Free Agency For Delisted Players

[plugger66]

Big Bad Bustling did alright for hisself.

Funny I thought Hall could play before he left us. As could the Wakelins who are also mentioned. Who are the young guys who once they left us in those years who really improved because of us being a poor club back then.

Joel Smith? Matthew Lappin?

Joel Smith left when we were succesful as did Lappin.

[plugger66]

You've answered your own question melbourne is a bottom club - thats not the players fault (although they are the ones blamed on match day) - there is opportunity to return good young players back toward their potential after being de railed by getting drafted into a poor club

Who were those players taken from us in 2000 and 2001 who shone once they let us?

Simon Buckley was delisted by Melbourne after finishing bottom in 2009. Was a handy pickup for the Pies.

Beau Wilkes was delisted after the Eagles finished bottom in 2010.

I know it doesn't answer your question, but 2009 and 2010 are more relevant than 2000.

Buckley is now delisted by the pies and Wilkes hasnt made it all all. You are right about how footy has changed but I still say guys who are no good at one club dont improve because they can train with Rooy or Lenny. I will give you the tip if they trained with them Id still be a hack

[CURLY]

Buckley is now delisted by the pies and Wilkes hasnt made it all all. You are right about how footy has changed but I still say guys who are no good at one club dont improve because they can train with Rooy or Lenny. I will give you the tip if they trained with them Id still be a hack

Thats not true at all. Well the bit about you being a hack excluded. Training with better players and in a better team of course you improve.

[plugger66]

Buckley is now delisted by the pies and Wilkes hasnt made it all all. You are right about how footy has changed but I still say guys who are no good at one club dont improve because they can train with Rooy or Lenny. I will give you the tip if they trained with them Id still be a hack

Thats not true at all. Well the bit about you being a hack excluded. Training with better players and in a better team of course you improve.

Why? If you arent up to it then it will make no difference. If your attitude is no good it will make no difference. if you are to slow or to short it will make no difference.

[stinger]

Thats not true at all. Well the bit about you being a hack excluded.

...never a truer word....

[St.Rob8]

Who were those players taken from us in 2000 and 2001 who shone once they let us?

Funny I thought Hall could play before he left us. As could the Wakelins who are also mentioned. Who are the young guys who once they left us in those years who really improved because of us being a poor club back then.

There you go. Shazza Wakelin! Left the club for nothing after being delisted in 2000. Went on to play 158 games at the Pies and be a 250 game player. Easy to say "Oh yeah, but he was good when he left us." Mate, as far as the Saints were concerned in 2000, he had about as much future in the game as Brett Peake does today. Nobody traded for him, and Pies threwhim a lifeline at pick 44. Hardly in demand. It's easy with 20/20 vision. If I recall there were some people howling about Dawson when he was recruited as Full Back. Not so funny now. Pretty daft to say shunned players at crap clubs are a waste of space. Depends on the individual player and situation. Milney droped from Essendon reserves!

[plugger66]

Who were those players taken from us in 2000 and 2001 who shone once they let us?

Big Bad Bustling did alright for hisself.

Funny I thought Hall could play before he left us. As could the Wakelins who are also mentioned. Who are the young guys who once they left us in those years who really improved because of us being a poor club back then.

There you go. Shazza Wakelin! Left the club for nothing after being delisted in 2000. Went on to play 158 games at the Pies and be a 250 game player. Easy to say "Oh yeah, but he was good when he left us." Mate, as far as the Saints were concerned in 2000, he had about as much future in the game as Brett Peake does today. Nobody traded for him, and Pies threwhim a lifeline at pick 44. Hardly in demand. It's easy with 20/20 vision. If I recall there were some people howling about Dawson when he was recruited as Full Back. Not so funny now. Pretty daft to say shunned players at crap clubs are a waste of space. Depends on the individual player and situation. Milney droped from Essendon reserves![/quote]


How can you compare Cook to Wakelin. Wakelin was a good player for us but was let go because of one reason only and that was injury. Funny how we rewrite history. if people want to continue to suggest we get all these players from other clubs then fine but dont complain when we delist a player who you think may end up being able to play or when we only have 2 picks in the draft because Im afrain you cant have it both ways.

