Hi Saintsational......again. Its been a long time!

[cwrcyn]

Hi Grant.

Welcome back to SS

One thing I've always wanted to say to you

Thank you (and Rod Butterss) for making the correct decision to move on Malcolm Blight. To me, that day was the day the St Kilda football club finally grew up. It sent the message of "No one comes into our football club anymore and treats it with utter contempt and disrespects its people, no matter who they are"

The culture of self belief and independence that grew from that moment was a turning point in the club's history, particularly in the face of a ridiculous media campaign against you from many within those circles, and of course, Demetriou, who can hold a grudge like no other. Thanks for standing up for our club and holding firm to your beliefs and your methods in circumstances that some others would have crumbled in. The greatest indicator of your influence is the respect your former players have for you.








.

[gringo]

Instead your remembered as a bad guy who rolled Blight with out due process.

by whom???...not by me....or by the pro gt lobby on this forum.......i'm sure grant is well aware of which posters bagged him after he got the flick and are now sucking up to him

no offence to Grant but as soon as a coach is gone you have to work with what you have. Just like now with Watters I have to hope that we have made a good decision on him and will back him in every time. I always subscribe to the "king is dead long live the king" mantra- well except for Captain Blight. I hope I have never come across as a basher of the past coaches as they have all had their strengths and weaknesses. Grant is pretty unlucky because the Butterss v Thommo soap opera probably over shadowed the legacy he left.

he was booted just at a stage he was really getting the best out of his list and could have possibly won us a premiership. From the way he came in and his background it would have been a great fairytale ending, unfortunately as a club we are stuck with our one point fairytale.

[StThomo]

Firstly Grant, I just wanna say that it's really appreciated that you come on here to Saintsational. I doubt that too many other/any other(?) fan forums can boast of a recent coach, Board member (bit less recent) and player (ok bit less recent again ) who has joined up and can be bothered to share, and to participate in discussion/debate with us crazed fanatics. So thank you.

Welcome back GT. I think you are probably entitled to feel pretty hard done by from your coaching career. You came close and in the end got sacked just as you were on the cusp. History shows you went close but I still wonder sometimes if the stability had been there we wouldn't have progressed. I think you were pretty unlucky with luke Penny too, his body stands up and you may have been the greatest footy story of all time. He trained like a rolls royce just couldn't get on the park enough. Instead your remembered as a bad guy who rolled Blight with out due process.

I reckon Gringo has nailed it with the Luke Penny observation. Great recruiting get! Around mid-2003 you got him on the park, to fullback, freed Fraser to go forward... and immediately we started winning games! It was just so obvious even I could pick that turning point. Such a shame Luke's knee couldn't hold up.

Such a shame Aaron's kept him out for more than the 'two weeks'.

I reckon you and Watters have a similar list style, he seems to be building a team able to attack from all angles. After watching some of the games you coached recently you had assembled a fantastic attack squad. We certainly had a more entertaining brand of footy under you.

I can see it too. Question Grant. Looking ahead about seven years, triple premiership coach Cuddles retires back to look after the 'troubled' youth of Rockingham or Peppermint Grove, whatever... Harves' decides not to 'pick himself', so you once again step down from your Board position and into the coach's box...

What key thing/s would you do differently?

Watching from the stands, for mine it was defence. Under you, I was always confident against weaker teams (obviously) and also against lower scoring teams (like the Swines... despite that Preliminary Final).

But teams that flooded a bit less heavily than them, hence did not have all their players tied up in their back 50, and were quick...
so often we'd dominate, they'd then start to flood, we'd kick it to them(!)
They'd bring it out, and we would not cover their loose men! Arrrrrrghhhh! So frustrating!

Stopping that rot was the one big game-changing improvement under Ro$$y IMHO.

(As mentioned by another poster, Aussie was a major culprit, as was Frankie Peckett... though neither were orphans on that count. I can't comment on their training, but onfield I thought that both were very lazy. Once a piece of play was done, they'd pretty much stand around c/f running to man up/fill a dangerous space/create an option... That said, I do reckon they improved on that under you.)

Was that your take also Grant? Did you feel that under you it was attack at the expense of being caught on the rebound? Or were you also trying to get across that message of blokes needing to also 'do stuff' when they don't have the ball? Really interested in your thoughts on this...

Hey Grant, (not trying to give you a hard time) just wondering if you feel like some of the early contracts (bally etc) you were a part of set an unsustainable precedence of paying top dollar for our stars?

