? Do we go for Tommy Curren to boost our midfield depth, which I think is our greatest area of concern, or do we give a chance to go with a possible KP defender, being Jackson Ferguson? There are strong arguments for both players. Curren coming off the B & F at the Zebs has shown he is a hard worker and has a body that is ready for the AFL, while I hear that Jackson has added some bulk and at 194 cm has the height we might need down back. Or could it be Shenton, Minchington or Staley? Thoughts?

If we had to make a call right now it would be Curren, you'd think and the others in the mix would be Ferguson and Shenton. I have very high hopes for Minchington, but I don't think he'd be ready yet, or that it's a priority to get another forward pocket option into the team right now, by any means and I think Staley would be a ways off being worth upgrading, if he ever will be.

Shenton may be a bit of a smokey, particularly now that we've lost Gram and his speed out of the backline. I haven't seen him play down back, but by all reports he was far far better back there than he was in the forward line for Sandy and if he has any sort of shutdown game he might be an option to play back there, if we perhaps wanted to put Geary into the midfield rotations, possibly in a tagging role.

We'll probably want to increase our midfield depth, but we can do it two ways. One, by simply upgrading Curren, or two, by upgrading Shenton (if we think he's good enough to be playing in the senior team down back and he may get a crack at it in the NAB Cup, to see if he's likely to be up to it), so that we can move Geary into there, to put his elite endurance and ferocious attack on the ball or man to good use.

The NAB Cup will probably reveal all. If one of them is playing consistently there and looks good, they will probably be the one to be upgraded. Having said that, we may just wait until a need arises. We should probably only upgrade someone when we want them to play that coming week. There's no need to jump the gun.

Con Gorozidis · Wed 19 Dec 2012 1:19pm

Id say we will wait until a few weeks into the season to assess:

1. What we need (tall or short)
2. Form - Curren v Ferg.

Maybe an April elevation on the cards.

Eastern · Post: # 1289846Post **Eastern** » Wed 19 Dec 2012 1:58pm

Geez it must be Christmas. People agreeing with Plugga, myself included

!!

gringo · Post: # 1289849Post **gringo** » Wed 19 Dec 2012 2:33pm

I kind of agr....agre....agree with the old fool too. But just for the chance to be controversial I will say Shentonator because I like his hair and funny neck beard thing. He also is the most mature of them and could potentially play a role as he is a reload defender with some talent based on late season form. He might fight Roberton for the back-line mid-sized spot though.

ausfatcat · Post: # 1289850Post **ausfatcat** » Wed 19 Dec 2012 2:38pm

This happens everytime we havea spot to upgrade someone and the answer is always the same don't unless they are going to play that week, otherwise it is just adding money to our slary cap, and making the list less flexible for no gain

plugger66 · Post: # 1289853Post **plugger66** » Wed 19 Dec 2012 2:47pm

gringo wrote:I kind of agr....agre....agree with the old fool too. But just for the chance to be controversial I will say Shentonator because I like his hair and funny neck beard thing. He also is the most mature of them and could potentially play a role as he is a reload defender with some talent based on late season form. He might fight Roberton for the back-line mid-sized spot though.

51 may be old where you come from but to me it is the new 50.

gringo · Post: # 1289856Post **gringo** » Wed 19 Dec 2012 2:55pm

plugger66 wrote:
gringo wrote:I kind of agr....agre....agree with the old fool too. But just for the chance to be controversial I will say Shentonator because I like his hair and funny neck beard thing. He also is the most mature of them and could potentially play a role as he is a reload defender with some talent based on late season form. He might fight Roberton for the back-line mid-sized spot though.

51 may be old where you come from but to me it is the new 50.

Sorry, didn't mean to sound agist- more old because I assume with 470,000 posts or what ever you must have started on here in the 1960s.

AnythingsPossibleSaints · Wed 19 Dec 2012 3:08pm

gringo wrote:But just for the chance to be controversial I will say Shentonator because I like his hair and funny neck beard thing. He also is the most mature of them and could potentially play a role as he is a reload defender with some talent based on late season form. He might fight Roberton for the back-line mid-sized spot though.

