Where is our future tall back?

[8856brother]

They did have a fair crack at Mitch Brown to be fair. Maybe they don't see anyone out there worth taking for a year. Don't think it will cost us a flag this year. We will be in a good position next year to go out strongly and poach a Frawley or Brown type.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

They did have a fair crack at Mitch Brown to be fair. Maybe they don't see anyone out there worth taking for a year. Don't think it will cost us a flag this year. We will be in a good position next year to go out strongly and poach a Frawley or Brown type.

exactly ... realistically speacking we are not any chance at the flag next year , i can see Watters and co. pushing players through the team to develop them for the stint at the falg in 3- 5 years time (this i feel is the major reason we were not too fussed to lose Goddard and also why Goddard decided to leave) in all honesty i can see us rotating a few people through the fullback role to see if we can uncover a gem and if not going hard for a quallity one in the next trade/FA period ...

[loris]

Not that impressed that we enter a second season without one.

I realise this is a development phase, but wouldn't it do well for kids to develop in a side that is properly structured?

Can't get my head around this one.

Two of the best fullbacks we've ever had came to us as forwards, and one won a Brownlow at fullback. Anyone heard of Verdun Howell or Bob Murray?

Showing your age there Bernard

What was that saying.............. 'those who disregard history are doomed to failure'.............. glad our recruiters are history buffs eh?

Coz...... there is another cliche/saying........... 'history will repeat itself'.


Good sign then eh Bernard, the last time those two forwards, cum fullbacks played together......... the Saints won the 'grannie'

[SainterK]

They did have a fair crack at Mitch Brown to be fair. Maybe they don't see anyone out there worth taking for a year. Don't think it will cost us a flag this year. We will be in a good position next year to go out strongly and poach a Frawley or Brown type.

exactly ... realistically speacking we are not any chance at the flag next year , i can see Watters and co. pushing players through the team to develop them for the stint at the falg in 3- 5 years time (this i feel is the major reason we were not too fussed to lose Goddard and also why Goddard decided to leave) in all honesty i can see us rotating a few people through the fullback role to see if we can uncover a gem and if not going hard for a quallity one in the next trade/FA period ...

Ok...

Well they've got to stop saying through the year that it's a defiency then, or use it as any excuse...if they are not even prepared to fix it.

[spert]

Thank God tall strong full backs grow on trees.

[sunsaint]

I simply cannot believe that the AFL Draft order wasn't rigged in our favour nor that all that available talent wasn't EXACTLY what we needed.

I'm devastated.

I'm going to tear up my membership.

I mean what's Westaway doing!???

did you take up the clubs' offer to go to the draft? It was just up the road from you

[Dr Spaceman]

Thank God tall strong full backs grow on trees.

Tayte Pears grew on a tree however most people don't rate him

[magnifisaint]

Thank God tall strong full backs grow on trees.

Obviously the water is polluted out Seaford way

[borderbarry]

We recruited Nathan Wright, he is a defender, and Scott Watters thinks he is tall.

[tweedaletomanning]

They did have a fair crack at Mitch Brown to be fair. Maybe they don't see anyone out there worth taking for a year. Don't think it will cost us a flag this year. We will be in a good position next year to go out strongly and poach a Frawley or Brown type.

exactly ... realistically speacking we are not any chance at the flag next year , i can see Watters and co. pushing players through the team to develop them for the stint at the falg in 3- 5 years time (this i feel is the major reason we were not too fussed to lose Goddard and also why Goddard decided to leave) in all honesty i can see us rotating a few people through the fullback role to see if we can uncover a gem and if not going hard for a quallity one in the next trade/FA period ...

Agree. makes no difference to us for next year.

Window not open for another few years at least.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

They did have a fair crack at Mitch Brown to be fair. Maybe they don't see anyone out there worth taking for a year. Don't think it will cost us a flag this year. We will be in a good position next year to go out strongly and poach a Frawley or Brown type.

exactly ... realistically speacking we are not any chance at the flag next year , i can see Watters and co. pushing players through the team to develop them for the stint at the falg in 3- 5 years time (this i feel is the major reason we were not too fussed to lose Goddard and also why Goddard decided to leave) in all honesty i can see us rotating a few people through the fullback role to see if we can uncover a gem and if not going hard for a quallity one in the next trade/FA period ...

Ok...

