Congratulations to SW, CP and St.Kilda

This unofficial St Kilda Saints fan forum is for people of all ages to chat Saints Footy and all posts must be respectful.

Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
hungry for a premiership
Club Player
Posts: 856
Joined: Fri 08 Oct 2010 2:01am

Congratulations to SW, CP and St.Kilda

Post: # 1267853Post hungry for a premiership »

I'm very proud that we have a club that is willing make the tough calls when it comes to sticking to its plan to build this club back up to its next tilt at a flag.

Our history is littered with instances of going a bridge too far to retain gun players, of which we have had a plethora, and how has that fared re: premierships?

Let's see what happens to the list in the next 3 months. My gut says we'll be talking about this trade/draft period in glowing tones in the years to come.


"Too big, too strong, too whatever."
User avatar
WinnersOnly
SS Life Member
Posts: 3059
Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 10:24pm
Location: Canberra

Re: Congratulations to SW, CP and St.Kilda

Post: # 1267903Post WinnersOnly »

Here here well done Saints - and good bye Brendon!


SAINTS another day older another day closer to the Holy Grail!
Harvey To Hayes
Club Player
Posts: 719
Joined: Fri 09 Apr 2004 1:04pm
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 31 times

Re: Congratulations to SW, CP and St.Kilda

Post: # 1267974Post Harvey To Hayes »

Yeah brilliant start, losing a #1 draft pick and proven player with a decade's experience for a compensation pick "at the discretion of the AFL" (but WHICH COULD HOPEFULLY BE AS HIGH AS PICK #13!!!), no way we could get screwed on this one...


The future's so bright I've got to wear shades...
spert
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 9153
Joined: Wed 29 Jun 2005 10:39pm
Location: A distant beach
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 438 times

Re: Congratulations to SW, CP and St.Kilda

Post: # 1267979Post spert »

All these supposed star players on the list and no premiership- Watters knows bloody well what he's doing and he and Pelchin look pretty determined to build a premiership team.


gringo
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 12421
Joined: Tue 24 Mar 2009 11:05pm
Location: St Kilda
Has thanked: 296 times
Been thanked: 55 times

Re: Congratulations to SW, CP and St.Kilda

Post: # 1268003Post gringo »

My feeling is all of our improvement this year came from Steven, Armo, Saad etc. the only of our old boys that gave above average service was Milney. Paying big money for low output because of sentimentality doesn't win fans long term. If we continue to pay big dollars while output drops away it's madness.


User avatar
savatage
SS Life Member
Posts: 3799
Joined: Sun 04 Apr 2004 3:43pm
Location: Hollywood

Re: Congratulations to SW, CP and St.Kilda

Post: # 1268006Post savatage »

hungry for a premiership wrote:
Let's see what happens to the list in the next 3 months. My gut says we'll be talking about this trade/draft period in glowing tones in the years to come.
For sure!


Watts the Buzz
Club Player
Posts: 172
Joined: Sun 19 Feb 2012 1:26pm

Re: Congratulations to SW, CP and St.Kilda

Post: # 1268043Post Watts the Buzz »

Agreed, well done STKFC...........really disappointed to lose BJ but the club undoubtedly made the right call in the end.


gurubob101
Club Player
Posts: 103
Joined: Fri 24 Aug 2007 5:56pm

Re: Congratulations to SW, CP and St.Kilda

Post: # 1268056Post gurubob101 »

This sort of list management doesn't deliver premierships! What it does is deliver quality players to other teams. The names Barry Hall, Luke 'Scumbag' Ball, The Wakelins, Dean Rice, Tony Lockett, Val Perovic, Brent Guerra ringing any bells? It's when you're on the winning end of the deal that there's a pay off. Essendon have burned us again!


User avatar
Spinner
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 8502
Joined: Sat 02 Dec 2006 3:40pm
Location: Victoria
Has thanked: 185 times
Been thanked: 133 times

Re: Congratulations to SW, CP and St.Kilda

Post: # 1268063Post Spinner »

I'm trying really hard but struggling to understand Pelchen and the board and some of the trades and negotiations so far.

