Why has Ray lost favour ??

[Bernard Shakey]

17 disposals per game for a 26 year old midfielder with 8 years experience is not good enough. Ray looks laconic and is laconic. He lacks intensity and consistency. If he is traded I hope we can get adequate compensation.

laconic is the last word I'd use to describe Ray! He is a running machine, whenever we're kicking it out of defence it seems as though Ray is the only one to be able to make space and get a mark.

He never shows any emotion and looks very laconic to me.

[mad saint guy]

Farren is a handy player who is comfortably in our best 22 currently. I think the issue that the coaches have is that he doesn't really look like becoming a top 15 player, and is standing in the way of Newnes, Ross, Dunell and others for game time.

I like him and hope he stays, but it seems to me that Watters doesn't think he'll be a part of the next great St Kilda team. He's a solid contributor in a great team and could be a leader in a crap team, but may not have a place in a middle of the road side. On one hand, he's a year or two younger than the rest of our core and could provide valuable experience in a few years time, but on the other, he might not still be performing well enough to get a game at age 30-31; therefore playing him ahead of kids in the next few years could be counter-productive.

If we let Ray go, then that would absolutely confirm to me that we will be rebuilding for the next 3 years. If we want to have a crack over the next couple of years then Ray would be part of our best side and we'll keep him.

[tweedaletomanning]

Farren is a handy player who is comfortably in our best 22 currently. I think the issue that the coaches have is that he doesn't really look like becoming a top 15 player, and is standing in the way of Newnes, Ross, Dunell and others for game time.

I like him and hope he stays, but it seems to me that Watters doesn't think he'll be a part of the next great St Kilda team. He's a solid contributor in a great team and could be a leader in a crap team, but may not have a place in a middle of the road side. On one hand, he's a year or two younger than the rest of our core and could provide valuable experience in a few years time, but on the other, he might not still be performing well enough to get a game at age 30-31; therefore playing him ahead of kids in the next few years could be counter-productive.

If we let Ray go, then that would absolutely confirm to me that we will be rebuilding for the next 3 years. If we want to have a crack over the next couple of years then Ray would be part of our best side and we'll keep him.

The plan of having a crack over the next few years was over when we let Goddard walk out the door.

Definitely rebuilding for a top 4 for 2017 or 2018.

If we make a granny in the next 5 years I'll be very shocked.

[St Ick]

When the game is there to be won Ray always steps it up and does something special. He and Lenny are the two you can always rely on for that. I would like to see him stay but if he leave, I just hope we get reasonable compo for him. Judging by the WC school of trading thd fact that he is still contracted may mean we are in like for Melbournes first rounder!

[Superboot]

When the game is there to be won Ray always steps it up and does something special. He and Lenny are the two you can always rely on for that.

Agree 100%, and on one of the occasions when he and Lenny did just that, Ray was dropped for the following game.

[saintspremiers]

Farren is a handy player who is comfortably in our best 22 currently. I think the issue that the coaches have is that he doesn't really look like becoming a top 15 player, and is standing in the way of Newnes, Ross, Dunell and others for game time.

I like him and hope he stays, but it seems to me that Watters doesn't think he'll be a part of the next great St Kilda team. He's a solid contributor in a great team and could be a leader in a crap team, but may not have a place in a middle of the road side. On one hand, he's a year or two younger than the rest of our core and could provide valuable experience in a few years time, but on the other, he might not still be performing well enough to get a game at age 30-31; therefore playing him ahead of kids in the next few years could be counter-productive.

If we let Ray go, then that would absolutely confirm to me that we will be rebuilding for the next 3 years. If we want to have a crack over the next couple of years then Ray would be part of our best side and we'll keep him.

The plan of having a crack over the next few years was over when we let Goddard walk out the door.

Definitely rebuilding for a top 4 for 2017 or 2018.

If we make a granny in the next 5 years I'll be very shocked.

Agree.

I'd be stoked if we made the Top 4 by 2018.

