Brendon Goddard set to sign with Essendon

[evertonfc]

I've got no qualms with letting him walk.

We need to be very clear that St Kilda is now a place where you come to be part of the culture and success, and to be part of that, you have to give up something.

If you are a player - be it in the draft or under free agency - why would you want to come to St Kilda right now? We have to actually have a successful culture before this strategy works...

We embarked on the most earth-shuddering recruiting campaign imaginable at the end of 2000 - Gehrig, Hamill, Voss, Callaghan, Lawrence, Capuano and Blight - when the club was at its lowest ebb in decades.

Money will ALWAYS sing louder, regardless of the culture.

The trick is not to be the club who can offer the most money but to be the club to who can offer the best culture. I'm not really into grabbing stars from other clubs if they aren't good value.

Kevin Sheedy had it spot on when he said this on AFL360: "The Swans are in the grand final because they're the best traders in the competition."

It's not about about picking guns when they're 'up' - they're almost always overpriced. It's about what talent is out there that can lift our club to elite levels for the right price. It's about knowing your own list, what deficiencies you have and going accordingly.

At the moment the message being sent suggests that even if you are an elite player, don't expect to get compensated accordingly.

The message it sends is that we won't pay over the odds.

The message it sends is that we will put the club before the individual.

The message it sends is our pursuit of success can't be lumped on a guy turning 28 next year who wants a four-year deal worth $3.2 million and who hasn't played well for two years.

[saintspremiers]

BJ's heart left St. Kilda after the GF Draw.

Said but true. I wish him all the best at Essendon as he played way below his potential the last two seasons.

[plugger66]

Robbo reported BJ wanted to sit down and discuss a fourth year with conditions met in the third.

That doesn't sound like an unreasonable starting point for a discussion.

Apparently the club flat out said no.

That doesn't sound so reasonable to me.

It certainly looks like the club didn't want him, forget the offer, 3 x 475 when he was paid more previously is an insult.
He would have earnt more money if he sat out injured last year and got the surgery in round 2, it doesn't pay playing through pain.
You have to suffer through much pain barracking for this club.
I feel I have cursed my kids.

It's never over til it's over, but imagine if we matched the offer now, how stupid would we look?



I heard and have written that the club were happy to lose him. It seems the club would have kept him but completely on our terms. maybe they just see a player who had one top 3 B&F finish in 10 years and think their offer was good enough for that type of player. I like BJ as a player but to me he hasnt been a world beater since the GF 2 full seasons ago. ZNothing is going to change your mind and you will find reporters to suit your argument and nothing is going to change my mind and I will probably do the same with reporters. Anyway I was resigned to losing BJ about 5 weeks ago.

People get reduced contracts all the time. His contract ended after 2 ordinary years. He didnt deserve a pay rise due to form. Lenny just won a B&F and Milney was AA for the second year in a row. My guess would be they are on the same or less than the previous year. Yes they are older but certainly in Lennys case he is in better form than BJ and by some way. Bet BJ was offered more than Lenny next year. But should he be? 500K for 3 years is very good money and it sounds like as much as any Geelong player has ever earned.

[mbogo]

I would not think we should be paying him 800K - I believe it should never have been allowed to go to FA.
We sat on our hands when we perhaps could have offered 500-600 over 4 years.
Just another loss for us - some imaginary star from the draft will hardly compensate.

[3rd generation saint]

Sorry to see BJ go, but as far as the club goes, they made him a very generous offer and BJ didn't want it. To his credit he tried a compromise, but the club is sticking to it's guns.
If BJ really wanted to stay, he would have talken the 3 year deal.
But as I said elsewhere, Essendon are going to have to off load a couple of reasonable players, last night 7 news said Hille, Hooker and Pears may have to make way in order to fit BJ in the salary cap.
To me that's a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul, you lose as much as you gain.
As for the talk of Salopek, well just remember, if it wasn't for Carlscum cooking the books, he would have already been a St.Kilda player.

[maverick]

Robbo reported BJ wanted to sit down and discuss a fourth year with conditions met in the third.

That doesn't sound like an unreasonable starting point for a discussion.

Apparently the club flat out said no.

That doesn't sound so reasonable to me.

It certainly looks like the club didn't want him, forget the offer, 3 x 475 when he was paid more previously is an insult.
He would have earnt more money if he sat out injured last year and got the surgery in round 2, it doesn't pay playing through pain.
You have to suffer through much pain barracking for this club.
I feel I have cursed my kids.

It's never over til it's over, but imagine if we matched the offer now, how stupid would we look?



