Sam Fisher off field issues?

[The Fireman]

many posts yet no answers........strange isn't it.

[mickbag1959]

I'm sorry I asked the question now.

[Dave McNamara]

Looks like our residient crack, ice, coke, iced coke, opium, Tarzan's Grip, petrol, Sudafed, carbon monoxide, Seve, Tim Tams abuser is hanging tough pretty well so far going cold turkey. (Good thing you can't easily inject, smoke or inhale a cold turkey...)





Hidden away in true journalistic style correction:
The Seve abuser was not Sam Fisher... though it remains unclear that Sam Fisher was not in the country at the time said abuse occurred...

[stinger]

Closed mind, maybe. But if you don't take new evidence into account when thinking about an issue then that's not a closed mind, that's just kinda dumb.

your response kinda captures you in respect of your attitutude to what i have posted......yeah, my job took me to where you say....still does.... but the problem is far broader than you think....ever read the book...beyond blue.......might open your eyes and your mind.....

[stinger]

Looks like our residient crack, ice, coke, iced coke, opium, Tarzan's Grip, petrol, Sudafed, carbon monoxide, Seve, Tim Tams abuser is hanging tough pretty well so far going cold turkey. (Good thing you can't easily inject, smoke or inhale a cold turkey...)





Hidden away in true journalistic style correction:
The Seve abuser was not Sam Fisher... though it remains unclear that Sam Fisher was not in the country at the time said abuse occurred...

the guy behind chips looks none too happy....white isn't it...???

[defacto]

Looks like our residient crack, ice, coke, iced coke, opium, Tarzan's Grip, petrol, Sudafed, carbon monoxide, Seve, Tim Tams abuser is hanging tough pretty well so far going cold turkey. (Good thing you can't easily inject, smoke or inhale a cold turkey...)





Hidden away in true journalistic style correction:
The Seve abuser was not Sam Fisher... though it remains unclear that Sam Fisher was not in the country at the time said abuse occurred...

that post just shows how little you know

[Austinnn]

you have been lucky.......silly...but lucky all the same......i would never encourage or condone anybody engaging in criminal risky behaviour...but it's your life and i really only worry about family.....in other words ....i don't care what the bulk of society do or don't do..do i have a closed mind as one poster has suggested?...no....just 40 odd years experience in dealing with this issue in a number of capacities.....

I may have been lucky, or you may have been exposed to a particular subset of the population in your job. I know plenty of others in similar positions to me - mostly they've done plenty of drugs and also been very successful in their professional life. I know of only maybe one who seriously damaged himself, and he was always a loose cannon.

Closed mind, maybe. But if you don't take new evidence into account when thinking about an issue then that's not a closed mind, that's just kinda dumb.

That's the ticket. Well said. I would say closed mind; absolutely.

As long as this attitude is the mainstream, people will continue to use drugs anyway. They are just demonised and sidelined by society. Maybe some people should take a trip to places where drugs are decriminilised and compare the situations.

Anyway, I'm done now, as I said before, there's no point in discussing something with a person with a closed mind.

By the way, P66 I've never found you to be an angry poster, don't know where WW gets that from. Sarcastic perhaps, pedantic sure, but I like the way you roll, brother. Even if you're not always right. Luckily, usually you are.

[White Winmar]

Don't worry Stinger, rather than a closed mind, I think you have seen too much at close quarters. Having seen, first hand the damage drugs do, from a number of sides, I would suggest those who have consistently used drugs, are damaged in some way, be it physically, psychologically or socially. I'd love a dollar for every person I've dealt with in the street, the courts, or in private therapy who says, "it hasn't done me any harm." Most fail to see what is obvious to the objective observer. As the anti-smoking ads said, "every cigarette does you harm". The same applies to all drugs including alcohol. Taking any drug is a controlled form of poisoning. Saying it doesn't harm you is hubris of the worst kind, especially if you've used over a number of years. It may not effect you today, or tomorrow, but it will one day.

As for the legalisation topic, I'm really torn. I've been to several overseas conferences on the matter and I've witnessed things first hand from a law enforcement perspective and now from a therapeutic level. I've listened to the experts who are as divided as those on climate change. Some are for and some against. There doesn't seem to be a consensus, other than there never will be consensus!