Well they've got to stop saying through the year that it's a defiency then, or use it as any excuse...if they are not even prepared to fix it.

why do we have to stop ? we know its the weakness we have and we are without a doubt going to look at fixing the problem but as they say rome wasnt built in a day its going to take time , as fans we look at highlight reels of the prospective draft picks and make choices on who we think are going to be stars the guys employed by the club are looking at kids who are 15 and 16 and following their progress .. the reason we didnt draft a big defender may infact be because there is a better option available for us next year and given we are not in "flag mode" we have the somewhat luxury of being able to wait a year or two to get exactly what we are looking for .... i understand people will see it as we neglected to fix the hole infront of us but in the big picture the defender whole is nothing compaired to the hole we will have when Roo , Lenny and to an extent Kosi hang up the boots .. the rebuild process is going to take 3-5 years so its not a vital importance if we dont get all the ducks in a row in year one of the rebuild

[sunsaint]

They did have a fair crack at Mitch Brown to be fair. Maybe they don't see anyone out there worth taking for a year. Don't think it will cost us a flag this year. We will be in a good position next year to go out strongly and poach a Frawley or Brown type.

exactly ... realistically speacking we are not any chance at the flag next year , i can see Watters and co. pushing players through the team to develop them for the stint at the falg in 3- 5 years time (this i feel is the major reason we were not too fussed to lose Goddard and also why Goddard decided to leave) in all honesty i can see us rotating a few people through the fullback role to see if we can uncover a gem and if not going hard for a quallity one in the next trade/FA period ...

Agree. makes no difference to us for next year.

Window not open for another few years at least.

but what you both are not comprehending is that it TAKES 2-3 years to develop a key position player - minimum
two years without a full back...
two more years development...
couldnt attract any big name trades to the saints over the last two years...
will lose Blake this year...
its a big hole down back...

[Dr Spaceman]

All this talk about no full back, whilst understandable, is detracting from the fact we have assembled some pretty exciting young talent over the last couple of years.

Sure they may all turn out to be duds, but there's a real buzz about the kids, and a few in particular. I for one will be really keen to see how Sandy goes in 2013 and who really impresses there.

As for the full back position in 2013 it's anyone's guess. Maybe the bloke to fill that position is still to join the club. But if that's not the case then I don't think any one player currently on the list will play the position for the entire season. Full Forwards these days come in all shapes and sizes and it will probably come down to the weekly match ups. Who knows, we may even see Stanley line up on Buddy when we play the Hawks.

Anyway back to my original point. I'm really excited by the young kids in our squad and I intend to enjoy watching their development next year, regardless of the KPD situation in the seniors.

[sunsaint]

All this talk about no full back, whilst understandable, is detracting from the fact we have assembled some pretty exciting young talent over the last couple of years.

<snip>
Anyway back to my original point. I'm really excited by the young kids in our squad and I intend to enjoy watching their development next year, regardless of the KPD situation in the seniors.

for you own sanity, you should only watch one half of the ground each quarter

[st_Trav_ofWA]

but what you both are not comprehending is that it TAKES 2-3 years to develop a key position player - minimum
two years without a full back...
two more years development...
couldnt attract any big name trades to the saints over the last two years...
will lose Blake this year...
its a big hole down back...

thats if we are to develop one ourselves ... look at the kids GWS and GC have taken in the last few years by next year or the year after they would have developed their kids and it would be time for us to pounce to get them to come to us .. we will have the cash spare to buy one ready made and in the right age bracket , not to mention the chance one of our tall forwards could be turned into a defender or on another point we get a Brown or Frawley next year .. the reason we haven been able to attract big name trades is because we have not had the spare $ to do it .. with Goddard gone , Roo on a year to year contract Kosi morethan likey gone Gram gone Shnieds Milne and lenny on the smaller end of carreer wages we will be much better placed to attract and land a big name trade

[Saintersss]

Sure they may all turn out to be duds, but there's a real buzz about the kids, and a few in particular. I for one will be really keen to see how Sandy goes in 2013 and who really impresses there.

.

There is the same buzz after the draft every year, this year is no different. I remember after the 2008 draft the forum on here was ecstatic. How did we pick up Heyne so low??? Smith the new Montagna?? Lynch the third forward we've been crying out for?? Now, only one player remains from that draft.

The fact is, everyone is happy at this time of year. Everyone has drafted guns and the new generation.

This is not an excuse for not drafting a FB, a position that we have been crying out for the past 2 years.

