The Pelican

[felix]

Glass half full or half empty.
Yes the pelchen is not the son of god.
No he hasn't performed any miracles.
No we shouldn't nail him to the cross.
Yes with saad Milera lee and hickey there is the beginning of a future.
Yes There were no monster full backs up for grabs .
Next years draft we may get one . Don't panic don't be angry we are in a process of building for a couple more years.
Just buy a membership and enjoy the ride.

[mr six o'clock]

the story of the pelican
his beak holds more than his belly can .

[The OtherThommo]

As the dust settles and we sit calmly and reflect, I'm very comfortable with how we went about this.

We targeted Mitch Brown, a 23 year old KPD with a lot of ability and with a desire to return home to Victoria.

The player agreed to move to Seaford. Unfortunately for us and Brown, he was still under contract.

We obviously tried to negotiate a trade with West Coast that would be beneficial to the Saints.

When that was knocked back we decided it was still worth pursuing him and decided to offer what many considered to be "overs", ie Cripps + pick 25.

But when that failed we dug our heals in. And fair enough too. We didn't panic and add pick 26 plus Stanley and Siposs to the mix.

West Coast may have bent us over but we refused to pick up the soap.

Other options have been mentioned but they were really only stop gaps at best. And they would have become superfluous had the Brown deal gone through in the end.

We'll have a far better idea of how we sit once the Draft has been completed and our list finalised.

I had considered it overs, but substitute Cripps for 41. 25 & 41 isn't crazy overs as far as I am concerned considering the desperation at needing a FB.

Ah well, well said by the way Doc, you are so often the voice of reason on here!

Ain't that the truth. Any alien who'd just arrived from the planet Simplistic with a spaceship of wizards would reckon these super, big defender types were merely laying around on the ground waiting to be scooped up before they got over ripe and started to rot.

Then anyone with a scintilla of analytical capability would look at the pool of these footy club saviours i.e. these superb big defenders who are so freely available, and ask, why did we miss out, exactly. Then they'd go back to first principles and ask, well how many of these superstars are there, exactly?

Let's start with the grand finalists - Grundy, Richards, Sconemakers and Stratton. Champs? Geelong - Lonergan, Taylor? Brown was 4th in line at the Weegirls. Let's try Adelaide - Rutten? Talia? Available? On to Freo - Zac? Who else? North- Grima? Delaney? Thompson? What, Pears, Hooker? Are they regulars?

Bugger this, I'm bored. Who in the freak was Pelchen supposed to pluck? Where are the great key defenders? This ain't the era of Knights, Doull, (yes) Murray, Dench (and he's a convicted criminal), Southby? Where are all the modern greats? Ried? Who at Carlton? What, Fletcher? Antipasto Carlisle? Stop McPharlin's music career? Get Warnock? Merrett? Did you want Brian Lake? What, kidnap Frawley?

Where are they?

Fact is there aren't many about. Of course Pelchen isn't a genius - he's a good operator in a crowded field of good operators. We missed out, stiff shyte.

Now we adapt. But, we've got a 21 y.o. 200+ cm ruckman and a decent 21 y.o key forward option to help us adapt. And, now we've got more options.

I just don't get the whingathon. I remain bullish on our prospects, and I trust those in charge, NOW. This is the era of developing players within a decent system, adapting your available talent to accentuate your strengths and protect your weaknesses. Everybody's in the same boat. It's down to your management and your systems. We're well placed.

[kimberly saint]

the story of the pelican
his beak holds more than his belly can .

very good

[8856brother]

People on here has overated his skill. Most people overate most people who are involved in the club. Have my doubts on Pelican.

Like Ross.

[howlinwolf]

As the dust settles and we sit calmly and reflect, I'm very comfortable with how we went about this.

We targeted Mitch Brown, a 23 year old KPD with a lot of ability and with a desire to return home to Victoria.

The player agreed to move to Seaford. Unfortunately for us and Brown, he was still under contract.

We obviously tried to negotiate a trade with West Coast that would be beneficial to the Saints.

When that was knocked back we decided it was still worth pursuing him and decided to offer what many considered to be "overs", ie Cripps + pick 25.

But when that failed we dug our heals in. And fair enough too. We didn't panic and add pick 26 plus Stanley and Siposs to the mix.

