Hi Saintsational......again. Its been a long time!

[stinger]

so many words...so little content....

Reminiscent of Tony's policy speeches...

Good point though Sting... when saying nothing..., be brief, eh...?

Actually, there was plenty of content... for those who can read/can be bothered to read... and I thank Grant for being in the latter catagory, and for his subsequent comprehensive answers.

i gave up reading your long winded posts a few months ago......haven't yet foed you though....

[loris]

I will NEVER have ANY capacity again at St Kilda. Nor should I. I had my time and are very proud of what was achieved and beleive the legacy from our era is sustainable and holding us in good stead. Time for others.

am and believe

Welcome back Spelly Still true to form I see

[azza12]

Hi GT, with the list you had at your disposal do you think you underachieved as a coach?

[Mackaysaint]

classy azza12
I personally was surprised we came so close in 2004 and frankly I believed we were the best team in 2005 only to be cruelled by injury at the pointy end of the season
GT put together a great bunch of people (character wise) who bonded together and played for each other. Lyon was gifted a great squad, he brought a different approach to play relying on the character and will of the players then sadly he fiddled with the mixture - bringing in a few who just didn't have the right character.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

i'm well mate.....steering clear of those punters you mentioned...does wonders for my general well being....yep...i grudgingly admit that caro is pretty switched on...but she still peddles crap at times...imho, that is...how do you think the saints will go this year???

I have concerns. No real substance to them just a feeling the fire may not be in the belly like it was with the older experienced guys. They absolutely need them to lock and load like they have never done before to improve their position from last year. A big ask after such a long enduring campaign. Doable but will require some very special leadership and coaching.

Completely agree with all that GT. If they get that fire in the belly back, then I have no doubt we can push up the ladder again, especially if some of the younger ones start to push up, but for me that fire/mojo being largely absent in the last two years is what has seen us drop down the ladder.

I have a feeling that many of them were scarred pretty badly by those finals losses and missed opportunities and that over the last couple of years (especially this year, in those close losses that we would have won in previous years) the thought of making the finals may have become a bit of a dread (due to the fear that they may lose again) rather than something potentially exciting and an opportunity to succeed, resulting in us losing those close games that we used to win.

Hopefully enough time has passed for most of them to have been able to heal/deal with those losses sufficiently now, or that all the new energy and faces that have come into the club in the past 14 months will have re-erergised them to the point that they now see playing finals as purely an opportunity to succeed again, and something to be excited about, rather than another opportunity to fail/fall short on a big stage again.

If it has, there is still time for this group to have a good hard crack again. We were after all only 4 wins off a top 4 spot this year and lost 4 games by 8 points or less, another one by 12 points and another one where we were 4 points down with less than 4 minutes to play, so it's not like we were miles away this year. Losing Goddard and Gram certainly doesn't help, but I believe that if enough step up to the plate and we have a good run with injuries we can cover for them.

[kimberly saint]

I suppose the most recent examples would be your take on us losing Ross and Goddard.

Caught up with Rossy & got his perspective. FWIW he is a career coach who sets incrediy high discipline standards & is manic in process. Great qualities but it has a use by date. I reckon 5 year stints is about right. I expect him to be in another state - probably Vic - in another 5 years. With BJ I don't think club wanted him enough. BJ was after tenure not just money. Another year he stays. U dont let great people walk out the door. Great clubs don't do that. We're not there yet.

Personally I believe if Goddard really wanted to stay at St Kilda an extra year wouldn't have been the difference for him. When you see Joey (a player that would probably walk into any midfield in the comp) take a 2 year deal on apparently reduced pay, you have to wonder if the difference between the two is their desire to stay at the club.

Agree club did not want him enough, they looked to the benefits of him going (cap room next few years draft pick etc) and think that they out weighed positives of him staying. And as for great clubs dont let great people leave, sum times money talks abblett jnr and hamill come to mind. Carlton or more to the point elliott thought no one would ever leave, and i would call geelong a great club to. Think the way saints delt with it war refreshing and looking in right direction..

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

From what I've been told, Goddard didn't really feel that the club wanted him in the end, at least not those doing the negotiations and so on, so when you combine that with the fact that Essendon showed him the welcome mat and love in a big way, and sold him on the idea that they are going to be in premiership contention very soon, as well as offering him a longer and much bigger contract, it was a pretty easy decision for him to leave in the end.

[cannavaro17]

Hey Grant great to have you on here!

Would you mind telling me what your strategy was during the draft, IE you have your list 1-99 and then just take the lowest numbers come your turn? Or does the order change depending on what you picked up?

Also any thoughts on our current list? I am quite excited personally as I am generally an optimist and like to think all picks we get could end up a mitchell/goodes and we have a lot <=40

[saintsfreak]

From what I've been told, Goddard didn't really feel that the club wanted him in the end, at least not those doing the negotiations and so on, so when you combine that with the fact that Essendon showed him the welcome mat and love in a big way, and sold him on the idea that they are going to be in premiership contention very soon, as well as offering him a longer and much bigger contract, it was a pretty easy decision for him to leave in the end.