[plugger66]

Most on here didnt rate Zac and most on here said he would have struggled this season the way we played. Under RL Zac didnt struggle often at all due to way we played. It is possible that a guy like Simpkin could do as well as Zac at FB if we slightly change our game style to be a little more defensive. If we continue to be nearly all out attack I dont think it would matter if we had the best FB down there. I think they would struggle too. A slight shift in game style could help us without picking up a proven FB.

[Dr Spaceman]

Sure they may all turn out to be duds, but there's a real buzz about the kids, and a few in particular. I for one will be really keen to see how Sandy goes in 2013 and who really impresses there.

.

There is the same buzz after the draft every year, this year is no different. I remember after the 2008 draft the forum on here was ecstatic. How did we pick up Heyne so low??? Smith the new Montagna?? Lynch the third forward we've been crying out for?? Now, only one player remains from that draft.

The fact is, everyone is happy at this time of year. Everyone has drafted guns and the new generation. 

This is not an excuse for not drafting a FB, a position that we have been crying out for the past 2 years.

You've quoted me however have missed, or ignored, the point I was making.

Firstly, the fact we seem to have picked up some exciting young talent through the trade & draft periods is not an excuse for not picking up a FB. Never said it was.

Secondly, I conceded that the young talent we have got could all turn out to be duds. Of course were all excited at this time of the year about our new arrivals. But I'm excited about them in conjunction with last year's additions and the improvement in guys like Stanley.

We tried to get a FB; went hard for Mitch Brown. Maybe picks 12 & 13 would've got the deal done. We could've then ticked that off, but of course would've missed out on some of the young talent we've acquired. Unlike some of the previous recruits you've mentioned we know Hickey can and will play seniors. And Lee will at least be given the chance at some stage. I believe there's genuine cause for optimism.

And what if we had've got Brown? Would he have stayed on the park and played consistently? Would he have been a good, serviceable FB rather than a great full back? Would he have beaten his opponents on most occasions but still had those games when the elite FFs managed to kick a bag of 5 or 6 on him? And if that's the case, how are we any better off than we currently are? It's not like we get bags kicked against us each week. It just becomes a big issue when a Hawkins, Franklin, Riewoldt etc has a day out.

The main point is that we need a FB and we haven't got one so far during the trade & draft. But regardless of how many threads are started, and how many comments are posted, I'll wake up tomorrow and we still won't have one. So to me it's pointless worrying about it.

And therefore I'll concentrate on what we have gained, and if they all turn out to be Lynchs, Heynes & Smiths then so be it.

[saint6709]

You've quoted me however have missed, or ignored, the point I was making.

Firstly, the fact we seem to have picked up some exciting young talent through the trade & draft periods is not an excuse for not picking up a FB. Never said it was.

Secondly, I conceded that the young talent we have got could all turn out to be duds. Of course were all excited at this time of the year about our new arrivals. But I'm excited about them in conjunction with last year's additions and the improvement in guys like Stanley.

We tried to get a FB; went hard for Mitch Brown. Maybe picks 12 & 13 would've got the deal done. We could've then ticked that off, but of course would've missed out on some of the young talent we've acquired. Unlike some of the previous recruits you've mentioned we know Hickey can and will play seniors. And Lee will at least be given the chance at some stage. I believe there's genuine cause for optimism.

And what if we had've got Brown? Would he have stayed on the park and played consistently? Would he have been a good, serviceable FB rather than a great full back? Would he have beaten his opponents on most occasions but still had those games when the elite FFs managed to kick a bag of 5 or 6 on him? And if that's the case, how are we any better off than we currently are? It's not like we get bags kicked against us each week. It just becomes a big issue when a Hawkins, Franklin, Riewoldt etc has a day out.

The main point is that we need a FB and we haven't got one so far during the trade & draft. But regardless of how many threads are started, and how many comments are posted, I'll wake up tomorrow and we still won't have one. So to me it's pointless worrying about it.

And therefore I'll concentrate on what we have gained, and if they all turn out to be Lynchs, Heynes & Smiths then so be it.