Unfortunately, we are currently seeing the long term effects of smoking, and of course the government, in the face of overwhelming evidence, is making it almost illegal, with all the bans and restrictions in place. As one expert in the field told me, the problem with legalising drugs is that there will always be a market for something that is "better" than what's available. Coupled with the vast amount of money you can make, for relatively little effort, this proves an irresistible lure. Overseas experiments with legalisation have delivered mixed results, but most of these have involved marijuana. Most of the legally supplied narcotic trials have been small in scale and have concentrated largely on heavily addicted people. No country I know of has legalised the "harder" narcotics.

As with most things, education and targeted campaigns taking the allure from drugs are the answer, but that's going to take decades, much the same way anti drink driving and smoking strategies have. Simply demonising drugs isn't the answer either, as most only consider the pleasurable aspects of use and we are yet to feel the longitudinal force of sustained, illicit drug use on the general population. Wait another decade, and we will see. It won't be pretty. I can't recall who said it, but I'll not forget it, "think of your teenager heading out for the night and they ask you to lend them some money so they can pop down the shop to buy a bit of crystal meth."

Austinnn, I see a lot of people in my professional capacity who are generally functioning reasonably well, but have drug problems. I get to see a side of them they never show the outside world. They are not your stereotypical junkies, anything but. Most would be surprised to know of their suffering. Like most sufferers, they keep their problems secret, which I suppose is part of the overall problem. If you've dodged a bullet so far, then I'm glad. Unfortunately, I've seen too many who haven't been so fortunate.

[White Winmar]

Don't worry Stinger, rather than a closed mind, I think you have seen too much at close quarters. Having seen, first hand the damage drugs do, from a number of sides, I would suggest those who have consistently used drugs, are damaged in some way, be it physically, psychologically or socially. I'd love a dollar for every person I've dealt with in the street, the courts, or in private therapy who says, "it hasn't done me any harm." Most fail to see what is obvious to the objective observer. As the anti-smoking ads said, "every cigarette does you harm". The same applies to all drugs including alcohol. Taking any drug is a controlled form of poisoning. Saying it doesn't harm you is hubris of the worst kind, especially if you've used over a number of years. It may not effect you today, or tomorrow, but it will one day.

As for the legalisation topic, I'm really torn. I've been to several overseas conferences on the matter and I've witnessed things first hand from a law enforcement perspective and now from a therapeutic level. I've listened to the experts who are as divided as those on climate change. Some are for and some against. There doesn't seem to be a consensus, other than there never will be consensus!

Unfortunately, we are currently seeing the long term effects of smoking, and of course the government, in the face of overwhelming evidence, is making it almost illegal, with all the bans and restrictions in place. As one expert in the field told me, the problem with legalising drugs is that there will always be a market for something that is "better" than what's available. Coupled with the vast amount of money you can make, for relatively little effort, this proves an irresistible lure. Overseas experiments with legalisation have delivered mixed results, but most of these have involved marijuana. Most of the legally supplied narcotic trials have been small in scale and have concentrated largely on heavily addicted people. No country I know of has legalised the "harder" narcotics.

As with most things, education and targeted campaigns taking the allure from drugs are the answer, but that's going to take decades, much the same way anti drink driving and smoking strategies have. Simply demonising drugs isn't the answer either, as most only consider the pleasurable aspects of use and we are yet to feel the longitudinal force of sustained, illicit drug use on the general population. Wait another decade, and we will see. It won't be pretty. I can't recall who said it, but I'll not forget it, "think of your teenager heading out for the night and they ask you to lend them some money so they can pop down the shop to buy a bit of crystal meth."

Austinnn, I see a lot of people in my professional capacity who are generally functioning reasonably well, but have drug problems. I get to see a side of them they never show the outside world. They are not your stereotypical junkies, anything but. Most would be surprised to know of their suffering. Like most sufferers, they keep their problems secret, which I suppose is part of the overall problem. If you've dodged a bullet so far, then I'm glad. Unfortunately, I've seen too many who haven't been so fortunate.