I heard and have written that the club were happy to lose him. It seems the club would have kept him but completely on our terms. maybe they just see a player who had one top 3 B&F finish in 10 years and think their offer was good enough for that type of player. I like BJ as a player but to me he hasnt been a world beater since the GF 2 full seasons ago. ZNothing is going to change your mind and you will find reporters to suit your argument and nothing is going to change my mind and I will probably do the same with reporters. Anyway I was resigned to losing BJ about 5 weeks ago.

People get reduced contracts all the time. His contract ended after 2 ordinary years. He didnt deserve a pay rise due to form. Lenny just won a B&F and Milney was AA for the second year in a row. My guess would be they are on the same or less than the previous year. Yes they are older but certainly in Lennys case he is in better form than BJ and by some way. Bet BJ was offered more than Lenny next year. But should he be? 500K for 3 years is very good money and it sounds like as much as any Geelong player has ever earned.

Bombers think he is worth more.

[battye]

The message it sends is that we won't pay over the odds.

Because if you're an employee, it's music to your ears that your employer is not generous.

The message it sends is that we will put the club before the individual.

If you're a star player seeking a club to play at, how is this an incentive? You said it yourself, money will always sing louder. Having a culture of not paying star players what they are worth is not going to be the carrot which gets a star player to St Kilda.

The message it sends is our pursuit of success can't be lumped on a guy turning 28 next year who wants a four-year deal worth $3.2 million and who hasn't played well for two years.

In four years time, which other star players will be at the club besides Goddard? It's a stubborn, short-sighted approach St Kilda has taken. Who is going to usher in the next generation of players once Hayes, Fisher, Riewoldt, etc have left? Goddard is in the prime age range to do that, but instead we've opted for the "two in the bush" instead of the one in our hands. Invariably in St Kilda's history, the two in the bush have been duds or Andrew Lovett.

[SainterK]

Agree Battye

+1

[evertonfc]

Who's it going to be for Ev?

Who is going to be the kind of players we target and bring in for peanuts?

Not convinced even the Geelongs and Hawks of the comp will be able to maintain this 'everyone is equal' stance anymore

A ruckman, KPP or decent mid comes on the FA market moving forward....what makes us think they'll come to us?

Rather than looking at this with mist in our eyes and being blinded by the 'star' power, let's look at the facts.

Goddard is a wonderful half-back flanker on his day but he doesn't hold down a KPP. Ball getting backmen who get easy kicks? They're pretty easy to find. What set Goddard apart was his superb disposal.

Now, I'm not saying we can replace Goddard as a player like-for-like. No way.

However, if he's a 8.5/10 player, I'm pretty sure we can find a 7/10 player (with potential improvement to come) either on the market or on our list for roughly half the price.

That spare money could be invested into what we really need. What we really need in defence is a genuine KPP player. Somebody to help Sam Fisher against the serious forwards.

My view is not about emotion; it's about winning. If we can get two 7/10 defenders (one a sweeper, one a KPP defender) for the money that Goddard was on, or a little over, I'd say that's a huge win for us.

Remember, it's only the top few who earn amazing money.

The rest - the hacks, the has-beens, the up-and-comers, the future stars - alll earn between $150,000 to $400,000. It's in that bracket where we have to go hard to find what we are after.

I'd rather get enough players to fill the roles we need over the odd overpaid star, whose salary has leapfrogged under free agency.

[plugger66]

The message it sends is that we won't pay over the odds.

Because if you're an employee, it's music to your ears that your employer is not generous.

The message it sends is that we will put the club before the individual.

If you're a star player seeking a club to play at, how is this an incentive? You said it yourself, money will always sing louder. Having a culture of not paying star players what they are worth is not going to be the carrot which gets a star player to St Kilda.

The message it sends is our pursuit of success can't be lumped on a guy turning 28 next year who wants a four-year deal worth $3.2 million and who hasn't played well for two years.

In four years time, which other star players will be at the club besides Goddard? It's a stubborn, short-sighted approach St Kilda has taken. Who is going to usher in the next generation of players once Hayes, Fisher, Riewoldt, etc have left? Goddard is in the prime age range to do that, but instead we've opted for the "two in the bush" instead of the one in our hands. Invariably in St Kilda's history, the two in the bush have been duds or Andrew Lovett.

You really think a player wont come to us because we didnt pay a guy with one top 3 finish in a B&F in 10 years a 4 year contract and 600K a year. I doubt one player in the competition would even slightly think that way. Wouldnt even slightly cross their mind. There is certainly more chance had we paid money like that to BJ that some of our corrent players will be pissed off.

[joffaboy]

Who's it going to be for Ev?

Who is going to be the kind of players we target and bring in for peanuts?

Not convinced even the Geelongs and Hawks of the comp will be able to maintain this 'everyone is equal' stance anymore

A ruckman, KPP or decent mid comes on the FA market moving forward....what makes us think they'll come to us?