We have plenty of recruiters now so lets see if they have skills. And i dont care that players come from bottom clubs but this guy wasnt lett go on a whim. I suggest they have plenty of evidence to get rid of pick 12 after 2 years.

[St.Rob8]

Ohh. I wasn't arguing for Cook. I don't know who TF he is. My point is sometimes players get let go and turn it around at new clubs. Actually it's pretty rare. For every Heatley / Milne / Dawson there's a Fiora / Plapp / Ackland.

[gringo]

Ted Richards was a s*** player at a s*** club. Despite the crap people talk Kennedy was going nowhere at the Hawks. On the Hawks Dawson was let go when he was the type they were looking for and he was rotting on their list. Clubs and administrators get things wrong.

Good players sometimes never get another go because they are stigmatised by getting cut. Bate probably won't play again, last year they were trying to get him on board. Petterd was killing it for a while, now might never play another game.

Those guys just happened to be at a bad club. If they were at the Pies, teams would offer first round picks for a player of similar quality hoping that a little professionalism comes free. Good players spend careers in the VFL because they are judged unfairly, JPod got talked about year after year but was always considered a lesser standard. In hindsight he could have been playing for 10 years at AFL level.

[gringo]

Ohh. I wasn't arguing for Cook. I don't know who TF he is. My point is sometimes players get let go and turn it around at new clubs. Actually it's pretty rare. For every Heatley / Milne / Dawson there's a Fiora / Plapp / Ackland.

Guys like Guerra and Hudson, Gtrain, Hamill, Pike etc show that the recycleds have a pretty good hit rate. Much higher than 18 yo draft picks.

[plugger66]

Ted Richards was a s*** player at a s*** club. Despite the crap people talk Kennedy was going nowhere at the Hawks. On the Hawks Dawson was let go when he was the type they were looking for and he was rotting on their list. Clubs and administrators get things wrong.

Good players sometimes never get another go because they are stigmatised by getting cut. Bate probably won't play again, last year they were trying to get him on board. Petterd was killing it for a while, now might never play another game.

Those guys just happened to be at a bad club. If they were at the Pies, teams would offer first round picks for a player of similar quality hoping that a little professionalism comes free. Good players spend careers in the VFL because they are judged unfairly, JPod got talked about year after year but was always considered a lesser standard. In hindsight he could have been playing for 10 years at AFL level.

Of course they get things wrong but if we keep suggesting we pick up all these rejects from other clubs we will not get a pick of an 18 year old we havent seen in the draft. We need stars to improve and for every player let go there may be 1 in 100 that turn it around at another club. The rest end up in lower footy or again fail at another club.

Im sure if we keep suggesting players on here one will end up being a star but to get him we may need a list of 150 players.

There will always be a person who will show you a post saying hey look I said we should have got this guy because look how he turned out at another club. Pity he wont show us the posts of the other 50 players he got completely wrong. I want to see some young talent that the AFL hasnt seen yet. We have got 3 who we have seen and maybe with a very late pick we may get another but lets get some new AFL blood in as well.

[gringo]

I call the kids too, no use saying don't suggest the recycled players but don't put out an opinion on who we should look at. About 2 % of all draftees end up in the champion category and that's generous. You need a selection of excellent to good players to be a good team and getting them from different sources is going to be more common as the talent is further stretched. I suggest players safe in the knowledge that very few will ever come to the Saints. Doesn't hurt to put it out there to gauge an opinion. I know yours without even reading your response Plugger.

[saint6709]

Ted Richards was a s*** player at a s*** club. Despite the crap people talk Kennedy was going nowhere at the Hawks. On the Hawks Dawson was let go when he was the type they were looking for and he was rotting on their list. Clubs and administrators get things wrong.

Good players sometimes never get another go because they are stigmatised by getting cut. Bate probably won't play again, last year they were trying to get him on board. Petterd was killing it for a while, now might never play another game.

Those guys just happened to be at a bad club. If they were at the Pies, teams would offer first round picks for a player of similar quality hoping that a little professionalism comes free. Good players spend careers in the VFL because they are judged unfairly, JPod got talked about year after year but was always considered a lesser standard. In hindsight he could have been playing for 10 years at AFL level.