[dragit]

I can't recall who said it, but I'll not forget it, "think of your teenager heading out for the night and they ask you to lend them some money so they can pop down the shop to buy a bit of crystal meth."

on par with an old piss-head asking for a dollar really.

[White Winmar]

I can't recall who said it, but I'll not forget it, "think of your teenager heading out for the night and they ask you to lend them some money so they can pop down the shop to buy a bit of crystal meth."

on par with an old piss-head asking for a dollar really.

Except it's your own kid.

[dragit]

I can't recall who said it, but I'll not forget it, "think of your teenager heading out for the night and they ask you to lend them some money so they can pop down the shop to buy a bit of crystal meth."

on par with an old piss-head asking for a dollar really.

Except it's your own kid.

True, every wino was someone's kid also... You can destroy your life easily if you want to.. Legally or illegally, people find a way. I wouldn't give my kids money to buy crystal meth, cigarettes or a bottle of scotch. Though I have seen plenty of people help fund their teenagers smoking... Go figure.

[joffaboy]

Apparently a favourite with some of the players

[Dave McNamara]

Looks like our residient crack, ice, coke, iced coke, opium, Tarzan's Grip, petrol, Sudafed, carbon monoxide, Seve, Tim Tams abuser is hanging tough pretty well so far going cold turkey. (Good thing you can't easily inject, smoke or inhale a cold turkey...)


Hidden away in true journalistic style correction:
The Seve abuser was not Sam Fisher... though it remains unclear that Sam Fisher was not in the country at the time said abuse occurred...

that post just shows how little you know

Well come on Defa', what have I missed... should it be iced vanilla coke, did I get the biscuit wrong, should that have been iced vovos...?

Please don't leave me hanging... fill me in on what next I need to add to the long list of stuff that I don't know...

[Austinnn]

Don't worry Stinger, rather than a closed mind, I think you have seen too much at close quarters. Having seen, first hand the damage drugs do, from a number of sides, I would suggest those who have consistently used drugs, are damaged in some way, be it physically, psychologically or socially. I'd love a dollar for every person I've dealt with in the street, the courts, or in private therapy who says, "it hasn't done me any harm." Most fail to see what is obvious to the objective observer. As the anti-smoking ads said, "every cigarette does you harm". The same applies to all drugs including alcohol. Taking any drug is a controlled form of poisoning. Saying it doesn't harm you is hubris of the worst kind, especially if you've used over a number of years. It may not effect you today, or tomorrow, but it will one day.

As for the legalisation topic, I'm really torn. I've been to several overseas conferences on the matter and I've witnessed things first hand from a law enforcement perspective and now from a therapeutic level. I've listened to the experts who are as divided as those on climate change. Some are for and some against. There doesn't seem to be a consensus, other than there never will be consensus!

Unfortunately, we are currently seeing the long term effects of smoking, and of course the government, in the face of overwhelming evidence, is making it almost illegal, with all the bans and restrictions in place. As one expert in the field told me, the problem with legalising drugs is that there will always be a market for something that is "better" than what's available. Coupled with the vast amount of money you can make, for relatively little effort, this proves an irresistible lure. Overseas experiments with legalisation have delivered mixed results, but most of these have involved marijuana. Most of the legally supplied narcotic trials have been small in scale and have concentrated largely on heavily addicted people. No country I know of has legalised the "harder" narcotics.

As with most things, education and targeted campaigns taking the allure from drugs are the answer, but that's going to take decades, much the same way anti drink driving and smoking strategies have. Simply demonising drugs isn't the answer either, as most only consider the pleasurable aspects of use and we are yet to feel the longitudinal force of sustained, illicit drug use on the general population. Wait another decade, and we will see. It won't be pretty. I can't recall who said it, but I'll not forget it, "think of your teenager heading out for the night and they ask you to lend them some money so they can pop down the shop to buy a bit of crystal meth."

