How good is Hicky actually?

[mad saint guy]

Hickey has done nothing but take a few good contested marks against Collingwood. He's the only player Blake has ever polled Brownlow votes against in over 200 games. He may well improve but that's totally speculation - he may also be a spud who never puts on size or has no footy brain.

The inference here is that Blake is s.hit.

OTOH you could say Hickey is as good as Adam Goodes because Blake owned Goodes in s a semi final (when you dont get Brownlow votes).

Pretty poor example.

Not at all. Just saying that he's clearly not AFL standard yet. Blake has been serviceable for many years, but against Hickey he dominated the ruck and around the ground.

[joffaboy]

Hickey has done nothing but take a few good contested marks against Collingwood. He's the only player Blake has ever polled Brownlow votes against in over 200 games. He may well improve but that's totally speculation - he may also be a spud who never puts on size or has no footy brain.

The inference here is that Blake is s.hit.

OTOH you could say Hickey is as good as Adam Goodes because Blake owned Goodes in s a semi final (when you dont get Brownlow votes).

Pretty poor example.

Not at all. Just saying that he's clearly not AFL standard yet. Blake has been serviceable for many years, but against Hickey he dominated the ruck and around the ground.

Ok fair enough

[St Ick]

If we trade with Port to get Jacobs, anyone think this could work?

25 & 37 to Port for Jacobs & 30.

Ontrade 30 to GC for Hickey.

I reckon despite the hype that is where he sits, too good for 37 not good enough for 25.

Still think Cripps will come into it, either through 3 way trade with Broughton to Port or straight up to Freo for Broughts.

At the very least it should spark up some action with those pigheaded Weagles who are trying to stuff us around...

[Old Mate]

If we trade with Port to get Jacobs, anyone think this could work?

25 & 37 to Port for Jacobs & 30.

Ontrade 30 to GC for Hickey.

I reckon despite the hype that is where he sits, too good for 37 not good enough for 25.

Still think Cripps will come into it, either through 3 way trade with Broughton to Port or straight up to Freo for Broughts.

At the very least it should spark up some action with those pigheaded Weagles who are trying to stuff us around...

I like the way you are thinking however I'm not sure those suggestions will get the job done. From what I've read GC are adamant that they will only accept a first rounder for Hickey so I think we are gonna have to get mighty close to that if we want Hickey enough. Perhaps we will make it happen with 25 but pick 30 is moving us further away and not sure GC will budge.

Rumours now circulating that the Pies may move pick 20 for Hickey however I'm not sure how legitimate the rumour is. Possibly GC are trying to force our hand to deal pick 13. Personally I hope we move on from Hickey if that's the case. I actually agree with you that pick 25 is too much for him.

I'm not sold on Jacobs and I can't understand why we are even looking at him. We've got plenty of half back flankers and to me he looks like a downgrade on Jack Newnes who can play a similar role. Perhaps we hope that he could be a potential midfielder however he's not seen to be a ball-winner, more of an outside receiver.

[Dis Believer]

Still think Cripps will come into it, either through 3 way trade with Broughton to Port or straight up to Freo for Broughts.

At the very least it should spark up some action with those pigheaded Weagles who are trying to stuff us around...

This I like. Means our picks stay put, we stick it up the weagles, and get something we want for Cripss, if the Power are into Broughton and he fits a need for them that's win all round, including for Cripps, who gets his desire to go home.....

[Teflon]

Sainterss sounds like he has some inside goss.

Any other goss you can share ?

Some of this is probably already known information, but here are a few things...

- Brown still a chance.
- WC won't give up much for Cripps, so all hope lies in WC relenting on not trading Brown, otherwise we won't get much from him, unfortunately.
- This is why the Cripps trade is taking so long and will probably only get settled on the last day. St Kilda hoping WC relent on Brown and thus don't want to trade Cripps until it's 100% certain Brown won't come to the Saints.
- Jacobs no certainty to head to North, despite nominating them. St Kilda a chance.
- Despite Ray's manager last week saying Ray will stay, he is still a very good chance to head to the Dees.
- Saints aren't that keen for Martin. (Not sure why?)
- Broughton on the cards for St Kilda. (Not really sure what it would take from St Kilda's POV)
- Suns playing hardball on Hickey (as we all know), and the Pies are a real threat and the main threat to stealing him because of the picks they have (17, 18, 20 all before St Kilda's 25)

Mind you all are these are rumours, so don't kill me if they don't happen, please!