Of course they get things wrong but if we keep suggesting we pick up all these rejects from other clubs we will not get a pick of an 18 year old we havent seen in the draft. We need stars to improve and for every player let go there may be 1 in 100 that turn it around at another club. The rest end up in lower footy or again fail at another club.

Im sure if we keep suggesting players on here one will end up being a star but to get him we may need a list of 150 players.

There will always be a person who will show you a post saying hey look I said we should have got this guy because look how he turned out at another club. Pity he wont show us the posts of the other 50 players he got completely wrong. I want to see some young talent that the AFL hasnt seen yet. We have got 3 who we have seen and maybe with a very late pick we may get another but lets get some new AFL blood in as well.

We need to get in 'new blood'and we will - I'm sure the draft picks will be used sensibly - but if we want to fill the whole of the key back position in 2013 with a new player - he is going to have to be recycled from somewhere -- All the other picks should and I daresay will be used on kids

[Yaysaints]

I remember Shane Wakelin was pretty crap when with us.

[plugger66]

I call the kids too, no use saying don't suggest the recycled players but don't put out an opinion on who we should look at. About 2 % of all draftees end up in the champion category and that's generous. You need a selection of excellent to good players to be a good team and getting them from different sources is going to be more common as the talent is further stretched. I suggest players safe in the knowledge that very few will ever come to the Saints. Doesn't hurt to put it out there to gauge an opinion. I know yours without even reading your response Plugger.

The only kids I see play are Sandy Dragon players and have only seen 3 games of them so i have no idea what kids we should get. I aint a recruiter but we probably have 30 people who are. That is why we have so many. As for recyced players, Hickey isnt for a start and Lee you could say probably isnt either and i certainly havent said we shouldnt have got them. I did say we may have paid to much but that is another story. I did say I wouldnt have got TDl and still say that because I think at 24 he is unlikely to be any better than Saad or Milera. Ther has probably been another 80 players suggested on here and i reckon we had no hope of getting some and the others are crap and i say so. That still doesnt mean I should have an opinion on kids because i would be making it up from sill highlights videos.

By the way i am unsure what you are actually asking.

[vacuous space]

I want to see some young talent that the AFL hasnt seen yet.

Nobody is advocating otherwise. If we pick up a delisted player like Cook, it will be at the expense of someone like Winmar, not a teenager. The number of teenagers we take at the draft is likely four, whether we pick up a mature KPD or not. We're probably hoping somebody like Tanner Smith drops to one of our picks, but even if he does, he's unlikely to walk straight in. We have to choose between a bunch of bad options at the KPD position: go in with what we had this year, recycle somebody or go with an untried player.

On the bright side, prior to this year, at least the previous five GFs featured once-delisted players. Pelchen's Hawks got a flag with Gilham playing key back and Guerra in the lineup. Gilham had also been a skinny first round pick delisted after two years, so it can happen. Tom Lonergan had been delisted too, so he was also available to anybody. That's at least two premiership calibre key defenders who had been delisted prior to winning a flag. Then, of course, there's Dawson, who played in the two GFs following his delisting. So there's always hope. I don't see the harm in people speculating. Picking up a mature defender doesn't have a lot of down side.

[plugger66]

I want to see some young talent that the AFL hasnt seen yet.

Nobody is advocating otherwise. If we pick up a delisted player like Cook, it will be at the expense of someone like Winmar, not a teenager. The number of teenagers we take at the draft is likely four, whether we pick up a mature KPD or not. We're probably hoping somebody like Tanner Smith drops to one of our picks, but even if he does, he's unlikely to walk straight in. We have to choose between a bunch of bad options at the KPD position: go in with what we had this year, recycle somebody or go with an untried player.

On the bright side, prior to this year, at least the previous five GFs featured once-delisted players. Pelchen's Hawks got a flag with Gilham playing key back and Guerra in the lineup. Gilham had also been a skinny first round pick delisted after two years, so it can happen. Tom Lonergan had been delisted too, so he was also available to anybody. That's at least two premiership calibre key defenders who had been delisted prior to winning a flag. Then, of course, there's Dawson, who played in the two GFs following his delisting. So there's always hope. I don't see the harm in people speculating. Picking up a mature defender doesn't have a lot of down side.