Austinnn, I see a lot of people in my professional capacity who are generally functioning reasonably well, but have drug problems. I get to see a side of them they never show the outside world. They are not your stereotypical junkies, anything but. Most would be surprised to know of their suffering. Like most sufferers, they keep their problems secret, which I suppose is part of the overall problem. If you've dodged a bullet so far, then I'm glad. Unfortunately, I've seen too many who haven't been so fortunate.

Nice response WW, and thank you for discussing the issue in a balanced and mature way.

Only a brave idiot would claim that taking drugs does no harm and sadly people, including us, will always be attracted to things that hurt us bit by bit. Take smoking; Australia's anti-smoking laws have recently been described as "the most draconian in the world". Gruesome pictures of smoking related deformities, very little branding, the banning of smoking in public enclosures and of course the outrageous taxes should be enough of an incentive to stop people from ever touching cigarettes. People still pay loads to puff away, knowing full well they are killing themselves slowly.

Over consumption of sugary drinks and fast food are the key reason why Australia's obesity rate is one the highest worldwide, obesity causing a whole raft of health problems that can get very serious if not fatal for the consumer, as well as over-burdening the health services, and by extention the taxpayer.

Gambling, a vice that our own club vigoursly supports and encourages, destroys lives and breaks up families every day. How many lives are destroyed by driving a bit too fast in your car, or being careless on the road? Will people stop speeding? s*** man, you can't even get people to stop texting while they drive!

I could go on. We are all killing ourselves in small doses, some in big doses. Some things are so bad that society wants the choice to be unavailable, other things we trust the individual to make that call.

I made a conscious decision to stop taking some drugs as I thought they were doing me harm. I haven't drunk since I was 19, haven't eaten McDonalds, KFC, etc in about 15 years, never smoked a cigarette (although have smoked tobacco in some bad spliffs), put a total of $20 in poker machines in my 40 years, and am about the closest thing you'll get to a monk outside a monastery. My biggest vice is football. I still use other drugs when I can, which isn't much. It's different shades of illegal in most places I've partaken, and I did it regularly in Tokyo, which would have had extremely serious consequences if I'd got caught, but I ain't no outlaw or hard man, not doing it to be a rebel. I made those choices for myself, didn't need help. I understand that not everyone is as fantastic and brilliant as me

Far from 'dodging a bullet', I've had plenty of contact with many people who've screwed their lives up with drugs, including fatal ODs, in my (previous) professional and personal life. Seen loads of recreational users who've underachieved on account of their regular dope intake. Also seen literally hundreds of cases of people first hand who have screwed up their lives with alcohol, gambling, and other socially acceptable vices. One of my immediate family has totally destroyed their life through alcohol abuse, popping down to the pub every day to get their fix. All sanctioned by society. Meanwhile if I smoke one spiff in the street, I've got to look over my shoulder for cops or fruitcakes who think that all drugs are bad and want to report me to the authorities.

I'm sorry to repeat myself but banning things outright will not stop people using them, what it will do is make the number of users decrease but make the support for them also decrease, thereby driving up the global user:problem user ratio.

But if you want to protect the rest of society, and you can afford to throw away the lives of the illicit drug user, then go ahead and keep things the way they are. There are good aspects to this way, just means sacrificing a few people, but maybe those people were goners anyway.

Conclusion; if you say that ALL drugs are bad, and ALL users are idiots, then please include ALL drinkers, ALL smokers, ALL gamblers, ALL drivers, ALL fast-food consumers, ALL football fans, ALL people who watch TV, and everyone else.

[Yaysaints]

All football fans ????

[dragit]

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/danci ... 2ar04.html

"The results were published in the medical journal The Lancet and have been reported worldwide. Alcohol was found to be most harmful to society and fifth most harmful to users, making it the most harmful drug overall. Ecstasy, on the other hand, causes almost no harm to society and scored very low on the harm done to the user, coming in at 17th overall. Cannabis (legalised in two US states last month) came in eighth."

[stinger]

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/danci ... 2ar04.html

"The results were published in the medical journal The Lancet and have been reported worldwide. Alcohol was found to be most harmful to society and fifth most harmful to users, making it the most harmful drug overall. Ecstasy, on the other hand, causes almost no harm to society and scored very low on the harm done to the user, coming in at 17th overall. Cannabis (legalised in two US states last month) came in eighth."

i'm no fan of alcohol either....