I thought Pies didnt have the cash for Hickey?

[Old Mate]

I thought Pies didnt have the cash for Hickey?

Who knows what to believe. They said they had finished trading mid last week and then picked up Clinton Young.

3AW reported that Hickey had a medical with the Pies over the weekend and now there are rumours that the Pies may part with pick 20 for him. Good luck to them, they are paying overs.

[Saintersss]

I thought Pies didnt have the cash for Hickey?

I can't imagine Hickey would get a huge contract. This is a developing ruckman, he won't be on that much at all.

[Dis Believer]

Don't understand what we're trying to do if any of the rumours are correct, but if the pies magical expanding salary cap accommodates Hickey now as well, and WCE are gonna try and screw us on Cripps, I would do the following:

Send Ray to Melb for Martin & 49.
Send Cripps (with pick 46 if need be) to Freo for Broughton and ontrade Broughton to PA (with 49 if we have to) for pick 30 or 31.

13, 25, 31, 37,

If we can't pull a KPD and/or Ruckman out of that, we should just give up. Hell we only need one or the other once we decide if we want Martin to play KPD or ruck.

What's more we could probably on-trade Martin and 37 to Brisbane for pick 24, end up with 13, 24, 25, 31

[sainterinsydney]

Do you reckon pick 13 for Hickey and Toy could be a goer?

[St Ick]

If we trade with Port to get Jacobs, anyone think this could work?

25 & 37 to Port for Jacobs & 30.

Ontrade 30 to GC for Hickey.

I reckon despite the hype that is where he sits, too good for 37 not good enough for 25.

Still think Cripps will come into it, either through 3 way trade with Broughton to Port or straight up to Freo for Broughts.

At the very least it should spark up some action with those pigheaded Weagles who are trying to stuff us around...

I like the way you are thinking however I'm not sure those suggestions will get the job done. From what I've read GC are adamant that they will only accept a first rounder for Hickey so I think we are gonna have to get mighty close to that if we want Hickey enough. Perhaps we will make it happen with 25 but pick 30 is moving us further away and not sure GC will budge.

Rumours now circulating that the Pies may move pick 20 for Hickey however I'm not sure how legitimate the rumour is. Possibly GC are trying to force our hand to deal pick 13. Personally I hope we move on from Hickey if that's the case. I actually agree with you that pick 25 is too much for him.

I'm not sold on Jacobs and I can't understand why we are even looking at him. We've got plenty of half back flankers and to me he looks like a downgrade on Jack Newnes who can play a similar role. Perhaps we hope that he could be a potential midfielder however he's not seen to be a ball-winner, more of an outside receiver.

Haven't the Pies loaded up on all the gun ruckmen in recent drafts already? I know we shouldn't pay overs but this is where my passion gets the better of me

On Jacobs, I see him as a solid replacement for Gram, Clarke, Peake, Polo, Ray (if traded). All those guys are either gone or will be in a couple of years. I really rate Newnes, but can see him playing in the same team as Jacobs in coming years. I am not worried if we don't get him but he does have some good attributes to play the Lids/Gibbs role for us. So in summary, while have a number of half back flankers, there arent many under 25 and we dont want to be in the same situation we are in now again in 5 years time

[St Ick]

Do you reckon pick 13 for Hickey and Toy could be a goer?

Hope not. I've only had 13 on the table once and that was for Caddy. Anyone else, even a combo and its overs. Especially when we could get Macrae, Stringer, Menzel or similar with that one.

[Old Mate]

Haven't the Pies loaded up on all the gun ruckmen in recent drafts already? I know we shouldn't pay overs but this is where my passion gets the better of me

On Jacobs, I see him as a solid replacement for Gram, Clarke, Peake, Polo, Ray (if traded). All those guys are either gone or will be in a couple of years. I really rate Newnes, but can see him playing in the same team as Jacobs in coming years. I am not worried if we don't get him but he does have some good attributes to play the Lids/Gibbs role for us. So in summary, while have a number of half back flankers, there arent many under 25 and we dont want to be in the same situation we are in now again in 5 years time

I think the Pies have just about given up on Cameron Wood and may even look at trading him and Jolly doesn't have a heap of good footy left in him. I think they've got a couple of developing ruckman however they may not be ready for another year or two (or three).