Losing BJ was disappointing, but do you think the 'Geelong' model of pay structure is the way to go? Clearly we ran out of cap space in a drastic way of the past 4-5 years...

Do you like what Pelchan is upto list-wise?

Complete rot - with respect. Our cap was in saintsational order. Our players were not paid top dollar by any means. Speak to Cooky & Bomber and they will tell u they followed our model, on field and off.

That's really interesting to hear Grant... so we are now just working our way back to that more level distribution of player payments!?!

The 'Geelong' model was really, originally, the Saint's model !?!

I certainly believe that system went a long, long, long... way towards the Hillbilly's success. I base that both from external observation, and from knowing people (not the names you mentioned btw) who helped set that up for them... sadly my only contacts within any AFL club. Seems the Skunks and Skid Marks are aiming for at least a somewhat similar system...

(When I first heard from my friends down there how the Hillbilly's had structured, and what that meant in terms of the quality of their overall list, c/f say, our supposedly infamous 'bottom six'...
well knowing how influential Saintsational really is...
I started calling on here for our club to adopt similar...
provoked some initial 'raised eyebrows' too, but I've noticed that now virtually ever poster seems to agree...

No doubt that's why the Saints are now moving towards this...

Whoops, delusions of granduer kicking in... I need to take more of Dr Spaceman's green pills... they always do the trick. )

Back to the topic... so when and why did the pay scales at St Kilda change? Around the time those two new AFL love-children were spawned...?

What could have been, eh? Oh well, this sorta' thing seems to be our club's history... but only for just a little bit longer believe...

So Grant, what's your opinion on any of this, and on the current recruiting direction under the Pelican et al? Appreciated.

Is it just me or is all this all just a bit NQR?

No it's not just you Pav... clearly something a bit NQR...

this thread got well into page six before any posters started potting each other...

Dave game trends flow & ebb. We came to play most weeks which took a few years to ingrain in our thinking. Historically Saints perceived as inconsistent (especially effort). Our mantra was 100% effort from 100% of the team, 100% of the time - no compromise. Structurally our defence was never really settled. We introduced a forward press in "05 put forward by Cripps & Mifsud after they travelled to Crows to watch training. No doubt in '04 our defensive mechanisms were vulnerable against teams that filled the back half - it was a new trend that was difficult to counter midstream and I take responsibility for that. Having said that '04 was about building a sustainable unit as it was our first year of relative success and performances took the team by surprise somewhat (we were a tad in front of our expectations). In '04,5 & 6 respectively we were 2nd, first and 8th in attack and 6, 3rd & 3rd in defence so we were not hopeless especially when see we were very close to the top 2 teams in defence. There had been a massive swing in focus mentality. Clubs were getting pissed off at defensive tactics applied by inferior teams so they in fact turned the tables and adopted a "squeezing mantra" that throttled the life out of opponents and later on the game IMO.
Defence doesnt singularly win premierships, TEAM pressure (defence) and defence structure does. However you must still take the necessary risks to score as scoreboard pressure is the biggest killer in a Grand Final. I remember the late tabby used to always say; "Running down the race 2 teams WANT to win as much as the other, then at a crucial point in the game 1 team BELIEVES it can - that is scoreboard pressure. Thats what cruelled our chances under Ross. The opposition was always close enough and a quick 3 goal spurt had u under immense pressure and they usually took the lead. There is no way I will turn any discussions on here into a Rossy V Thomo debate. He was sensational and came agonisingly close and should be respected as a great St Kilda person. Remember I tried to recruit him as an assistant at the start of '06 and he accepted only to change his mind a week or so later which in hindsight was a smart decision or he would've been sacked with the rest of the coaching team.
I have no idea when the TPP got out of hand after I left, others need to answer that.
On the recruiting strategy, its not one of my strong points and I stay away from selection - I coach.

[StThomo]

No disrespect intended Grant, but I'd like to know why you were particularly harsh on the Saints in the media, often being one being one of our biggest critics.

No harsher than I was before, during or after. It won't change. Id like to understand what u mean by harsh and discuss some particular incidents?

[StThomo]

Hi Thommo
Welcome back!

I've been following the Saints since the late sixties and I want to say that my favourite time of all was 2004 during the "10 in a row".
It felt so good to go along to games knowing we were going to win and play brilliantly.
You had put together a precocious young team with a mix of experienced players that simply played exhilarating, exciting football.
It was an absolute joy to watch and I thank you for that.