[SaintPav]

Farren is a handy player who is comfortably in our best 22 currently. I think the issue that the coaches have is that he doesn't really look like becoming a top 15 player, and is standing in the way of Newnes, Ross, Dunell and others for game time.

I like him and hope he stays, but it seems to me that Watters doesn't think he'll be a part of the next great St Kilda team. He's a solid contributor in a great team and could be a leader in a crap team, but may not have a place in a middle of the road side. On one hand, he's a year or two younger than the rest of our core and could provide valuable experience in a few years time, but on the other, he might not still be performing well enough to get a game at age 30-31; therefore playing him ahead of kids in the next few years could be counter-productive.

If we let Ray go, then that would absolutely confirm to me that we will be rebuilding for the next 3 years. If we want to have a crack over the next couple of years then Ray would be part of our best side and we'll keep him.

The plan of having a crack over the next few years was over when we let Goddard walk out the door.

Definitely rebuilding for a top 4 for 2017 or 2018.

If we make a granny in the next 5 years I'll be very shocked.

Agree.

I'd be stoked if we made the Top 4 by 2018.

That's in another 6 years. Can't see why we can't do it earlier; plenty of teams have.

[Elvis]

Turns over more balls than a Gold Lotto hostie!

He is actually a good kick imho, but it is what he does with his delivery that is sometimes just horrible. Not easy to teach Old Dogs new tricks, thus his place ahead of our developing talent is tenuous.

[kimberly saint]

Farren is a handy player who is comfortably in our best 22 currently. I think the issue that the coaches have is that he doesn't really look like becoming a top 15 player, and is standing in the way of Newnes, Ross, Dunell and others for game time.

I like him and hope he stays, but it seems to me that Watters doesn't think he'll be a part of the next great St Kilda team. He's a solid contributor in a great team and could be a leader in a crap team, but may not have a place in a middle of the road side. On one hand, he's a year or two younger than the rest of our core and could provide valuable experience in a few years time, but on the other, he might not still be performing well enough to get a game at age 30-31; therefore playing him ahead of kids in the next few years could be counter-productive.

If we let Ray go, then that would absolutely confirm to me that we will be rebuilding for the next 3 years. If we want to have a crack over the next couple of years then Ray would be part of our best side and we'll keep him.

good points about him keeping young lads out, but i think it does not mean we are rebuilding in next 3 years if we trade him or goddard for that fact.
The list needed change and improvement , lets wait and see wat happens with picks and trades first. We may trade ray for martin and goddard pick for brown and stevens or sum one else for that fact, then every one will be saying we can have crack at top four with a new full back and ruckman.
I dont think they have given up on this list yet

[samoht]

Okay - The main reasons I think we should keep Ray -

1. He's a good player, who is very durable and could play an important role (to help the kids develop) when our core group retires .
He won't be turning 30 until 2016 !
The kids need time to develop... it's not as if we can just flick a switch.

2. We have lost some run and carry with Goddard leaving and we will lose more again if Cripps leaves this year. In 2014 (assuming he will be okay next year) we will lose more again if Hayes retires.
Ray does carry the ball !

[bigcarl]

[quote=
The plan of having a crack over the next few years was over when we let Goddard walk out the door.

Definitely rebuilding for a top 4 for 2017 or 2018.

If we make a granny in the next 5 years I'll be very shocked.

A bit defeatist. i hope the club doesn't go into 2013 with that attitude

[Sock Puppet]

Terrific response. Another dopey post from the bloke who went crazy because Walsh couldn't get a go at the Saints. Now Ray is good enough to play for hawthorn even though he cant get a game for the Saints.

Know a bit about football dont you?

I knew it was a matter of time and I hoped that if I'd throw enough bait out there I'd get a bite out of you - and you did not disappoint !
What took you so long ? - you made me work harder this time, but it was still worth it !

Snap! But they love it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Plz9Jxsn ... r_embedded