StThomo wrote:hungry for a premiership wrote:GT brought somewhat of a revolution to the St.K FC and did a lot of great things, but he would be the first to admit he's not without his flaws. What are they?
His strengths were great: He was/is first class when it comes to dealing with / teaching young men how to grow and mature into adults - he's a great teacher of kids - and his brand of footy is an exciting one to watch.
IMHO, he had 3 clear flaws / weaknesses -
1.) Not enough credence given to sports-science / player management / coaching infrastructure.
2.) Lack of match-day tactical nous
3.) Too much love given to only a certain few players who he would select above all others even if they were carrying injuries. As evidence of this I cite Brent Guerra and Heath Black, two gun players who I felt weren't given a fair opportunity by Thommo because they weren't a part of his special group.
StThommo, as I said on your other thread, I am thankful from the bottom of my heart for those great times in 04-05 that you brought us, and its absolutely saintsational that would would come on here and talk to us, but OMG the grovelling on that last thread was enough to make me want to puke, and I just had to bring some balance back. I hope you stick around and of course, I'd love to know what you think of my three fair, considered criticisms of your time as coach!
-HFAP
There are a lot of myths in footy - more than any other industry ive been involved in. To continually hear the way we played as "exciting to watch" doesnt clearly define the courage and effort of the playing group and I know that doesnt sit well with them. The team was incredibly brave and selfless. I tend to put it down to the supporters being starved of dominating teams like Carl, Ess, Coll & Rich who historically "owned" us. Your comments are fair and understandable however I have more than 3 clear flaws so I appreciate the favorable consiuderation there. I relation to the points I make the following remarks:
1.) We initiated altitude training in Potchestroom Sth Africa along with overseas training camps (also founded community camps you may remember). For memory we were either 14th or 15th in footy department spend which severely affected our ability to research, develop and invest in sports science albeit we implemented several intiiatives such as the "Wellness Program". I clearly remember pleading to the Board from 2000 as a Director until 2006 as coach that we must support our emerging, talented list with a commensurate level of off-field infrastructure & support to maximise their potential. I consider our player management strategies to have been "in-front-of-the-game". We must remember that most of the, lets call them "key" injuries - without any disrespect to lesser lights - were a result of knees, shoulders, broken legs, broken jaws and collision injuries. The soft tissue legend is exaggerated. Our Doctor is still there. Our physio was recruited by the Suns and still heads up their training regime. I still made some poor decisions in Training Services and contrary to popular belief it was by delegating and giving autonomy rather than too much control. Ask them, ask Bevo ask any staff member of the time. I completely subscribe to delegation. I was/am demanding - no mystery there. Our coaching/management regime was ahead of its time.
2.) Agree completely. I was heavily focussed on attitude and effort and at times it was to the detriment of game nuances. However I would like to think that the number of games "affected" by A&E against "match-day nous" was unanimous. I can equally remember several instances of terrific strategic planning that impacted the result and most would never have picked it up. Match day is tactically over rated outside what you have planned for and changing the outcome with matchups or a tactic during the game is more legend than fact. In essence I made sure they came to play. Whilst I was responsible for overall performance I allowed Bundy, Crippa, Jason, Burkey, Wal, Micky & others manage their responsibilities be it offence or defence when we coached to that structure or forwards, backs or midfielders under that system.
3.) Guilty as charged your Honor! Blacky & Goo were coached and managed very hard by me. I would equally be surprised if they didnt appreciate it in hindsight. Sometimes players need another last chance environment - such as Goo - for the penny to drop whilst others had some private issues that made preparation and commitment to the game difficult such as Blacky. We were an anywhere, anytime, anyhow team and the leaders just lost confidence in consistency of effort and reliability. Both on their day were terrific players and very valuable - some get through the net. Regarding the "love' thing? I'll wear that albeit its not a term that is usually related to my coaching style. Im like everyone else I suppose & can get seduced by effort & attitude of some such as Lenny (guilty), Roo (guilty), Vossy (guilty), Goose (guilty), Sammy (guilty), Neil (guilty), Bally (guilty), Powelly (guilty), Max (guilty), Bakes (guilty) etc etc to name a few.
Your views are considered, respectful and have merit. I had some weaknesses and some strengths. Undoubtably some things could have been handled better which affected the results. Equally there was some outstanding things achieved beyond expectation that have somewhat clouded external reality.
Great questions "HFAP" and thanks for the opportunity to discuss them with you and the fans. Hope they provide some clarity and understanding - maybe even some other robust debates which is fine!!