West Coast may have bent us over but we refused to pick up the soap.

Other options have been mentioned but they were really only stop gaps at best. And they would have become superfluous had the Brown deal gone through in the end.

We'll have a far better idea of how we sit once the Draft has been completed and our list finalised.

I had considered it overs, but substitute Cripps for 41. 25 & 41 isn't crazy overs as far as I am concerned considering the desperation at needing a FB.

Ah well, well said by the way Doc, you are so often the voice of reason on here!

Ain't that the truth. Any alien who'd just arrived from the planet Simplistic with a spaceship of wizards would reckon these super, big defender types were merely laying around on the ground waiting to be scooped up before they got over ripe and started to rot.

Then anyone with a scintilla of analytical capability would look at the pool of these footy club saviours i.e. these superb big defenders who are so freely available, and ask, why did we miss out, exactly. Then they'd go back to first principles and ask, well how many of these superstars are there, exactly?

Let's start with the grand finalists - Grundy, Richards, Sconemakers and Stratton. Champs? Geelong - Lonergan, Taylor? Brown was 4th in line at the Weegirls. Let's try Adelaide - Rutten? Talia? Available? On to Freo - Zac? Who else? North- Grima? Delaney? Thompson? What, Pears, Hooker? Are they regulars?

Bugger this, I'm bored. Who in the freak was Pelchen supposed to pluck? Where are the great key defenders? This ain't the era of Knights, Doull, (yes) Murray, Dench (and he's a convicted criminal), Southby? Where are all the modern greats? Ried? Who at Carlton? What, Fletcher? Antipasto Carlisle? Stop McPharlin's music career? Get Warnock? Merrett? Did you want Brian Lake? What, kidnap Frawley?

Where are they?

Fact is there aren't many about. Of course Pelchen isn't a genius - he's a good operator in a crowded field of good operators. We missed out, stiff shyte.

Now we adapt. But, we've got a 21 y.o. 200+ cm ruckman and a decent 21 y.o key forward option to help us adapt. And, now we've got more options.

I just don't get the whingathon. I remain bullish on our prospects, and I trust those in charge, NOW. This is the era of developing players within a decent system, adapting your available talent to accentuate your strengths and protect your weaknesses. Everybody's in the same boat. It's down to your management and your systems. We're well placed.

I agree 100%. Well written Thommo.

Pelchan is human.
Doesn't have a magic wand. All you can expect from anyone is to do their best in the circumstances. Not do the impossible.

Those that are critical must know where he could have done better. Otherwise how can you criticise ?
Let's start hearing all these other great options......

[HitTheBoundary]

No Pelchen is not the messiah, but I am quite happy with getting Saad and Milera last year, and time will tell on this years trade period. Surely Pelchen should be judged over a number of years.

If Hickey, Lee and the Hyphen turn out to be guns, then we may look back at this draft and say Pelchen was a genius.
If Brown does his knee in round one we'll all be saying how lucky we were not to get him.

But no matter what happens, Bob Murray will find a negative.
Whenever I read his posts I hear the voice of Marvin out of Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy.

[Dis Believer]

As the dust settles and we sit calmly and reflect, I'm very comfortable with how we went about this.

We targeted Mitch Brown, a 23 year old KPD with a lot of ability and with a desire to return home to Victoria.

The player agreed to move to Seaford. Unfortunately for us and Brown, he was still under contract.

We obviously tried to negotiate a trade with West Coast that would be beneficial to the Saints.

When that was knocked back we decided it was still worth pursuing him and decided to offer what many considered to be "overs", ie Cripps + pick 25.

But when that failed we dug our heals in. And fair enough too. We didn't panic and add pick 26 plus Stanley and Siposs to the mix.

West Coast may have bent us over but we refused to pick up the soap.

Other options have been mentioned but they were really only stop gaps at best. And they would have become superfluous had the Brown deal gone through in the end.

We'll have a far better idea of how we sit once the Draft has been completed and our list finalised.

Thanks god to see someone posting that doesn't have their cranium wedged firmly up their fundamental orifice!!