Polo
Peake
Clarke
Ray

Getting rid of Dawson.

Ross Lyon



Seems like we are losing a lot to 'make the team first'.


cwrcyn
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 4346
Joined: Fri 15 Sep 2006 10:35am
Location: earth
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 1467 times

Re: Congratulations to SW, CP and St.Kilda

Post: # 1268066Post cwrcyn »

Based on the form of the past two years, Fisher, Milne, Hayes, Riewoldt, Montagna, Dal Santo, and Dempster all have a right to ask for as much or even more than Goddard was presumably offered by St Kilda. The Saints management have kept some integrity in relation to contracts this time around, and well done to them.

The gutsy calls are often the least popular amongst fans, but I feel Watters and Pelchen are not going to be knocked off course by an angry mob of disgruntled supporters. Thankfully, they have a medium to long term view of list management, which is a far cry from Mr Lyon's approach. I'll back them to make the right calls for this club. We saw it his year with the recruitment of Saad and Milera, and the game time given to the likes of Newnes, Siposs, & co, that they have the long term in mind.

The easiest thing for this club was to crumble and cough up an unreasonable amount of money to keep a player who is a very good one, but not in the champion league of Hayes and Riewoldt.





.


User avatar
Austinnn
Club Player
Posts: 1533
Joined: Wed 22 Jun 2011 6:02pm
Location: France
Has thanked: 2 times

Re: Congratulations to SW, CP and St.Kilda

Post: # 1268070Post Austinnn »

gringo wrote:My feeling is all of our improvement this year came from Steven, Armo, Saad etc. the only of our old boys that gave above average service was Milney. Paying big money for low output because of sentimentality doesn't win fans long term. If we continue to pay big dollars while output drops away it's madness.
+1
Harvey To Hayes wrote:Yeah brilliant start, losing a #1 draft pick and proven player with a decade's experience for a compensation pick "at the discretion of the AFL" (but WHICH COULD HOPEFULLY BE AS HIGH AS PICK #13!!!), no way we could get screwed on this one...

Yes Goddard went at pick 1. A few years before that Kosi went at Pick 2, and has 2 years more experience, so he must be even better. It's logicity!

The reality is we are trading a very good player at a year past his peak for a potentially very good player that we can expect 10 years of excellent service from. It could go all Jarryd Allen on us , but who's to say? We certainly need less vets and more younger players, ideally another player around the Armitage level or years in the system, but if not younger is fine. We traded now for the future. It's not like Goddard's position is unfillable, because he doesn't really have one. His quality will be missed, that much is sure. But maybe, just maybe we'll get some players that are better than some of the players that played at times this year, and our 2013 squad will actually be stronger.

Eyes turn to Pelchen to make this one a winner. He's the man right now that will make the difference between us looking like smooth operators or hopeless amateurs.
Spinner wrote:I'm trying really hard but struggling to understand Pelchen and the board and some of the trades and negotiations so far.

Polo
Peake
Clarke
Ray


Getting rid of Dawson.

Ross Lyon



Seems like we are losing a lot to 'make the team first'.
I don't get this list of players. Polo Peake and Ray were brought in years before Pelchen arrived, Clarke was a 1st rd draft pick. Polo and Peake have been delisted, Clarke and Ray remain on the list. What is the connection?


Just My Opinion
------------------------------------------------

You'll Never Walk Alone
Stillwaiting
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 4432
Joined: Sun 25 May 2008 5:39pm

Re: Congratulations to SW, CP and St.Kilda

Post: # 1268080Post Stillwaiting »

gurubob101 wrote:This sort of list management doesn't deliver premierships! What it does is deliver quality players to other teams. The names Barry Hall, Luke 'Scumbag' Ball, The Wakelins, Dean Rice, Tony Lockett, Val Perovic, Brent Guerra ringing any bells? It's when you're on the winning end of the deal that there's a pay off. Essendon have burned us again!
Most of those players left well before Pelchem or watters came to the club. Hall and lockett went to Sydney which was funded by the afl and given much more leeway in salary cap that we could not afford. Also we played in gf's not long after they left. Rice and ball went to massive amounts of money and in balls case the filthvwere allowed to rort the draft without the afl doing anything about it. Not sure about your comparisons. But if you want to compare this type of list management as you call it well pelchen was largely responsible for putting together the lists together that won port and hawthorn flags. So let's just hope he is that unsucsesful with us!!