I don't know what you said to upset the Injury Gods (did you tell them a few home truths like you did the umpires?) but they sure made certain that the dreams we had back then were never realised!
Like man on the moon and the Jennifer Hawkins wardrobe malfunction I will always remember the moment when I heard you had been sacked. I was riding with my youngest son on the way home from primary school when a neighbour driving the other way honked and yelled out "They've sacked Thommo!". From there it was straight home and about 10 hours on SaintSational looking for answers and trying to come to grips with it.

I eventually warmed to Lyin because we won games but it was never the same.
We ground out wins but going to the footy felt more like going to the dentist. The enjoyment of the game was missing though it obviously felt good to win games.

I always watched Footy Confidential to get your take on issues where you would tell it like it is, as opposed to the "party line" from Garry Lyon, the slander from Hutchy and the inane mindless burbling from Carro. Certainly there is now no reason to watch the show next year.

I hope you (and your son?) will post regularly on this forum as we would love to hear your take on the issues of the day as well as answering all those questions about what really happened back then when we nearly had it all.
Looking forward to it.

Cheers Enrico. Hope u r well & after all these years its great to see you still involved.

[matrix]

f*** me there is some serious sucking up in here
even by the people saying 'where are the GT haters now'

seriously people
its so plain to see who is sucking and some are a complete surprise

good lord
while its great to be asking questions and getting some really good responses to question we've always wondered
sucking up makes u like a complete dill
give it a rest for f*** sake



Thomo
no chance of ever going back to the club in some capacity?
would you like to?
or just happy being out of footy and the media

[sasaint]

Great to have you back GT. You have always beem a great observer and commentator of the game. I am very much still a believer in our tam and what it can do and much of that is due to your legacy of installing a belief structure within the player group. I hope some of that belief structure can rub off on our fans too!

[stinger]

...i'm sure grant is well aware of which posters bagged him after he got the flick and are now sucking up to him

they need look no further than your or plugger's posts within this thread for text book examples.......

yawn...

[stinger]

Firstly Grant, I just wanna say that it's really appreciated that you come on here to Saintsational. I doubt that too many other/any other(?) fan forums can boast of a recent coach, Board member (bit less recent) and player (ok bit less recent again ) who has joined up and can be bothered to share, and to participate in discussion/debate with us crazed fanatics. So thank you.

Welcome back GT. I think you are probably entitled to feel pretty hard done by from your coaching career. You came close and in the end got sacked just as you were on the cusp. History shows you went close but I still wonder sometimes if the stability had been there we wouldn't have progressed. I think you were pretty unlucky with luke Penny too, his body stands up and you may have been the greatest footy story of all time. He trained like a rolls royce just couldn't get on the park enough. Instead your remembered as a bad guy who rolled Blight with out due process.

I reckon Gringo has nailed it with the Luke Penny observation. Great recruiting get! Around mid-2003 you got him on the park, to fullback, freed Fraser to go forward... and immediately we started winning games! It was just so obvious even I could pick that turning point. Such a shame Luke's knee couldn't hold up.

Such a shame Aaron's kept him out for more than the 'two weeks'.

I reckon you and Watters have a similar list style, he seems to be building a team able to attack from all angles. After watching some of the games you coached recently you had assembled a fantastic attack squad. We certainly had a more entertaining brand of footy under you.

I can see it too. Question Grant. Looking ahead about seven years, triple premiership coach Cuddles retires back to look after the 'troubled' youth of Rockingham or Peppermint Grove, whatever... Harves' decides not to 'pick himself', so you once again step down from your Board position and into the coach's box...

What key thing/s would you do differently?

Watching from the stands, for mine it was defence. Under you, I was always confident against weaker teams (obviously) and also against lower scoring teams (like the Swines... despite that Preliminary Final).

But teams that flooded a bit less heavily than them, hence did not have all their players tied up in their back 50, and were quick...
so often we'd dominate, they'd then start to flood, we'd kick it to them(!)
They'd bring it out, and we would not cover their loose men! Arrrrrrghhhh! So frustrating!

Stopping that rot was the one big game-changing improvement under Ro$$y IMHO.

(As mentioned by another poster, Aussie was a major culprit, as was Frankie Peckett... though neither were orphans on that count. I can't comment on their training, but onfield I thought that both were very lazy. Once a piece of play was done, they'd pretty much stand around c/f running to man up/fill a dangerous space/create an option... That said, I do reckon they improved on that under you.)

Was that your take also Grant? Did you feel that under you it was attack at the expense of being caught on the rebound? Or were you also trying to get across that message of blokes needing to also 'do stuff' when they don't have the ball? Really interested in your thoughts on this...