[dragit]

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/danci ... 2ar04.html

"The results were published in the medical journal The Lancet and have been reported worldwide. Alcohol was found to be most harmful to society and fifth most harmful to users, making it the most harmful drug overall. Ecstasy, on the other hand, causes almost no harm to society and scored very low on the harm done to the user, coming in at 17th overall. Cannabis (legalised in two US states last month) came in eighth."

i'm no fan of alcohol either....

Should it be illegal too?
Do you have the occasional drink?

[Richter]

All the illegality of drugs does is ensure a big revenue stream for organised crime.

True, but looking at 'too big to fail' banks, post-GFC bailouts, city bonuses etc. indicates to me that corporations are the biggest scam artists of all.

If the drugs were decriminalised it would lessen the burden on our legal system dramatically

I don't think so. The majority of people who are using drugs and who end up in the legal system are not there because of their drug use per se, rather it is because of violence perpetrated when they are intoxicated.

take away massive funding for organised crime and permit harm minimisation strategies to be put in place.

The best 'harm minimisation' strategy of all is prevention or minimisation of use in the first place. Decriminalisation would surely lead to greater use. Greater use will lead to greater harm through illness to users and injury to victims of drug-fuelled violence.

From a philosophical point of view, it's my body, why shouldn't I be free to put into it whtever I wish? My body is my property surely.......

Yes, I agree with that, but as humans we are not islands unto ourselves... drug use is associated with increased levels of impulsive violence, which of course is borne by those around the user.

--------------------------

Btw, everything I have said above is largely also true of alcohol. Personally I would also support a raising of the legal drinking age to 21 as it is in the US.

[plugger66]

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/danci ... 2ar04.html

"The results were published in the medical journal The Lancet and have been reported worldwide. Alcohol was found to be most harmful to society and fifth most harmful to users, making it the most harmful drug overall. Ecstasy, on the other hand, causes almost no harm to society and scored very low on the harm done to the user, coming in at 17th overall. Cannabis (legalised in two US states last month) came in eighth."

i'm no fan of alcohol either....

Should it be illegal too?
Do you have the occasional drink?

He hasnt got anyone to drink with.

[Bernard Shakey]

i'm no fan of alcohol either....

Should it be illegal too?
Do you have the occasional drink?

He hasnt got anyone to drink with.

A George Thorogood fan maybe?

[paddy]

The best 'harm minimisation' strategy of all is prevention or minimisation of use in the first place. Decriminalisation would surely lead to greater use. Greater use will lead to greater harm through illness to users and injury to victims of drug-fuelled violence.

Can't say i know too many people who get violent on Ecstasy.... annoying? sure, but far from violent...

Granted Ice etc. are a different kettle of fish

[stinger]

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/danci ... 2ar04.html

. Ecstasy, on the other hand, causes almost no harm to society and scored very low on the harm done to the user, coming in at 17th overall. Cannabis (legalised in two US states last month) came in eighth."[/i]

well, i'm sure that the parents of a 20 year old who i know... who took an ecstasy tablet in a night club and then died in the back of an ambo will be pleased to hear that...as will the wife of a guy killed in a head on on his way home at 3am from another nightclub who took a couple of eccies brought for him by his said wife so he wouldn't drink too much alcohol......not sure about his two young ones though.....

[dragit]

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/danci ... 2ar04.html

. Ecstasy, on the other hand, causes almost no harm to society and scored very low on the harm done to the user, coming in at 17th overall. Cannabis (legalised in two US states last month) came in eighth."[/i]

well, i'm sure that the parents of a 20 year old who i know... who took an ecstasy tablet in a night club and then died in the back of an ambo will be pleased to hear that...as will the wife of a guy killed in a head on on his way home at 3am from another nightclub who took a couple of eccies brought for him by his said wife so he wouldn't drink too much alcohol......not sure about his two young ones though.....

You're a very emotional person stinger, would hate for you to be the judge if I was accused of something…

Should cars be banned too because people misuse them and people die as a result?