Rather than looking at this with mist in our eyes and being blinded by the 'star' power, let's look at the facts.

Goddard is a wonderful half-back flanker on his day but he doesn't hold down a KPP. Ball getting backmen who get easy kicks? They're pretty easy to find. What set Goddard apart was his superb disposal.

Now, I'm not saying we can replace Goddard as a player like-for-like. No way.

However, if he's a 8.5/10 player, I'm pretty sure we can find a 7/10 player (with potential improvement to come) either on the market or on our list for roughly half the price.

That spare money could be invested into what we really need. What we really need in defence is a genuine KPP player. Somebody to help Sam Fisher against the serious forwards.

My view is not about emotion; it's about winning. If we can get two 7/10 defenders (one a sweeper, one a KPP defender) for the money that Goddard was on, or a little over, I'd say that's a huge win for us.

Remember, it's only the top few who earn amazing money.

The rest - the hacks, the has-beens, the up-and-comers, the future stars - alll earn between $150,000 to $400,000. It's in that bracket where we have to go hard to find what we are after.

I'd rather get enough players to fill the roles we need over the odd overpaid star, whose salary has leapfrogged under free agency.

+1

Great objective post.

[3rd generation saint]

Another thing that they hate with all this is the inevitable so called supporter who calls up (on Sen about 1.30 today) and spouts off how he wont be a member and the club is stupid if it doesn't match the offer.
The club is bigger than the player, and that has been a cultural problem at St.Kilda for a long time, we worship our players, not our teams.
This is understandable due to our lack of success, but it is the team culture we have to build.
20 years ago Sydney was a basket case, 10 years ago Geelong we're ordinary, hell in 1996 Hawthorn and Melbourne almost merged.
Just remember, the guy doing our list mangement and recruiting is the same guy that helped put that Hawthorn team on the field Saturday.
You can already give him credit with Saad and Mileera.
This one October I'm actually excited about to see who we recruit, because it might be the start of that window being forced open again.

[evertonfc]

Invariably in St Kilda's history, the two in the bush have been duds or Andrew Lovett.

If we are doomed to repeat history, we may as well give up following this club.

It is the history that should teach us that while we have had more stars than we care to know, we've rarely had great teams.

For what it's worth, this talk of being worried that St Kilda isn't a club that pays fairly is hogwash.

AFL rules stipulate you must pay between 92.5% and 100% of the Salary Cap. So we are required by AFL law to spend the money on players whether we want to or not. Besides, we might have been the first club to pay a player $1m per season when we re-signed Riewoldt to that massive deal.

The question is not whether we pay our players enough; this point is redundant by the above AFL requirement (we pay as close as possible to 100% BTW).

The question is how we manage our salary cap, and how we engineer outcomes that can make us perennially competitive through creating a team-first culture that has (unfortunately) seldom existed.

Another thing that they hate with all this is the inevitable so called supporter who calls up (on Sen about 1.30 today) and spouts off how he wont be a member and the club is stupid if it doesn't match the offer.

Here's some information for that fellow:

http://www.essendonfc.com.au/club/contact.asp
For all Membership enquiries please call: 1300 GO BOMBERS or email membership@essendonfc.com.au

[Dis Believer]

Welcome to the age of Moneyball.

As someone wisely said a little earlier in this thread - it's not about emotional ties to stars, it's not about being fair with salaries - it's about managing our list to our best outcome.

[SinCitySainter]

All this talk of take less to be part of a successful winning culture is pure rhetoric. We have not won a Premiership for over 40 years. We have had the worst off field scandals of pretty much every club of the last few years. We have a history of letting our top players leave for more money elsewhere and paying huge money to average footballers. Watching our club is like amateur hour. No we shouldn’t have offered him $800K a year but we should have offered him 500K to 600K per annum for three years with a conditional fourth. If we are losing him just because we refused to entertain the notion of a fourth year then we are just being churlish.

[maverick]

Who's it going to be for Ev?

Who is going to be the kind of players we target and bring in for peanuts?

Not convinced even the Geelongs and Hawks of the comp will be able to maintain this 'everyone is equal' stance anymore

A ruckman, KPP or decent mid comes on the FA market moving forward....what makes us think they'll come to us?

Rather than looking at this with mist in our eyes and being blinded by the 'star' power, let's look at the facts.

Goddard is a wonderful half-back flanker on his day but he doesn't hold down a KPP. Ball getting backmen who get easy kicks? They're pretty easy to find. What set Goddard apart was his superb disposal.

Now, I'm not saying we can replace Goddard as a player like-for-like. No way.

However, if he's a 8.5/10 player, I'm pretty sure we can find a 7/10 player (with potential improvement to come) either on the market or on our list for roughly half the price.

That spare money could be invested into what we really need. What we really need in defence is a genuine KPP player. Somebody to help Sam Fisher against the serious forwards.