Cheers
Wow, thanks StThommo!!! You should know that I feel privileged and honored to get your personal thoughts and opinions to my questions.
I know that for me personally, and I'm pretty sure for every footy fan, I'd in all honesty probably give my left testicle to be a 'fly-on-the-wall' in the inner-sanctum of my footy team, to be there in the rooms for the pre-match adresses, to be in the coaches box during a game, to be in the 1/4 and 3/4 time huddles, etc, to gain insight into the minds and lives and workings of this team that, for reasons outside my control, is so fundamental to life as I know it! When St.Kilda wins, I am happy and life is more or less good. When we lose, a cloud gathers over my head and I have to suck up my frustration all week and wait for the weekend when we have another chance to win. Basically what I'm saying is that I really really appreciate the oppurtunity to engage with you here, and your words and opinions are very valuable to me!... And please, I am no judge and I charge you with nothing! If you grant me the credence to make judgements, then my judgement of your time as coach is nothing less than a commendation of almost the highest order! In fact, in all the time I've been a saints member (since 1990), your my 2nd favourite coach, behind Ross Lyon. 3rd is Stan Alves and then Ken Sheldon. Malcolm Blight is hands down at the bottom of the list, and I can't imagine I'll ever see a worse St.Kilda coach than him (at least I certainly hope not).
In response to your response:
1.) Very interesting. From what you've said, it would seem that it was not you, but the board who didn't give enough credence to the footy department. On the one hand, you were bringing in cutting-edge initiatives, whilst on the other, the board languished in last / 2nd last place on the footy dept. spending ladder. Okay, cool, I can blame the board for those injuries that cost us if not the flag, then at least a GF berth in '05, from now on (the last quarter of the '05 prelim was the most gut-wrenching 30 mins of my life, and I need
someone to blame, and I don't blame the players. We had that frigging game in our pockets only to humbly lay down and die as we were literally bent over and molested. At least, that's how I recall it).
2.) As usual, I admire your honesty and integrity. But, I've gotta say, I disagree with your comments about A&E vs tactical ability. Maybe in days past, when footballers weren't exactly what you'd call elite, world-class athletes, in those days the team with the greater A&E would win most games, but in this day and age, they indeed are elite, and you can be nigh on certain that every team is going to "come-to-play" (with the exception of port), and that the players of every team will give 100% effort all the time. The thing that I noticed when RL became our coach was that when the opposition got on top of us, they would rarely ever break us, and this enabled us to go on to win games that we would have previously lost. Now, I don't think for a second that the players were giving more effort for Ross than they were for you, so I can only put this down to tactics. And when I say "tactics", I'm not purely talking about match-day decisions like match-ups and interchange rotations and who to tag and positional moves etc... I'm also talking about the tactical mindset that has been ingrained into the players from pre-season. As football becomes increasingly more proffesional, the more the tactical ability of a coach will be worth its weight in gold, IMO.
3.) As I am not in the club, it's impossible for me to know what the A&E of players like Black and Guerra was like... all I can talk about is what I saw on the field, and I could never understand why either of them was allowed to go. Yes, it has since come out that Heath was in a severe battle with depression, and it may well be as Stinger said that he's a tool of a bloke, but the thing is this: St.Kilda exists to win games of football, not to foster Nobel Prize winners. I would have thought that we want good footballers 1st on our team, with the matter of what kind of bloke they are a distant 2nd. With Guerra, you say that "the penny dropped" after he left st.kilda and went to hawthorn, but from everything I saw on the field, he was every bit as good a player at St.Kilda as he has been at Hawthorn. Probably the 'tough-love' you gave him has indeed been good for him in the long run and turned him into a better off-field performer, but at the end of the day, it's what you do on the field that counts, and I was bitterly disappointed when he was shown the door, because I thought he did more than enough on the field to warrant his continued place in the team....
StThommo, I've got one more question, but I'm almost afraid to ask, because it feels as though its a personal question, but really it isn't. Still, though, I won't be offended if you don't answer (even though I'd really like it if you did!)
My question is this: Why, in all honesty, were you fired? Your performance in terms of win/loss certainly did not justify your sacking. You'd just taken us to 3 successive finals campains, something that hadn't happened for eons. I was sure that you'd eventually take us to a flag, and I still believe this to quite a large degree. So why were you sacked? I think the "too-many-hats" thing was the official reason given, but its pretty obvious that this was just a smoke-screen for the real reason.....
) over to post in this thread. 
I think that this thread's title would more accurately reflect your intentions if it read... "Considered critique of the Thommo years".