If we didn't want him then why would we offer him a large contract?

[clarky449]

Why do people call Ross Lyon, Ro$$ Lyin or Toss Lyon?

[stinger]

classy azza12
I personally was surprised we came so close in 2004 and frankly I believed we were the best team in 2005 only to be cruelled by injury at the pointy end of the season
GT put together a great bunch of people (character wise) who bonded together and played for each other. Lyon was gifted a great squad, he brought a different approach to play relying on the character and will of the players then sadly he fiddled with the mixture - bringing in a few who just didn't have the right character.

good post...

[MCG-Unit]

..... With BJ I don't think club wanted him enough. BJ was after tenure not just money. Another year he stays. U dont let great people walk out the door. Great clubs don't do that. We're not there yet.

Couldn't agree more on that. The extra year may have done it. Still, it's hard to compete with the addtional year, plus more money and also the third party deal.....

[magnifisaint]

geez a lot of posters are massaging the turd in this thread

[stinger]

geez a lot of posters are massaging the turd in this thread

if you want to insult another poster, then go to big footy or somewhere where you might be appreciated ffs.....

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

From what I've been told, Goddard didn't really feel that the club wanted him in the end, at least not those doing the negotiations and so on, so when you combine that with the fact that Essendon showed him the welcome mat and love in a big way, and sold him on the idea that they are going to be in premiership contention very soon, as well as offering him a longer and much bigger contract, it was a pretty easy decision for him to leave in the end.

If we didn't want him then why would we offer him a large contract?

In the end I believe even the club admitted that he was going to be the 2nd highest paid on the list if he had stayed (two weeks or so earlier they said he would be highest paid, so they may have reduced his offer in the last week or so, as has been suggested was the case), and given that Roo had just been reveled to be on only $500K next year, I would suggest that BJ was going to be on less than that (which is also what I was told), as I don't think anyone else would be on more, so a sub $500K contract is not that big, at least not compared to what Essendon were offering him (and for one more year).

Those in charge of negotiations seemingly wanted him to stay, but they may have been a bit "meh" about it, meaning that they were happy for him to stay if they could get him for not a whole lot of money, or without risking a long term contract, but that on the other hand they wouldn't lose any sleep over it if he left and we got pick 13 in the draft, plus a heap of salary cap space, as a result.

Essendon, on the other hand, apparently put out the red carpet and made him feel like he was desperately wanted and I would suggest that he definitely noticed the difference there. Even those of us who support the club seemed to be very 50/50 about whether we wanted him to stay. Many were already talking lots of trash about him, which he would have seen with a quick look on the Saints board on BF, for example, or perhaps he might have received negative tweets and so on, or heard on the grapevine, whereas everyone who follows Essendon seemed to be super-keen for them to get him, many of whom would have made him very well aware of that. Again, he may have felt a whole lot more love coming from them than he did from us, on the whole, making his choice easier.

If we'd really desperately wanted him to stay he would be in Colorado right now, make no mistake about that. We wanted him to stay, but not so much that we were prepared to offer him what he felt he was worth, or for the length that he wanted, while he wanted to stay, but not so much that he was prepared to give up so much in order to do so.

In the end, I think both parties got what they ultimately wanted/what they considered most important, so both parties should be happy with the result.

He gets to the club that wanted him the most and who was prepared to give him the contract length and size that he wanted and who, I take it, he believes will be more likely to be in premiership contention in the near future (which is a huge factor for him, he would still be desperate for a flag), while we freed up lots of salary cap space to go hard for the likes of Mitch Brown and now for someone next year and also got pick 13, which we used to get Tom Hickey and an upgrade on another pick that landed us Spencer White, so we have done relatively well out of it too, by the looks of it.

[kimberly saint]

geez a lot of posters are massaging the turd in this thread

Saintsational atm kind reminds me of a out back pub. full blokes all day, drunk and fighting over silly s*** .Then this hot chick walks in, all of a sudden every ones behaved and trying to impress her

[SaintPav]

geez a lot of posters are massaging the turd in this thread

Saintsational atm kind reminds me of a out back pub. full blokes all day, drunk and fighting over silly s*** .Then this hot chick walks in, all of a sudden every ones behaved and trying to impress her

Could also be in an inner city bar/pub as well. Just the way blokes are.

What's wrong with that?

[kimberly saint]

geez a lot of posters are massaging the turd in this thread

Saintsational atm kind reminds me of a out back pub. full blokes all day, drunk and fighting over silly s*** .Then this hot chick walks in, all of a sudden every ones behaved and trying to impress her

Could also be in an inner city bar/pub as well. Just the way blokes are.

What's wrong with that?

where did i say any thing was wrong with it nackers

[asiu]

paying the respect that's due aren't we ?

... those without the manners or the inclination
can fu€k off to another thread.

even start one if you want
... may i suggest 'thommo is a wanker'

its not that hard really,
u cretin.

[asiu]

(and just so there's no misunderstanding)

that was in reply to the 'turd' poster.