We tried (and from reports nearly succeeded) in making a deal that got us what we identified - a KPD of appropriate ability, in the age profile, at an appropriate price. As the good Doctor points out to those less mentally capable, rebuilding is not done via trade week alone, and in fact is not done in one off-season. If there is any system at all there will be acceptable solutions with ACCEPTABLE prices. My thinking is that if we got Brown,we would have been targeting a KPD kid in the draft as a longer term development and Blake was a goner. I think now we will have potentially a different drafting requirement and may go with a later pick on a KPD from the state leagues that is ready to go and Blake needs to stay as back-up.

There's a lot of angst from people with agendas (defenders of Lyon, worshippers of the Pelican etc). But one thing that is painfully obvious, is that we seem to have much greater system and strucure to our approach now than we have had in the past.We also seem to have contingency plans ready to go. When they realised Brown wasn't going to fly, they immediately got what they could to replace Cripps, and then got what they could for Cripps. We have added two mid first round kids to our list already with 4 second round draft picks in the bank. Based on our drafting with late picks last year, we seem to be on the improve in that area.

Lots of deals didin't get done this year, most of ours did. The only one of ours that didn't was with a mob that gave up pick 17 for Wellingham - not exactly stable people to be dealing with by any measure.

[Legendary]

He couldn't have done anything more.

He even managed an offer of #16 + Cripps. Which is insane. And the Eagles refused.

As said above - what is he supposed to do? Kidnap Frawley?! Hold Glass hostage?!


If you think you can do better - go and sign up for a job, do the training, get involved and show us.

[stinger]

in the end...seems like a whole pile of pelican sh1t to me....hope i'm wrong.....

[Wrote for Luck]

Hickey and Lee better turn out to be hot rods.

And if we had of traded picks 25 and 26 (16) with Cripps for Brown, I would have rushed to the toilet.

[Dr Spaceman]

And if we had of traded picks 25 and 26 (16) with Cripps for Brown, I would have rushed to the toilet.

Where you would have found many Browns; all uncontracted

[joffaboy]

Hickey and Lee better turn out to be hot rods.

So you are on their case already even though they haven't even kicked a ball form the Saints yet?

Really all this crap about recruiters is just that - crap. They make good decisions (Sam Fisher, Leigh Montagna, Saad and Milera etc). they make shockers (Brookes, Betham, even the Clarkes, Ball over Judd).

How will we tell if these choics have been good or not for one to two years?

And if we had of traded picks 25 and 26 (16) with Cripps for Brown, I would have rushed to the toilet.

Was prepared to cop 25 and Cripps but 25 and 26 and Cripps for Brown, after we had traded 12 and 13? We dodged a bullet and I think it smacked of desperation.

[ace]

Yes, Pelchen is overrated but so what. As soon as anyone is talked up they become overrated.

The point is this site had him down as the messiah, but he's not, he's an employee....

I take it you want to have this messiah fellow crucified.
First you need to get Pontius to give the order.

[gringo]

We really needed a full back but even with Goddard gone can't pay as much as the Dees and Lions. We don't offer a realistic chance at a premiership in the next couple so are up against easy pickings. When does Frawley fall out of contract. Merrett would be a good get but probably wouldn't be able to afford him. I hope we get a kid like Rodda and just play him there with the help of chop outs like McEvoy standing in front of him, Blakey if he struggles and needs to rebuild his confidence at Sandy.

[Dr Spaceman]

Some, I repeat, some may have seen Pelchen as the messiah.

But some of us just saw him for what he is. And that is a bloke who's very astute and very good at what he does. That is why we were happy with his appointment.

And I have no complaints with CP's performance thus far.

BTW: Besides an aging Lake, who has had injury concerns in recent years, which other starting FB was available/traded?

[saint6709]

the pelican certainly gave it all he had - the players he got ( not sure TDL but the other2 ) i think will be great - missed on brown - but not for lack of trying -- so now he and his cohorts have to pick themselves up again and find a solution to the problem of a large backman -- hopefully they can do something miraculous and find someone ready to go in a state league - If we are really lucky we'll get someone who oustounds the critics and has commentators saying - where has this bloke been hiding ? -- If that happens we are serious top 4 contenders IMO

[bobmurray]

in the end...seems like a whole pile of pelican sh1t to me....hope i'm wrong.....