I see your point on Jacobs and I suppose another spot opens up when Cripps departs. I don't know a lot about Jacobs other than he was a high draft pick and he's an outside mid with decent skills so as far as his overall ability goes I've got limited knowledge.

He would want to be pretty handy for pick 25 cos he was selected at pick 16 in a compromised draft where GC had all those pre-selections so realistically he could have been around the 20-30 best from that draft. He's only spent two years in the system but from my limited knowledge of him he hasn't done enough to warrant a gain in value, he's probably dropped a little.

[WinnersOnly]

Gold Coast have proven to be pricks to deal with - they get every decent kid in the country for 2 years and they are still trying to screw the Vic clubs. Tell them & Hickey to get farked and draft a kid plus a state league ruckman. WCE can do the same wait 12 months and get Brown for nil !

[groupie1]

good question, i would be interested to.

cox like if we get him, will take us to our next flag.

If we miss him over rated , the next barry brooks i hope

Your mentioning Barry Brooks reminds me of the almost disastrous decade or so of drafting and recruiting (& retention) we've had:
Matt McGuire, X Clarke, Raph Clarke, Luke Ball, Brendon Goddard, Justin Kozietcheswke, Jamie Cripps, Barry Brooks, Luke Penny, Heath Black, Dean Polo, Aaron Fiora, Brett 'Reached his' Peake, Andrew Lovett, Attard, Birss...

I'll give them a tick for the Gehrig/Hamill/Voss trio (though, four other clowns came with them, so its less than a 50% strike rate).

All that talk about the genius behind the blokes who got Sam Fisher & James Gwilt... that genius was very bloody occasional.

Fish, Gwilt, Roo, NDS, Dempster and Stephen Powell have been about the only genuinely, unconditionally successful recruitments (on a 'for the cost' and 'fit for the purpose' basis) since the '01 splurge.

Hopefully Armitage gets there.

[magnifisaint]

I've read a lot of conflicting reports on him. Alot of people on here think he aint that great and isn't worth anything less then our third round pick. But I've also read stuff in the media saying he is extremely talented and the sky's the limit with his potential and the gold coast are shattered to lose him. Even read somewhere he could be as good as dean cox, which I find hard to believe. I've never seen him play, what's the truth, somewhere in the middle?

You can't handle the truth!

[Zed]

The Hickey hype reminds me a little of the hype around Cameron Wood who was going to be the next big thing in rucking - who now cant get a game at Collingwood and could be soon delisted if Hickey lands at Collingwood.

[noob]

No way is he worth a first round draft pick. 25 is almost stretching it as well.

[fugazi]

good question, i would be interested to.

cox like if we get him, will take us to our next flag.

If we miss him over rated , the next barry brooks i hope

Your mentioning Barry Brooks reminds me of the almost disastrous decade or so of drafting and recruiting (& retention) we've had:
Matt McGuire, X Clarke, Raph Clarke, Luke Ball, Brendon Goddard, Justin Kozietcheswke, Jamie Cripps, Barry Brooks, Luke Penny, Heath Black, Dean Polo, Aaron Fiora, Brett 'Reached his' Peake, Andrew Lovett, Attard, Birss...

I'll give them a tick for the Gehrig/Hamill/Voss trio (though, four other clowns came with them, so its less than a 50% strike rate).

All that talk about the genius behind the blokes who got Sam Fisher & James Gwilt... that genius was very bloody occasional.

Fish, Gwilt, Roo, NDS, Dempster and Stephen Powell have been about the only genuinely, unconditionally successful recruitments (on a 'for the cost' and 'fit for the purpose' basis) since the '01 splurge.

Hopefully Armitage gets there.

Nothing wrong with recruiting BJ (10 year player), Kosi (got smashed for 2 years, never reached his potential), Luke Ball (pig headed Ross Lyon ), Matt Maguire ( good player - horrible leg break), Luke Penny was good too, just retired early....not the recruiters fault..............Andrew Lovett, Brooks, Attard...I grant you, were terrible.

[St Ick]

good question, i would be interested to.

cox like if we get him, will take us to our next flag.