Hey Grant, (not trying to give you a hard time) just wondering if you feel like some of the early contracts (bally etc) you were a part of set an unsustainable precedence of paying top dollar for our stars?

Losing BJ was disappointing, but do you think the 'Geelong' model of pay structure is the way to go? Clearly we ran out of cap space in a drastic way of the past 4-5 years...

Do you like what Pelchan is upto list-wise?

Complete rot - with respect. Our cap was in saintsational order. Our players were not paid top dollar by any means. Speak to Cooky & Bomber and they will tell u they followed our model, on field and off.

That's really interesting to hear Grant... so we are now just working our way back to that more level distribution of player payments!?!

The 'Geelong' model was really, originally, the Saint's model !?!

I certainly believe that system went a long, long, long... way towards the Hillbilly's success. I base that both from external observation, and from knowing people (not the names you mentioned btw) who helped set that up for them... sadly my only contacts within any AFL club. Seems the Skunks and Skid Marks are aiming for at least a somewhat similar system...

(When I first heard from my friends down there how the Hillbilly's had structured, and what that meant in terms of the quality of their overall list, c/f say, our supposedly infamous 'bottom six'...
well knowing how influential Saintsational really is...
I started calling on here for our club to adopt similar...
provoked some initial 'raised eyebrows' too, but I've noticed that now virtually ever poster seems to agree...

No doubt that's why the Saints are now moving towards this...

Whoops, delusions of granduer kicking in... I need to take more of Dr Spaceman's green pills... they always do the trick. )

Back to the topic... so when and why did the pay scales at St Kilda change? Around the time those two new AFL love-children were spawned...?

What could have been, eh? Oh well, this sorta' thing seems to be our club's history... but only for just a little bit longer believe...

So Grant, what's your opinion on any of this, and on the current recruiting direction under the Pelican et al? Appreciated.

Is it just me or is all this all just a bit NQR?

No it's not just you Pav... clearly something a bit NQR...

this thread got well into page six before any posters started potting each other...

so many words...so little content....

[StThomo]

f*** me there is some serious sucking up in here
even by the people saying 'where are the GT haters now'

seriously people
its so plain to see who is sucking and some are a complete surprise

good lord
while its great to be asking questions and getting some really good responses to question we've always wondered
sucking up makes u like a complete dill
give it a rest for f*** sake



Thomo
no chance of ever going back to the club in some capacity?
would you like to?
or just happy being out of footy and the media

I will NEVER have ANY capacity again at St Kilda. Nor should I. I had my time and are very proud of what was achieved and beleive the legacy from our era is sustainable and holding us in good stead. Time for others.

[stinger]

f*** me there is some serious sucking up in here
even by the people saying 'where are the GT haters now'

seriously people
its so plain to see who is sucking and some are a complete surprise

good lord
while its great to be asking questions and getting some really good responses to question we've always wondered
sucking up makes u like a complete dill
give it a rest for f*** sake



Thomo
no chance of ever going back to the club in some capacity?
would you like to?
or just happy being out of footy and the media

I will NEVER have ANY capacity again at St Kilda. Nor should I. I had my time and are very proud of what was achieved and beleive the legacy from our era is sustainable and holding us in good stead. Time for others.

that's really sad, but i can see where you are coming from.....but i agree the club is now far better place than it was before you got involved.....i just hope that the current coach is the right guy to take us to the next step.......so far so good ....

[asiu]

with regards to the bigger picture
(where my support for you , fwtw ,
sourced from during your reign)

and whilst understanding its a bit of a 'dorothy dixer'
i would really like to know ,
considering 'hindsight' ,
what if anything you would now do or approach differently

[The Redeemer]

This new site is going to take a bit of getting used to. Hopefully all my old "mates" are around and we can pick up where we left off. Now that I have relinquished ALL of my media duties - thankfully - engaging with other (like) footy nuts on here and Twitter (@Thomo_Grant) will be great.

I seriously think I love you.

[saintsfreak]

No disrespect intended Grant, but I'd like to know why you were particularly harsh on the Saints in the media, often being one being one of our biggest critics.

No harsher than I was before, during or after. It won't change. Id like to understand what u mean by harsh and discuss some particular incidents?

I suppose the most recent examples would be your take on us losing Ross and Goddard.