Yeah Roberton would most likely be the road-block to Shenton getting upgraded. At this stage Roberton probably has a few things over Shenton, but one is definitely not pace, from what I hear, so with Gram gone from our backline and Gilbo probably needed for the midfield/wing more again next year, we may be looking to add some more pace to that area, which would give Shenton a better chance of getting the gig (if he's up to it).

Con Gorozidis · Wed 19 Dec 2012 4:18pm

AnythingsPossibleSaints wrote:
gringo wrote:But just for the chance to be controversial I will say Shentonator because I like his hair and funny neck beard thing. He also is the most mature of them and could potentially play a role as he is a reload defender with some talent based on late season form. He might fight Roberton for the back-line mid-sized spot though.
Yeah Roberton would most likely be the road-block to Shenton getting upgraded. At this stage Roberton probably has a few things over Shenton, but one is definitely not pace, from what I hear, so with Gram gone from our backline and Gilbo probably needed for the midfield/wing more again next year, we may be looking to add some more pace to that area, which would give Shenton a better chance of getting the gig (if he's up to it).

Just out of interest - can anyone rank the Saints players in order of pace at say 30-40 metres?

Siposstar#2 · Wed 19 Dec 2012 5:15pm

1/2.saad/Stanley
.....
.....
Second slowest. Armitage
Slowest. Mcevoy

You guys fill in the rest

Sobraz · Post: # 1289880Post **Sobraz** » Wed 19 Dec 2012 5:30pm

Siposstar#2 wrote:1/2.saad/Stanley
.....
.....
Second slowest. Armitage
Slowest. Mcevoy

You guys fill in the rest

Love the guy, but surely Kosi is holding up the tail..

Siposstar#2 · Wed 19 Dec 2012 5:33pm

Oh yes. Forgot about him. He takes armos spot haha

st_Trav_ofWA · Wed 19 Dec 2012 5:39pm

i reckon we will see who performs in the NAB cup and what our needs are once the season starts before we upgrade anyone .. i dont think we will upgrade someone unless we can see them pushing for selection in the seniors i mean there is no point upgrading someone to the main list to still play for sandy .. i think there is $ involved in upgrading a player to the senior list so i doubt we will burn the $ unless the player was a real chance to play some AFL games

AnythingsPossibleSaints · Wed 19 Dec 2012 6:06pm

Con Gorozidis wrote: Just out of interest - can anyone rank the Saints players in order of pace at say 30-40 metres?

I'd say that Saad is almost certainly the fastest over 10-20m, but once you start to get to 30-40m it could be a different story (although maybe not).

Over 20m Saad recorded a 2.86sec at the combine in 2011 and Markworth a 2.89. Spencer White also ran a 2.89 this year and Josh Saunders ran a 2.96. I read that Lee ran a 2.93 previously (which may have been back when he was originally drafted, or else 12 months ago, as I think he may have tested then as well- he didn't test this year due to injury). I imagine that Nathan Wright would also have run a sub 3 second time this year and that Milera probably would too, along with Rhys, or course (although he starts to really wind up once he gets to about 40-50m, I think). Apparently back in the day Roo ran a 2.93 or so.

I reckon the only other ones on the lists who would run a sub 3 for sure are Darren Minchington and Jack Steven, while Gilbert, Jones, Ledger, Webster, Murdoch, Curren, Shenton, TDL and maybe Dunell and Lever would also be a very good chance of doing so, I'd say.

Con Gorozidis · Wed 19 Dec 2012 7:33pm

AnythingsPossibleSaints wrote:
Con Gorozidis wrote: Just out of interest - can anyone rank the Saints players in order of pace at say 30-40 metres?
I'd say that Saad is almost certainly the fastest over 10-20m, but once you start to get to 30-40m it could be a different story (although maybe not).

Over 20m Saad recorded a 2.86sec at the combine in 2011 and Markworth a 2.89. Spencer White also ran a 2.89 this year and Josh Saunders ran a 2.96. I read that Lee ran a 2.93 previously (which may have been back when he was originally drafted, or else 12 months ago, as I think he may have tested then as well- he didn't test this year due to injury). I imagine that Nathan Wright would also have run a sub 3 second time this year and that Milera probably would too, along with Rhys, or course (although he starts to really wind up once he gets to about 40-50m, I think). Apparently back in the day Roo ran a 2.93 or so.