I love this club
kaos theory
Club Player
Posts: 1521
Joined: Sun 14 Mar 2004 8:38pm
Been thanked: 25 times

Re: Congratulations to SW, CP and St.Kilda

Post: # 1268083Post kaos theory »

gurubob101 wrote:This sort of list management doesn't deliver premierships! What it does is deliver quality players to other teams. The names Barry Hall, Luke 'Scumbag' Ball, The Wakelins, Dean Rice, Tony Lockett, Val Perovic, Brent Guerra ringing any bells? It's when you're on the winning end of the deal that there's a pay off. Essendon have burned us again!
LOL! 4 yrs for a 27 yo at ~$800/yr....for a player that has done nothing in the last two yrs? We dodged a bullet, that's what happened.


SainterK
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 21057
Joined: Thu 14 Aug 2008 9:53pm
Location: Melb

Re: Congratulations to SW, CP and St.Kilda

Post: # 1268091Post SainterK »

Austinnn wrote:I don't get this list of players. Polo Peake and Ray were brought in years before Pelchen arrived, Clarke was a 1st rd draft pick. Polo and Peake have been delisted, Clarke and Ray remain on the list. What is the connection?
He gave them new contracts late last year


thejiggingsaint
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 9373
Joined: Wed 03 Aug 2005 10:01pm
Has thanked: 662 times
Been thanked: 498 times

Re: Congratulations to SW, CP and St.Kilda

Post: # 1268103Post thejiggingsaint »

I have very mixed emotions on this. I'm sad to see B J Goddard leaving the club, and wish him nothing but good luck and thanks for all your efforts of the last ten years. On the other hand, I heard Scotty Watters speaking on 774 this afternoon and to hear his views expressed in such a calm and measured way, gave me a lot of optimism about where we are headed as a club.
Thanks for everything Brendon, and ONYA Scott Watters!


St Kilda forever 🔴⚪️⚫️ ( God help me)
gringo
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 12421
Joined: Tue 24 Mar 2009 11:05pm
Location: St Kilda
Has thanked: 296 times
Been thanked: 55 times

Re: Congratulations to SW, CP and St.Kilda

Post: # 1268104Post gringo »

Brisbane is actually still paying for their hanging on to the past thinking they could top up for a reload and paying overs to their stars of yesteryear and not being proactive in forward planning. Under the Lyon team we ran our list down and need to be very careful that in 3 years time we don't basket case like the Lions. This is a way of getting in some talent now for the day when the stormy weather arrives. Goddard gave us heaps but at the end of the day we probably needed to lose a top liner, Goddard is the highest profile with the least output unfortunately. Rooey is a forward with a huge marquee status and had a good year. Montagna isn't worth much because of his lower profile, Fisher is under rated elite and Dal is too important as a ball user.


thejiggingsaint
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 9373
Joined: Wed 03 Aug 2005 10:01pm
Has thanked: 662 times
Been thanked: 498 times

Re: Congratulations to SW, CP and St.Kilda

Post: # 1268106Post thejiggingsaint »

Excellent points Gringo


St Kilda forever 🔴⚪️⚫️ ( God help me)
User avatar
bobmurray
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 7937
Joined: Mon 03 Oct 2005 11:08pm
Location: In the stand at RSEA Park.
Has thanked: 549 times
Been thanked: 254 times

Re: Congratulations to SW, CP and St.Kilda

Post: # 1268112Post bobmurray »

If Carlton hadn't have cheated we wouldn't have had Greedard anyway, so whilst we did OK with him he did have his flaws and now we move on...And so does he....

that is the new system...hopefully we reload well....or....we could do a Melbourne and muck it up completely....