[Spelly]

I will NEVER have ANY capacity again at St Kilda. Nor should I. I had my time and are very proud of what was achieved and beleive the legacy from our era is sustainable and holding us in good stead. Time for others.

am and believe

[saintsrox]

[quote="Spelly"][quote="StThomo"]
I will NEVER have ANY capacity again at St Kilda. Nor should I. I had my time and [b]are[/b] very proud of what was achieved and [b]beleive[/b] the legacy from our era is sustainable and holding us in good stead. Time for others.[/quote]

am and believe [/quote]
Is this THE SPELLY? Hi Spelly hope u r going great. All these nicknames are flooding back.

[StThomo]

with regards to the bigger picture
(where my support for you , fwtw ,
sourced from during your reign)

and whilst understanding its a bit of a 'dorothy dixer'
i would really like to know ,
considering 'hindsight' ,
what if anything you would now do or approach differently

Hahaha. Give me some time to think about that. Remind me in case I forget

[StThomo]

No disrespect intended Grant, but I'd like to know why you were particularly harsh on the Saints in the media, often being one being one of our biggest critics.

No harsher than I was before, during or after. It won't change. Id like to understand what u mean by harsh and discuss some particular incidents?

I suppose the most recent examples would be your take on us losing Ross and Goddard.

Caught up with Rossy & got his perspective. FWIW he is a career coach who sets incrediy high discipline standards & is manic in process. Great qualities but it has a use by date. I reckon 5 year stints is about right. I expect him to be in another state - probably Vic - in another 5 years. With BJ I don't think club wanted him enough. BJ was after tenure not just money. Another year he stays. U dont let great people walk out the door. Great clubs don't do that. We're not there yet.

[karnaby]

am and believe

[Dave McNamara]

so many words...so little content....

Reminiscent of Tony's policy speeches...

Good point though Sting... when saying nothing..., be brief, eh...?

Actually, there was plenty of content... for those who can read/can be bothered to read... and I thank Grant for being in the latter catagory, and for his subsequent comprehensive answers.

[saintsfreak]

I suppose the most recent examples would be your take on us losing Ross and Goddard.

Caught up with Rossy & got his perspective. FWIW he is a career coach who sets incrediy high discipline standards & is manic in process. Great qualities but it has a use by date. I reckon 5 year stints is about right. I expect him to be in another state - probably Vic - in another 5 years. With BJ I don't think club wanted him enough. BJ was after tenure not just money. Another year he stays. U dont let great people walk out the door. Great clubs don't do that. We're not there yet.

Personally I believe if Goddard really wanted to stay at St Kilda an extra year wouldn't have been the difference for him. When you see Joey (a player that would probably walk into any midfield in the comp) take a 2 year deal on apparently reduced pay, you have to wonder if the difference between the two is their desire to stay at the club.

[Enrico_Misso]

Still early days but I reckon in time this thread will be #2 behind the trivia thread.
(Unless of course the usual culprits get it hijacked and locked )

[gringo]

No harsher than I was before, during or after. It won't change. Id like to understand what u mean by harsh and discuss some particular incidents?

I suppose the most recent examples would be your take on us losing Ross and Goddard.[/quote]
Caught up with Rossy & got his perspective. FWIW he is a career coach who sets incrediy high discipline standards & is manic in process. Great qualities but it has a use by date. I reckon 5 year stints is about right. I expect him to be in another state - probably Vic - in another 5 years. With BJ I don't think club wanted him enough. BJ was after tenure not just money. Another year he stays. U dont let great people walk out the door. Great clubs don't do that. We're not there yet.[/quote]



In hind sight signing Aaron Hamill up to a long term contract didn't work out so your contract work probably screwed it for future list managers so probably a bit harsh. The Bombers have signed him long term and to a huge contract. They are setting a precedent that is hard to retract. It might work for them it might work against them. Jobe might want more next time round that pressures the whole list. I have it on pretty good authority that Goddard will be employed at Toll after he's finished footy too despite the denial.

It looks to me Watters is pissed off that Goddard didn't buy into his future vision and sign on despite all the external stuff. Coaches sell vision more than anything and one dropping off the train can make plenty of others hot footed.

[stinger]

I will NEVER have ANY capacity again at St Kilda. Nor should I. I had my time and are very proud of what was achieved and beleive the legacy from our era is sustainable and holding us in good stead. Time for others.

am and believe

oh spelly...you can still make me laugh....

[stinger]

With BJ I don't think club wanted him enough. BJ was after tenure not just money. Another year he stays. U dont let great people walk out the door. Great clubs don't do that. We're not there yet.

you are right there....unfortunately... ...i can't for the life of me work out why he wouldn't have been given 4 years......he would have been a 300 game saints player and a legend of the club.......sad....