How many more do we need to de-list?

[borderbarry]

How many more do we need to de-list?
We had 38 on our list last season, were we two players short on our list?
We have de-listed Polo Peake and Crocker off the Senior list, and Goddard and Cripps are gone. Do we have five positions to fill or seven. Can anyone tell me please?

[SainterK]

Thanks to bigfooty

Saints outs: Sam Crocker, Dean Polo, Brett Peake, Daniel Archer, Brendan Goddard, Jamie Cripps.

Saints Ins: Tom Lee, Tom Hickey, Trent Dennis-Lane

Uncontracted: Jason Blake, Raph Clarke

[class of 2010]

does that indicate ledger has re-signed or is that being assumed as an inevitability given he wasn't traded?

[Sainternist]

I gotta say, we may not have picked up any big names, but we've definitely trimmed off some deadwood (no offense implied) so far this off-season.

[on the outer]

http://www.aflpa.com.au/images/uploads/ ... h_2011.pdf

According to the document above (page 205) the maximum primary list is 38.

With the arrivals and departures we now have 36 you have to make three selections at the Draft (which can include a rookie upgrade) we have to delist at least one more player.

[St Loxton]

I gotta say, we may not have picked up any big names, but we've definitely trimmed off some deadwood (no offense implied) so far this off-season.

True that. Pity Archer just couldnt take that giant step into the bigtime.

[borderbarry]

Dont forget Archer was a Rookie, he was not on the Senior List.

[evo]

We have lost 5 from the list and gained 3. Two spots available atm.

2013 Draft Picks: 25, 26, 41, 44, 77, 95, 113,131
UNCONTRACTED PLAYERS Jason Blake Raph Clarke T Ledger.
We did not get a backman so Blake will be retained. The club says that they will use 4 picks and they will prob upgrade Dunnel. Three have to be cut.

[Con Gorozidis]

We have lost 5 from the list and gained 3. Two spots available atm.

2013 Draft Picks: 25, 26, 41, 44, 77, 95, 113,131
UNCONTRACTED PLAYERS Jason Blake Raph Clarke T Ledger.
We did not get a backman so Blake will be retained. The club says that they will use 4 picks and they will prob upgrade Dunnel. Three have to be cut.

25=kid
26= jacobs
44=kid
45= kyle hartigan

plus promote fergs/dunnel/curren

So 7 more INS to come IMHO.

[mad saint guy]

Raph will certainly be delisted. Blake probably stays. Winmar could be delisted and rookied. I wonder if Webster or Lever could have their contracts terminated early to make way - we'd easily have the space to pay them out. Jones could maybe be cut as well.

It makes the TDL trade even more bemusing. We add yet another small forward to the list when we don't have enough spots as it is.

I wouldn't be surprised to see all of Curren, Dunell and Ferguson stay on the rookie list.

[St Loxton]

Raph will certainly be delisted. Blake probably stays. Winmar could be delisted and rookied. I wonder if Webster or Lever could have their contracts terminated early to make way - we'd easily have the space to pay them out. Jones could maybe be cut as well.

It makes the TDL trade even more bemusing. We add yet another small forward to the list when we don't have enough spots as it is.

I wouldn't be surprised to see all of Curren, Dunell and Ferguson stay on the rookie list.

Would be very surprised to see CJ get cut, hes contracted isnt he?

[Dis Believer]

if three have to go Raph & Winmar probably top the list.

Who's the third......? Webster, Staley, Lever.

You would think some rookies will go and someone on the fringe may go to the rookie list (Winmar is an obvious candidate).

[mad saint guy]

Would be very surprised to see CJ get cut, hes contracted isnt he?

He is, but the only out of contract players we currently have are Blake, Raph and Ledger. Blake probably stays since we didn't get an AFL-quality defender, Raph is gone and Ledger should get another contract.

So on the senior list we've had

OUT: Polo, Peake, Goddard, Cripps, Crocker
IN: Lee, Hickey, Dennis-Lane

Which leaves us with two spots. We need to cut a minimum of two more to use our draft picks and three if we want to upgrade a rookie. With Goddard leaving and us not landing Brown, we would have a huge amount of cap space left over that could be used to pay out contracts that are terminated early (Winmar/Jones/Webster/Lever).

[borderbarry]

At the same time we have to reduce our rookie list to four, unless the AFL have a change of heart. Does not help the situation, i.e. unlikely we will demote anyone to the rookie list from the Senior list

[desertsaint]

Just wish we'd pay blake the respect he deserves. Reward him for his loyalty. He will repay us yet again.

[mad saint guy]

At the same time we have to reduce our rookie list to four, unless the AFL have a change of heart. Does not help the situation, i.e. unlikely we will demote anyone to the rookie list from the Senior list

So with Archer gone we now have 7 rookies. If we want to use any picks in the rookie draft this year, we'll need to cut hard.

Shenton, Staley and Andreoli haven't really done much to warrant attention and may find themselves cut. Which brings us down to four. Curren and Ferguson will almost certainly stay as rookies, while Dunell might be elevated and Minchington might be cut.