[Scoop]

The way I look at it, Pelican and co entered the FA/trade period with a plan.....and mind you, I believe this will be part of a rolling multi year year list strategy.....

First we needed to get Salary Cap relief, hence we allowed Goddard to go.....coupled with Roo's (and a couple of others) reduced salary......

We didn't target any Free Agents because we didn't want to dilute the compo pick.

We then went to the trade table with specific targets in mind, as we did last year, which included the position they played and the age demographic...and most likely the player.....at the same time maximising the pick, where possible (i.e. P.12 for Lee + 24 & 43).

Ok we missed on Caddy....because Geelong had a pick that suited GCS better than ours....and we missed on Brown, due to WCE's intransigence....and believe me, there is more to this than just their wish to keep a back up KPD!!

The fact that we did not trade for just any 'big bloke' to fill our KPD hole, when it was obvious that the Brown deal was not going to happen, backs up the targeting aspect of our trading strategy. As The Other Thommo most eloquently stated in his earlier post, good KPDs do not just grow on trees, waiting to be plucked. Would those of you potting the Pelican prefer him to have used the Melbourne scatter gun approach.....smacks of Carlton and Lions recruiting of previous years.

On the whole, given what we had, I think we did pretty well. And, as I have stated previously, let's wait till the end of all the FA/trade/drafts to totally assess the result....and obviously the real effectiveness of any trade/draft period will not be known for a year or three.

[Wrote for Luck]

Hickey and Lee better turn out to be hot rods.

So you are on their case already even though they haven't even kicked a ball form the Saints yet?

Quite right. Let's let them settle in. Fluff about in the weights room. Get wicked hair cuts and show sly senses of humour on lunch with Lenny. Meet some chicks at community events, and let them soak up the Peninsula sun with fine wages and genital waxes.

God forbid we should expect them to play outstanding football.

[cross2012]

We're in rebuild mode, its a 3 -4 year reload, therefore hard to judge at year one. i think we have recruited well so far and perhaps the monster backman is in one of the next drafts, who knows.
I am happy we missed brown, as i would rather the draft picks. I am not sure why the raps on Brown, hasnt really done much and his own club rates him behind three others. Perhaps he is no better than Wilkes as a defender, now that would have been disappointing.
End of the day, you can only offer what you think a player is worth. Anything else is irresponsible and short term thinking.

[Dis Believer]

The way I look at it, Pelican and co entered the FA/trade period with a plan.....and mind you, I believe this will be part of a rolling multi year year list strategy.....

First we needed to get Salary Cap relief, hence we allowed Goddard to go.....coupled with Roo's (and a couple of others) reduced salary......

We didn't target any Free Agents because we didn't want to dilute the compo pick.

We then went to the trade table with specific targets in mind, as we did last year, which included the position they played and the age demographic...and most likely the player.....at the same time maximising the pick, where possible (i.e. P.12 for Lee + 24 & 43).

Ok we missed on Caddy....because Geelong had a pick that suited GCS better than ours....and we missed on Brown, due to WCE's intransigence....and believe me, there is more to this than just their wish to keep a back up KPD!!

The fact that we did not trade for just any 'big bloke' to fill our KPD hole, when it was obvious that the Brown deal was not going to happen, backs up the targeting aspect of our trading strategy. As The Other Thommo most eloquently stated in his earlier post, good KPDs do not just grow on trees, waiting to be plucked. Would those of you potting the Pelican prefer him to have used the Melbourne scatter gun approach.....smacks of Carlton and Lions recruiting of previous years.

On the whole, given what we had, I think we did pretty well. And, as I have stated previously, let's wait till the end of all the FA/trade/drafts to totally assess the result....and obviously the real effectiveness of any trade/draft period will not be known for a year or three.

Excelllent post scoop, well out of place here amongst the whining about why we didin't get Glass and Franklin for pick 89 in a 3 way deal with a can of coke.

This statement intrigues me "and believe me, there is more to this than just their wish to keep a back up KPD!!" care to expand??

[Dave McNamara]

Ain't that the truth. Any alien who'd just arrived from the planet Simplistic with a spaceship of wizards would reckon these super, big defender types were merely laying around on the ground waiting to be scooped up before they got over ripe and started to rot.