I reckon the only other ones on the lists who would run a sub 3 for sure are Darren Minchington and Jack Steven, while Gilbert, Jones, Ledger, Webster, Murdoch, Curren, Shenton, TDL and maybe Dunell and Lever would also be a very good chance of doing so, I'd say.

Yep - Tommy Lee had a 2.93 sprint time back in 2008 - which is why he can play FF.
(Seriously with White and Lee - we might have two genuine gun fwds in 3 years time)
TDL did a 2.88 in 2009.

I reckon Rhys takes about 40-50 to wind up. So TDL v Saad would probably the go over 50m....

kosifantutti · Wed 19 Dec 2012 7:39pm

Con Gorozidis wrote:Id say we will wait until a few weeks into the season to assess:

1. What we need (tall or short)
2. Form - Curren v Ferg.

Maybe an April elevation on the cards.

Why April?

When someone earns a spot in the 22, they get elevated whether its March, April or September.

AnythingsPossibleSaints · Wed 19 Dec 2012 7:54pm

Con Gorozidis wrote: Yep - Tommy Lee had a 2.93 sprint time back in 2008 - which is why he can play FF.
(Seriously with White and Lee - we might have two genuine gun fwds in 3 years time)

Tell me about it!

Con Gorozidis wrote:TDL did a 2.88 in 2009.

I reckon Rhys takes about 40-50 to wind up. So TDL v Saad would probably the go over 50m....

That is a slippery time indeed for TDL. Anything under 2.90 is seriously quick.

Dave McNamara · Wed 19 Dec 2012 8:18pm

AnythingsPossibleSaints wrote:
Con Gorozidis wrote: Just out of interest - can anyone rank the Saints players in order of pace at say 30-40 metres?
I'd say that Saad is almost certainly the fastest over 10-20m, but once you start to get to 30-40m it could be a different story (although maybe not).

Over 20m Saad recorded a 2.86sec at the combine in 2011 and Markworth a 2.89. Spencer White also ran a 2.89 this year and Josh Saunders ran a 2.96. I read that Lee ran a 2.93 previously (which may have been back when he was originally drafted, or else 12 months ago, as I think he may have tested then as well- he didn't test this year due to injury). I imagine that Nathan Wright would also have run a sub 3 second time this year and that Milera probably would too, along with Rhys, or course (although he starts to really wind up once he gets to about 40-50m, I think). Apparently back in the day Roo ran a 2.93 or so.

I reckon the only other ones on the lists who would run a sub 3 for sure are Darren Minchington and Jack Steven, while Gilbert, Jones, Ledger, Webster, Murdoch, Curren, Shenton, TDL and maybe Dunell and Lever would also be a very good chance of doing so, I'd say.

And if the only thing between him and the goal square was the ball... Tiprat!!!!!!!!!

Now mods, before everyone gets over their Christmas love-in and start fighting again... LOCK THIS THREAD.

White Winmar · Wed 19 Dec 2012 8:51pm

One thing is obvious. We have some pace in the team!

borderbarry · Wed 19 Dec 2012 10:56pm

I cant wait for the team to start playing practice matches. It will be interesting to see who gets a run at full back.

bergholt · Post: # 1289939Post **bergholt** » Wed 19 Dec 2012 11:40pm

White Winmar wrote:That brings us to the serious question of what happens next. Do we upgrade anyone from the rookie list, and if so, who should it be?

There are solid reasons to see all of Curren, Shenton and Ferguson this year:

- Shenton turns 23 at the end of next season so D-day has to be approaching for him. It'd be a shame to delist a promising player without seeing him actually play (as may have happened to Andreoli).
- Curren's been on the list for two years already and turns 21 next season. He's apparently made good progress in the twos so it feels like we'd want to assess him at the highest level sooner rather than later. That said, there's still time for him, it wouldn't be the end of the world if he had another strong year at Sandy and was in line for promotion this time next year.
- Ferguson might fill a tall defender gap for us and there's reportedly been interest coming from the Sydney clubs. He's younger than the other two and probably not ready yet, but it would suck to lose him for nothing without knowing what he's capable of.

But there's no hurry, and there'll be plenty of spots. Yes, only one can be promoted into Markworth's spot. However, another can be promoted after mid-season. And we'd usually expect another season-ending injury to someone - or a mid-season retirement from, say, Kosi? - so that could make a third spot if we needed it.