If I had to have a guess at out final movements, it'd be something like this

OUT: Clarke, Winmar, Webster, Shenton (r), Staley (r), Andreoli (r)
IN: Pick 25, Pick 26, Pick 41, Pick 44, Dunell (elevated), Rookie Pick

Winmar and Webster's contracts would have to be paid out, which I can't see as being an issue since we have Goddard's 650k and Brown's 400k free. I'd personally delist Jones as well, but Watters' comments after the season suggest that he'll stay.

[saintbob]

Out: Clarke, Winmar and Jones

All are past their used by dates!!

Webster will survive he had a lot of soft tissue injuries this year, with a good preseason under his belt he'll come good.

[ace]

http://www.aflpa.com.au/images/uploads/ ... h_2011.pdf

According to the document above (page 205) the maximum primary list is 38.

With the arrivals and departures we now have 36 you have to make three selections at the Draft (which can include a rookie upgrade) we have to delist at least one more player.

The maximum (and minimum) primary list is indeed 38 players but the maximum number of SENIOR players is 40.
Rule 32.1.1 page 165 of AFL Player Rules March 2011, allows a club to have up to 2 VETERANS who are NOT on the primary list.
St Kilda has heaps of players who now qualify as veterans.

When all the announced additons and deletions are taken into account St Kilda's senior list stands at 36.
That means that 4 national draft picks are already activated and can already be exercised at the National Draft.
However space must be made for permanent rookie upgrades.

Nick Riewoldt and Lenny Hayes both qualify as veterans.
They should be our two best paid players and thus reduce their contribution towards total player payments by 50% of their total payments.

The 4 second round picks 24, 25, 41, & 44 are certain to be used on new players in the national draft.
Senior players must be delisted or retire to activate later draft picks 77, 95, 113 etc. or to allow permanent rookie upgrades as they are counted as draft picks.

[on the outer]

well spotted missed that when I was looking looks like that approach will impact on rookies though

"Where a Club transfers a Player or Players from its Primary List to its Veterans List, the General Manager - Football Operations shall reduce the maximum number of Players permitted to be included on the Club’s Rookie List by 1 or 2, as the case may be, in lieu of the Player or Players transferred to the Veterans List."

[ace]

well spotted missed that when I was looking looks like that approach will impact on rookies though

"Where a Club transfers a Player or Players from its Primary List to its Veterans List, the General Manager - Football Operations shall reduce the maximum number of Players permitted to be included on the Club’s Rookie List by 1 or 2, as the case may be, in lieu of the Player or Players transferred to the Veterans List."

In practice clubs have been able to have 40 senior players for a number of years now.
However salary cap pressures have led some clubs (St Kilda 2012) to reduce that number to 39 or 38.
In theory that meant they could have extra rookies, but St Kilda did not exploit that in 2012 when they only had a total of 38 senior players.

[ace]

The big change to the lists rules occurs to rookie numbers, due the expiry of rule 21.1.3.
This rule allowed clubs an extra 2 rookies due the impact of establishment of Gold Coast and Greater Western Sydney.

Now clubs can only have a total of 44 senior and noraml rookie players plus any extra rookies under rule 21.1.2
That means that St Kilda with 38 primary list players, 2 veterans would only be allowed 4 normal rookies.
Jackson Ferguson is a rule 21.1.2 rookie because he is a former NSW scholarship holder.
That would limit St Kilda to 5 rookies including Ferguson.
If however Ferguson is permanently promoted to the senior list St Kilda would be limitd to 4 rookies.

At present St Kilda has Warrick Andreoli, Tom Curren, Sam Dunell, Darren Minchingham, Cameron Shenton, Jordan Staley plus rule 21.1.2 rookie Jackson Ferguson.
Even promoting Tom Curren and Sam Dunnell would leave St Kilda with no rookie draft picks.

Only 4 normal rookies means clubs will probably reduce their rookie picks to 1 or 2 per year and become an impediment to senior players being moved to the rookie list if they survive the national draft.
Clubs may be tempted to exploit rule 21.1.2 (International Scholarship, Non Irish International Players or Not Been Registered or Played AFL in last 3 years).

Personally I think clubs should be allowed more rookies, that way rookies could be given 3 years to prove themselves.
Only 4 normal rookies per club rookies means many will only get 1 year and 2 years if lucky.

[ace]

The reduction in rookie numbers due the expiry of rule 21.1.3 means that even if Curren and Dunell are permanently promoted, some of Andreoli, Minchington, Shenton, Staley have to be cut to create rookie picks.
Andreoli after 2 years seems doomed.
Minchington, Shenton, Staley have only had 1 year, at least one will probably be cut.
They have been given little time to develop.
An attempt to move Winmar to the rookie list would result in another rookie being cut.

Not happy Andrew!

[noob]

I reckon the days of developing players on the rookie list might change now. Pick 4 mature age players ready to go for back up.

[borderbarry]

If we pick mature players as rookies, what is the point of having the academy? No, we still need to develop youngsters as rookies.

[70s sainter]

Its an interesting situation and they must have a plan re new picks and who theyre gonna delist because they turned one pick into a player and a pick, twice in the trading period giving us two extra new players overall. Therefore needing to cut four players from the two draft picks we originally had.