We have already picked up a delisted player this draft period.

[vacuous space]

We have already picked up a delisted player this draft period.

We did. I don't see your point.

[plugger66]

We have already picked up a delisted player this draft period.

We did. I don't see your point.

Well Im unsure we need 2 epecially one that hasnt had a chance to improve his form somewhere else. At least Lee looks like he has done that.

[prwilkinson]

Anyone know when we'll be announcing our delistings?

[gringo]

We have already picked up a delisted player this draft period.

We did. I don't see your point.

Well Im unsure we need 2 epecially one that hasnt had a chance to improve his form somewhere else. At least Lee looks like he has done that.

Why isn't hickey and Lee classed as recycled. they were at other clubs and one got cut after a year so must be s*** by your reckoning. We got those guys with extra picks so it's not like they are neglecting the youth. We still need someone big and ready at FB. The only guy that is big enough still isn't going to be a gun from the first day probably. We need to cut some good talented players to fit them in though but that's the system, we can't keep them all. Winmar and Shenton will probably be cut which will be a shame because they are both got potential. Staley and Andreoli are both probably going to struggle to hold spots too as Curren and Dunnell are the only ones likely to push for a senior spot putting everyone else at risk. Do you think those guys are all duds?
maybe the system just makes forced list changes so players with potential get moved on. If Cook ois a potential Lee we could get him free and next year not have to give up pick 12 for the priveledge af watching him at a lower level.

[plugger66]

We did. I don't see your point.

Well Im unsure we need 2 epecially one that hasnt had a chance to improve his form somewhere else. At least Lee looks like he has done that.

Why isn't hickey and Lee classed as recycled. they were at other clubs and one got cut after a year so must be s*** by your reckoning. We got those guys with extra picks so it's not like they are neglecting the youth. We still need someone big and ready at FB. The only guy that is big enough still isn't going to be a gun from the first day probably. We need to cut some good talented players to fit them in though but that's the system, we can't keep them all. Winmar and Shenton will probably be cut which will be a shame because they are both got potential. Staley and Andreoli are both probably going to struggle to hold spots too as Curren and Dunnell are the only ones likely to push for a senior spot putting everyone else at risk. Do you think those guys are all duds?
maybe the system just makes forced list changes so players with potential get moved on. If Cook ois a potential Lee we could get him free and next year not have to give up pick 12 for the priveledge af watching him at a lower level.

Really you make up things in your head. When have i said Hickey or Lee were s***. Just another lie. Please if you are going to discuss things then please dont lie. We wouldnt be getting Cook for free. He takes a spot of another player on our list or a player who is untried that we may have drafted. Im glad you are fascinated with Cook. That makes it about 45 players you have mentioned so eventually you may be able to show a post of a player that comes good and you say I told you so.

Have you even seen this Cook guy. it is hilarious how you jump on a player and have not one bit of knowledge of the guy just because someone mentioned his name on here. Luckily our recruiters dont work that way.

[vacuous space]

Well Im unsure we need 2 [delisted players] epecially one that hasnt had a chance to improve his form somewhere else. At least Lee looks like he has done that.

None of our options for KPD are ideal. We either go with what we've got, recycle or try somebody completely new. If you had a choice between Paul Bower, James Gwilt, Kyle Hartigan or Tanner Smith at KPD for round one next year, which would you choose? I'm not sure there is a right answer.

I don't think Lee, his delisting by Adelaide or the draft pick we gave up to get him will impact our decision at KPD, unless we play him there.

[sax]

Well Im unsure we need 2 [delisted players] epecially one that hasnt had a chance to improve his form somewhere else. At least Lee looks like he has done that.

None of our options for KPD are ideal. We either go with what we've got, recycle or try somebody completely new. If you had a choice between Paul Bower, James Gwilt, Kyle Hartigan or Tanner Smith at KPD for round one next year, which would you choose? I'm not sure there is a right answer.

I don't think Lee, his delisting by Adelaide or the draft pick we gave up to get him will impact our decision at KPD, unless we play him there.

I'd pick Jayden Post!

[vacuous space]

I'd pick Jayden Post!

I'd be far less enthusiastic about that selection!