How many defenders will The Saints pick in the 2024 draft ? :lol:
gringo
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 12421
Joined: Tue 24 Mar 2009 11:05pm
Location: St Kilda
Has thanked: 296 times
Been thanked: 55 times

Re: Congratulations to SW, CP and St.Kilda

Post: # 1268117Post gringo »

bobmurray wrote:If Carlton hadn't have cheated we wouldn't have had Greedard anyway, so whilst we did OK with him he did have his flaws and now we move on...And so does he....

that is the new system...hopefully we reload well....or....we could do a Melbourne and muck it up completely....

The thing is we did very nicely in the days of priority picks because with a first round pick you could grab 2 elite juniors and if one stable conservative pick wasn't a gun you could still grab one of the exciting speculative ones and didn't stress as much. This pick might get us a stable Jaksche to hold down full back for 12 years and Stringer who looks like a Darling type who could just blow away expectations early. they don't necessarily have to be those players but could really reload us long term. I couldn't see where you get the next Rooy from but this is a way we could potentially.

Pelchen said we are well placed for the draft and trade period. I have a feeling he is going to be very active in pinpointing players we need and getting them in the door. I have faith in his record of list enhancement.


BringBackMadDog
SS Hall of Fame
Posts: 1968
Joined: Thu 05 Aug 2004 9:29am
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 137 times

Re: Congratulations to SW, CP and St.Kilda

Post: # 1268125Post BringBackMadDog »

gurubob101 wrote:This sort of list management doesn't deliver premierships! What it does is deliver quality players to other teams. The names Barry Hall, Luke 'Scumbag' Ball, The Wakelins, Dean Rice, Tony Lockett, Val Perovic, Brent Guerra ringing any bells? It's when you're on the winning end of the deal that there's a pay off. Essendon have burned us again!
Yep, essendon really burned us, especially as BJ has won their last 3 B&F's and kicked the winning goals in their back to back premierships, oh wait.............


Megsie
Club Player
Posts: 358
Joined: Thu 02 Dec 2010 5:47pm

Re: Congratulations to SW, CP and St.Kilda

Post: # 1268139Post Megsie »

Now it's your time to shine Arryn Siposs. Bask in the glory with your young
teammates & show the footy world it doesn't end with one departure & a bucket full of money.


villasaint
Club Player
Posts: 297
Joined: Sat 10 Jul 2004 11:27pm

Re: Congratulations to SW, CP and St.Kilda

Post: # 1268175Post villasaint »

We now have compensation and room to move when it comes to trade time. I'm sure they already have weaknesses and possible targets in mind and the extra cap room plus comp allows us to offer some thing in return,preferably for a rising 20 to 24 year old. Might even be able to pay two players for what BJ would have got and three year contracts instead of four.


TJMcCarthy
Club Player
Posts: 134
Joined: Sat 04 Feb 2012 10:10pm
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Congratulations to SW, CP and St.Kilda

Post: # 1268209Post TJMcCarthy »

IMO to win a premiership you must find players who are deadly by foot. BJ is deadly by foot. Saints must fill this quality skill gap IMMEDIATELY!


Strength Through Unity - CAR'N THE SAINTS!
Moods
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 4951
Joined: Fri 05 Jun 2009 3:05pm
Has thanked: 343 times
Been thanked: 497 times

Re: Congratulations to SW, CP and St.Kilda

Post: # 1268211Post Moods »

I agree with the majority of sentiments on here. Loved BJ - but he was giving us less in the last couple of years and expected more from the club in terms of money. Incredible really, and I for one stand by what the club did 100%


User avatar
andrewg
Club Player
Posts: 1103
Joined: Sat 03 Sep 2011 6:38pm

Re: Congratulations to SW, CP and St.Kilda

Post: # 1268212Post andrewg »

Brendan Greedard (love the new nick) going is a turning point for the club. Hard to let go of our old faves but the future is exciting


Post Reply