I agree with this and as I am always the optimist when it comes to the saints - i think we will see massive improvement next year - I do not buy into the window of opportunity for the flag is shut for the next few years

With that in mind I want to get tough and remain active in whats left of this years chances to get players into the team - guys who are there for "helping with the young kids and back up " need to be seriously looked at - how many of them do we need??? Lets get a mature age back and have a go - roberton could probably come in as well......Why keep a guy on the list for 'helping out round the club" when we can get in a mature key back and have a crack at the finals - I still think the team will be very very good next year if we can address that 1 shortcoming of a key back

[plugger66]

You've quoted me however have missed, or ignored, the point I was making.

Firstly, the fact we seem to have picked up some exciting young talent through the trade & draft periods is not an excuse for not picking up a FB. Never said it was.

Secondly, I conceded that the young talent we have got could all turn out to be duds. Of course were all excited at this time of the year about our new arrivals. But I'm excited about them in conjunction with last year's additions and the improvement in guys like Stanley.

We tried to get a FB; went hard for Mitch Brown. Maybe picks 12 & 13 would've got the deal done. We could've then ticked that off, but of course would've missed out on some of the young talent we've acquired. Unlike some of the previous recruits you've mentioned we know Hickey can and will play seniors. And Lee will at least be given the chance at some stage. I believe there's genuine cause for optimism.

And what if we had've got Brown? Would he have stayed on the park and played consistently? Would he have been a good, serviceable FB rather than a great full back? Would he have beaten his opponents on most occasions but still had those games when the elite FFs managed to kick a bag of 5 or 6 on him? And if that's the case, how are we any better off than we currently are? It's not like we get bags kicked against us each week. It just becomes a big issue when a Hawkins, Franklin, Riewoldt etc has a day out.

The main point is that we need a FB and we haven't got one so far during the trade & draft. But regardless of how many threads are started, and how many comments are posted, I'll wake up tomorrow and we still won't have one. So to me it's pointless worrying about it.

And therefore I'll concentrate on what we have gained, and if they all turn out to be Lynchs, Heynes & Smiths then so be it.

I agree with this and as I am always the optimist when it comes to the saints - i think we will see massive improvement next year - I do not buy into the window of opportunity for the flag is shut for the next few years

With that in mind I want to get tough and remain active in whats left of this years chances to get players into the team - guys who are there for "helping with the young kids and back up " need to be seriously looked at - how many of them do we need??? Lets get a mature age back and have a go - roberton could probably come in as well......Why keep a guy on the list for 'helping out round the club" when we can get in a mature key back and have a crack at the finals - I still think the team will be very very good next year if we can address that 1 shortcoming of a key back

If we get a key back it is likely they havent been good enough previously or werent rated by 18 clubs previously. Why get rid of a promising kid or even a CJ type to bring in someone who hasnt been good enough before. And as for Robertson, no thanks. That would mean 2 more delistings. I hope we dont do that. Already 8 changes this year.

[saint6709]

Would like not to loose a kid - I am talking about the guys - who have been great for the club - but who now need to step aside - 8 changes is not many - swans the premiers have had more and no one has walked out or been arrested from their list

[plugger66]

Would like not to loose a kid - I am talking about the guys - who have been great for the club - but who now need to step aside - 8 changes is not many - swans the premiers have had more and no one has walked out or been arrested from their list

So who would you get rid of in the next 2 weeks? You obviously want at least 2 changes. Remember there are such things as contracts and also morale around the place.

[saint6709]

I would look at blake,cj and kos - I would offer blake the same money to work a coaching role - or promise it to him in the future - if wanted to captain coach an ammo team or the like.....possibly shenton or staley if we were to loose a young bloke...and of course Winmar would be considered - was he somehow injured for the time trial ?

and yes contracts and morale need to be considered - but pelchen etc have said they will assess the list this week - so I am sure there are grown up and sensible ways in which the list can be adjusted - and while no one wants to be told they are no longer required - every player knows that their career will come to an end at some point

[Dave McNamara]

Sure they may all turn out to be duds, but there's a real buzz about the kids, and a few in particular. I for one will be really keen to see how Sandy goes in 2013 and who really impresses there.

There is the same buzz after the draft every year, this year is no different. I remember after the 2008 draft the forum on here was ecstatic. How did we pick up Heyne so low??? Smith the new Montagna?? Lynch the third forward we've been crying out for?? Now, only one player remains from that draft.

The fact is, everyone is happy at this time of year. Everyone has drafted guns and the new generation. 

This is not an excuse for not drafting a FB, a position that we have been crying out for the past 2 years.