...whoever it was.

[saintsfreak]

From what I've been told, Goddard didn't really feel that the club wanted him in the end, at least not those doing the negotiations and so on, so when you combine that with the fact that Essendon showed him the welcome mat and love in a big way, and sold him on the idea that they are going to be in premiership contention very soon, as well as offering him a longer and much bigger contract, it was a pretty easy decision for him to leave in the end.

If we didn't want him then why would we offer him a large contract?

In the end I believe even the club admitted that he was going to be the 2nd highest paid on the list if he had stayed (two weeks or so earlier they said he would be highest paid, so they may have reduced his offer in the last week or so, as has been suggested was the case), and given that Roo had just been reveled to be on only $500K next year, I would suggest that BJ was going to be on less than that (which is also what I was told), as I don't think anyone else would be on more, so a sub $500K contract is not that big, at least not compared to what Essendon were offering him (and for one more year).

Those in charge of negotiations seemingly wanted him to stay, but they may have been a bit "meh" about it, meaning that they were happy for him to stay if they could get him for not a whole lot of money, or without risking a long term contract, but that on the other hand they wouldn't lose any sleep over it if he left and we got pick 13 in the draft, plus a heap of salary cap space, as a result.

Essendon, on the other hand, apparently put out the red carpet and made him feel like he was desperately wanted and I would suggest that he definitely noticed the difference there. Even those of us who support the club seemed to be very 50/50 about whether we wanted him to stay. Many were already talking lots of trash about him, which he would have seen with a quick look on the Saints board on BF, for example, or perhaps he might have received negative tweets and so on, or heard on the grapevine, whereas everyone who follows Essendon seemed to be super-keen for them to get him, many of whom would have made him very well aware of that. Again, he may have felt a whole lot more love coming from them than he did from us, on the whole, making his choice easier.

If we'd really desperately wanted him to stay he would be in Colorado right now, make no mistake about that. We wanted him to stay, but not so much that we were prepared to offer him what he felt he was worth, or for the length that he wanted, while he wanted to stay, but not so much that he was prepared to give up so much in order to do so.

In the end, I think both parties got what they ultimately wanted/what they considered most important, so both parties should be happy with the result.

He gets to the club that wanted him the most and who was prepared to give him the contract length and size that he wanted and who, I take it, he believes will be more likely to be in premiership contention in the near future (which is a huge factor for him, he would still be desperate for a flag), while we freed up lots of salary cap space to go hard for the likes of Mitch Brown and now for someone next year and also got pick 13, which we used to get Tom Hickey and an upgrade on another pick that landed us Spencer White, so we have done relatively well out of it too, by the looks of it.

I very much doubt Roo would be the highest paid player on the list at $500k, I suspect Dal would be at the moment. IIRC Watters also said the offer to Goddard was substantially more than $500k. And as fans being 50/50 on whether they wanted him to stay or not, every supporter base is the same when one of their players shows strong signs of leaving at the end of the season. Scully, Ablett, Ward, Cloke etc. And of course Essendon fans were desperate for him, who wouldn't be excited if an A grader was linked to their club?

[St Ick]

On BJ, he will be a great player for Essendon. However, they've lost Prismall, Reimers, Lonergan, Dyson and a few other reasonable depth players. Then with their kids like Heppel and Hurley probably after inflated contracts now that the club is happy to pay out those sorts of dollars, it could create even bigger problems down the track.

I think every player can get more $s elsewhere, but very few big names move around and even less do it within the same state. Yes, the 4th year was no doubt a sticking point, but honestly, would you really leave a club over it?

Considering the state of our list having brought in some 20odd players new to the system over two years, a lack of 4th year to a contract could be considered extremely good list management. Whether he is injured in the 4th year, or if he has dropped his output to 10th in the pecking order, I can be confident that while I really would have loved for him to play his career out with us, the club is bigger than the individual and we made the best call imo.

We have overpaid long contracts in the past, regardless of whose fault that is, it has rarely worked for us so the new model, while it lost us a gun, has got to be a positive.

[gringo]

geez a lot of posters are massaging the turd in this thread

there is a lot more insight from someone that was at the club than from a group of dickheads calling half the list spuds and bagging 19 yo kids for their lack of talent. I liked it better when Armo's brother was on here than overblown under-educated opinions from someone that buys the herald sun and repeats the articles like they are gospel. Same with Siposs' folks, just a shame people are so keen to not look like sucks so insult them or their families until they go away.

[kimberly saint]

Can i ask why would grant feel the need to join a public forum and mingle and talk with the every day fan after all he has done, coached the side we all love mingled and worked with the so called experts of the game.
I respect it if he wish not to answer that, but i my self find it a bit od no offence

[Dave McNamara]

i gave up reading your long winded posts a few months ago......

Sting..., like wow...!

You have ADD too...?

From now on I shall hold you up as a proof-positive that our condition does not necessarily rule out pursuing a successful tertiary-based career.





(And at least there's one thing that you, GO and JB all agree on.)