Then anyone with a scintilla of analytical capability would look at the pool of these footy club saviours i.e. these superb big defenders who are so freely available, and ask, why did we miss out, exactly. Then they'd go back to first principles and ask, well how many of these superstars are there, exactly?

Let's start with the grand finalists - Grundy, Richards, Sconemakers and Stratton. Champs? Geelong - Lonergan, Taylor? Brown was 4th in line at the Weegirls. Let's try Adelaide - Rutten? Talia? Available? On to Freo - Zac? Who else? North- Grima? Delaney? Thompson? What, Pears, Hooker? Are they regulars?

Bugger this, I'm bored. Who in the freak was Pelchen supposed to pluck? Where are the great key defenders? This ain't the era of Knights, Doull, (yes) Murray, Dench (and he's a convicted criminal), Southby? Where are all the modern greats? Ried? Who at Carlton? What, Fletcher? Antipasto Carlisle? Stop McPharlin's music career? Get Warnock? Merrett? Did you want Brian Lake? What, kidnap Frawley?

Where are they?

Fact is there aren't many about. Of course Pelchen isn't a genius - he's a good operator in a crowded field of good operators. We missed out, stiff shyte.

Now we adapt. But, we've got a 21 y.o. 200+ cm ruckman and a decent 21 y.o key forward option to help us adapt. And, now we've got more options.

I just don't get the whingathon. I remain bullish on our prospects, and I trust those in charge, NOW. This is the era of developing players within a decent system, adapting your available talent to accentuate your strengths and protect your weaknesses. Everybody's in the same boat. It's down to your management and your systems. We're well placed.

I agree T OT. Great post! Pretty much what I'd have written if capable.

And love the 'planet Simplistic' line. Though if those particular aliens ever did arrive here, the argument could be made that they'd feel right at home... or maybe they're already here amongst us...?

We tried (and from reports nearly succeeded) in making a deal that got us what we identified - a KPD of appropriate ability, in the age profile, at an appropriate price. As the good Doctor points out... rebuilding is not done via trade week alone, and in fact is not done in one off-season. If there is any system at all there will be acceptable solutions with ACCEPTABLE prices.

Agreed. Seaford wasn't built in a day.

Thanks god to see someone posting that doesn't have their cranium wedged firmly up their fundamental orifice!!

As an aside TB, since food needs to come first before waste elimaination is needed (input before there can be output)... I'd rate the mouth as the primary orifice...? If so, that's make the above an even more challenging feat...?

[kimberly saint]

The way I look at it, Pelican and co entered the FA/trade period with a plan.....and mind you, I believe this will be part of a rolling multi year year list strategy.....

First we needed to get Salary Cap relief, hence we allowed Goddard to go.....coupled with Roo's (and a couple of others) reduced salary......

We didn't target any Free Agents because we didn't want to dilute the compo pick.

We then went to the trade table with specific targets in mind, as we did last year, which included the position they played and the age demographic...and most likely the player.....at the same time maximising the pick, where possible (i.e. P.12 for Lee + 24 & 43).

Ok we missed on Caddy....because Geelong had a pick that suited GCS better than ours....and we missed on Brown, due to WCE's intransigence....and believe me, there is more to this than just their wish to keep a back up KPD!!

The fact that we did not trade for just any 'big bloke' to fill our KPD hole, when it was obvious that the Brown deal was not going to happen, backs up the targeting aspect of our trading strategy. As The Other Thommo most eloquently stated in his earlier post, good KPDs do not just grow on trees, waiting to be plucked. Would those of you potting the Pelican prefer him to have used the Melbourne scatter gun approach.....smacks of Carlton and Lions recruiting of previous years.

On the whole, given what we had, I think we did pretty well. And, as I have stated previously, let's wait till the end of all the FA/trade/drafts to totally assess the result....and obviously the real effectiveness of any trade/draft period will not be known for a year or three.

yes spot on scoop

[BadRossco]

I am not certain about the Pelican but it would be difficult to soar like an eagle when you are surrounded by galah's.
Our recruiting staff have again continued to blow our first round picks, hopefully they are due to come up with a winner not the likes of Lovett, Brookes or Watts.