Secondly, I conceded that the young talent we have got could all turn out to be duds. Of course were all excited at this time of the year about our new arrivals. But I'm excited about them in conjunction with last year's additions and the improvement in guys like Stanley...

...Unlike some of the previous recruits you've mentioned we know Hickey can and will play seniors. And Lee will at least be given the chance at some stage. I believe there's genuine cause for optimism...

And what if we had've got Brown? Would he have stayed on the park and played consistently? Would he have been a good, serviceable FB rather than a great full back? Would he have beaten his opponents on most occasions but still had those games when the elite FFs managed to kick a bag of 5 or 6 on him...?

...And therefore I'll concentrate on what we have gained, and if they all turn out to be Lynchs, Heynes & Smiths then so be it.

Hi Saintersss, I hear your concerns, however I'm taking the good Doctor's optimistic assessment (as well as his red pills ).

Forwards:
The big blokes we've recruited look very exciting. Waa-ay more potential than the last lot we got when we tried to load up on key forwards. I'm confident that the transition from Roo and Kosi will be smooth. (Hey, I'd argue that the Kosi part of that transition has already happened. And don't forget that we beat Carlscum with Wilksey and Rhys as our key forwards.)
We also have the annoying and infuriatingly hard to swat mosquitoes to buzz around the spillages created.



Mids:
We've now got plenty of blokes with the potential to also smooth the transition (from Lenny, Dal, Monty and pinch hitting from BJ).

Ruck:
Stocks looking good IMHO. Rhys and Hickey are tall, mobile and can play forward. We now have a long term project ruckman - 18 years old, 203cm... and still(!) growing it seems. We also have plenty of tall key position forwards who can pinch hit in the ruck.

As for the Owl...
Does anyone know if he really can not jump??? What's he like at training?
I ask this coz my observation of his centre boounce ruck work is that his issue seems to be more to do with worrying too much about the other bloke and hence not getting his own timing right as to when to jump. He also seems to go better when just trying to smash it forward, as when he tries to palm it down the throat of our mids, admirable though that is, it seems to me that concentrating on this distracts him from actually getting first hand to the ball...?
What have others on here noticed re all this...?
My other point re Owl is that even if other blokes can jump higher, I'm not so sure that the new rules will actually hurt him at round the ground contests, especially later in games? First bloke to the ball-up/throw-in will get to occupy prime position, and these new rule changes will now make it much harder for a stronger bloke to wrestle to the front. I've noticed that Owl tends to win more taps as the game goes on and his elite endurance comes to the fore.
So the rucking new rules may well actually prove to be a surprise bonus to Ben.

Key defence: As the Doc and others pointed out, will be interesting to see how the likes of Simpkin, Ferg and Lever(?) may develop next year. If not, I see our salary cap space and the liberation of the Chip as the long term solution. I do agree with some of the skeptics on here re Brown. Certainly not for anything like $500K!!! That money is best saved for securing Chip next preseason trading period...

BTW, I reckon that the Smith play was very, very worth it. High pick (50-something?) so low risk, for a bloke who's ability would be worthy of a top 5 draft pick...?
If any such similar opportunity comes up again... go for it Saintas... oh wait... Garlett..., for a rookie slot...? Go for it Saintas!

NB: Sure, much of these assessments rely on the fulfilling of 'potential'... but that applies with any player at any club...

Summary:
Considering our aging list which was not turned over much due to a long period of sustained success, a very tight salary cap and (sadly) several years of poor recruiting outcomes...
in just two trade/draft periods...
key back is pretty much the only remaining hole..., and I'm confident that'll be fixed next year.

Now that's pretty damn good! Those Taliban guys sure know a thing or two about list management!

The game plan is very 'watchable', we have some 'exciting' recruits... the future is looking rosy!

[plugger66]

I would look at blake,cj and kos - I would offer blake the same money to work a coaching role - or promise it to him in the future - if wanted to captain coach an ammo team or the like.....possibly shenton or staley if we were to loose a young bloke...and of course Winmar would be considered - was he somehow injured for the time trial ?

and yes contracts and morale need to be considered - but pelchen etc have said they will assess the list this week - so I am sure there are grown up and sensible ways in which the list can be adjusted - and while no one wants to be told they are no longer required - every player knows that their career will come to an end at some point

Well I reckon you might get your wish with Nick. Hope i am wrong though. Unlike some here I still hope he can make it and also unlike some here I dont think there are many FB available otherwise we would have got one by now.