If we miss him over rated , the next barry brooks i hope

Your mentioning Barry Brooks reminds me of the almost disastrous decade or so of drafting and recruiting (& retention) we've had:
Matt McGuire, X Clarke, Raph Clarke, Luke Ball, Brendon Goddard, Justin Kozietcheswke, Jamie Cripps, Barry Brooks, Luke Penny, Heath Black, Dean Polo, Aaron Fiora, Brett 'Reached his' Peake, Andrew Lovett, Attard, Birss...

I'll give them a tick for the Gehrig/Hamill/Voss trio (though, four other clowns came with them, so its less than a 50% strike rate).

All that talk about the genius behind the blokes who got Sam Fisher & James Gwilt... that genius was very bloody occasional.

Fish, Gwilt, Roo, NDS, Dempster and Stephen Powell have been about the only genuinely, unconditionally successful recruitments (on a 'for the cost' and 'fit for the purpose' basis) since the '01 splurge.

Hopefully Armitage gets there.

Nothing wrong with recruiting BJ (10 year player), Kosi (got smashed for 2 years, never reached his potential), Luke Ball (pig headed Ross Lyon ), Matt Maguire ( good player - horrible leg break), Luke Penny was good too, just retired early....not the recruiters fault..............Andrew Lovett, Brooks, Attard...I grant you, were terrible.

Attard wasn't terrible, remember he did a knee or broke a leg or something but showed a bit prior to that... but his injuries killed his chances

[bergholt]

I think the Pies have just about given up on Cameron Wood and may even look at trading him and Jolly doesn't have a heap of good footy left in him. I think they've got a couple of developing ruckman however they may not be ready for another year or two (or three).

I don't know anything about these guys, but on the face of it the Pies have:

Jarrod Witts: 208cm, 113kg, 20 years old
Shae McNamara: 204cm, 104kg, 27 years old, rookie
Cameron Wood: 204cm, 107kg, 25 years old, 64 games
Lachlan Keeffe: 204cm, 99kg, 22 years old, 14 games
Jonathon Ceglar: 204cm, 90kg, 21 years old
Darren Jolly: 200cm, 108kg, 30 years old, 228 games
Corey Gault: 198cm, 87kg, 19 years old

You'd think adding Hickey in there would spell the end for Wood and McNamara, and a major road block for Witts, Ceglar and Gault, but I guess if they don't rate any of those five much then it would make sense.

[Con Gorozidis]

rule to live by. never use a good draft pick on a ruckmqn.
they will only disappoint. like all rules there are freakish exceptions like nicnat but i wouldnt part with anything under 30 for a ruckman.

[shmic_s]

Me and Ben McEvoy would beg to differ Con.

[St Ick]

rule to live by. never use a good draft pick on a ruckmqn.
they will only disappoint. like all rules there are freakish exceptions like nicnat but i wouldnt part with anything under 30 for a ruckman.

Niknat, Kruezer, Jolly, Mac... most of the time the top one or two rucks are taken by the time 30 comes around.

[Old Mate]

I think the Pies have just about given up on Cameron Wood and may even look at trading him and Jolly doesn't have a heap of good footy left in him. I think they've got a couple of developing ruckman however they may not be ready for another year or two (or three).

I don't know anything about these guys, but on the face of it the Pies have:

Jarrod Witts: 208cm, 113kg, 20 years old - Developing ruckman
Shae McNamara: 204cm, 104kg, 27 years old, rookie - Never heard of him
Cameron Wood: 204cm, 107kg, 25 years old, 64 games - Spud/Delist candidate
Lachlan Keeffe: 204cm, 99kg, 22 years old, 14 games - Key Back
Jonathon Ceglar: 204cm, 90kg, 21 years old - Developing Ruckman
Darren Jolly: 200cm, 108kg, 30 years old, 228 games - Old/Retire soon
Corey Gault: 198cm, 87kg, 19 years old - Developing Ruckman/Looks a little undersized

You'd think adding Hickey in there would spell the end for Wood and McNamara, and a major road block for Witts, Ceglar and Gault, but I guess if they don't rate any of those five much then it would make sense.

Like you mentioned Jolly is past his best and Wood doesn't look like making the grade. That leaves three ruck possibilities however I'm not so sure any are as AFL ready as Hickey and that's why there's a chance that Collingwood are interested in him. They certainly have more depth than us.