My view is not about emotion; it's about winning. If we can get two 7/10 defenders (one a sweeper, one a KPP defender) for the money that Goddard was on, or a little over, I'd say that's a huge win for us.

Remember, it's only the top few who earn amazing money.

The rest - the hacks, the has-beens, the up-and-comers, the future stars - alll earn between $150,000 to $400,000. It's in that bracket where we have to go hard to find what we are after.

I'd rather get enough players to fill the roles we need over the odd overpaid star, whose salary has leapfrogged under free agency.

Look that is all very well and good, but who is out there as a key defender.
I don't see much personally.

[evertonfc]

Welcome to the age of Moneyball.

As someone wisely said a little earlier in this thread - it's not about emotional ties to stars, it's not about being fair with salaries - it's about managing our list to our best outcome.

It is sad in some respects but it is due - and it's something we can take advantage of.

However, the age Moneyball should also give rise to things salary cannot buy, such as club which create cultures that are priceless, and where players feel as though they are part of something a whole lot greater than a club that gives them a weekly salary.

Remember, we'd all die to spent five minutes in a St Kilda jersey. Those who get to walk in it shouldn't ever forget that.

To play for St Kilda has to be more than a job. If you're not in it for us, you're not really the right fit. Put the club first and the rewards will come.

[evertonfc]

Look that is all very well and good, but who is out there as a key defender.
I don't see much personally.

For starters, I'd have tabled a strong offer to Troy Chaplin. He'll command a non-stupid price and can play KPP defence for the next five years.

And as a bargain-priced back-up (ie: we could get him for $80,000 and pick 108) I'd be looking at Matt Spangher. He's a very capable utility from Sydney whose game time has been limited by some outstanding performers around him.

[maverick]

Look that is all very well and good, but who is out there as a key defender.
I don't see much personally.

For starters, I'd have tabled a strong offer to Troy Chaplin. He'll command a non-stupid price and can play KPP defence for the next five years.

But if we go for a free agent we lose pick 13, we have to trade or draft one for next year, that's the issue.
If we trade say Cripps for Brown and a 3rd round pick for sweeteners if thats what it takes and end up with Caddy and Hickey for pick 13 we may come out all right.

[markp]

All of a sudden he wanted $800k x 4.

Unfortunately we'll never know what he would've taken x 4, coz we only offered him $475k x 3, not negotiable.

[evertonfc]

Look that is all very well and good, but who is out there as a key defender.
I don't see much personally.

For starters, I'd have tabled a strong offer to Troy Chaplin. He'll command a non-stupid price and can play KPP defence for the next five years.

But if we go for a free agent we lose pick 13, we have to trade or draft one for next year, that's the issue.

Pick 13 or Chaplin? I'm going with Chaplin. He can play a massive role in holding our defence together while we build the other parts of the team.

If we stuck with pick 13, I'd consider Bret Thornton. Similar to how we did with Steven King while we developed Ben McEvoy, he could fill the gap until we can have our own defenders ready to stand up.

I'm less inclined to go for Jared Rivers. Fine player, but he'll be seeking exceptional coin.

[plugger66]

All of a sudden he wanted $800k x 4.

Unfortunately we'll never know what he would've taken x 4, coz we only offered him $475k x 3, not negotiable.

Why isnt it 1.9 million over 3 years that was reported 2 weeks ago?

[markp]

All of a sudden he wanted $800k x 4.

Unfortunately we'll never know what he would've taken x 4, coz we only offered him $475k x 3, not negotiable.

Why isnt it 1.9 million over 3 years that was reported 2 weeks ago?

Do you even believe that?

You said yourself it wasn't a great deal but it reflected his form at the time, then they refused to alter it when his form improved.

[SainterK]

Pick 13 or Chaplin? I'm going with Chaplin. He can play a massive role in holding our defence together while we build the other parts of the team.

If we stuck with pick 13, I'd consider Bret Thornton. Similar to how we did with Steven King while we developed Ben McEvoy, he could fill the gap until we can have our own defenders ready to stand up.

I'm less inclined to go for Jared Rivers. Fine player, but he'll be seeking exceptional coin.

Trade Radio‏@traderadio

Pickering says Chaplin has nominated Richmond as his club of choice and the paperwork is with the AFL as we speak #AFLTrades

[plugger66]

All of a sudden he wanted $800k x 4.

Unfortunately we'll never know what he would've taken x 4, coz we only offered him $475k x 3, not negotiable.

Why isnt it 1.9 million over 3 years that was reported 2 weeks ago?

Do you even believe that?

You said yourself it wasn't a great deal but it reflected his form at the time, then they refused to alter it when his form improved.

I actually have no idea but I did say we would both find articles to suit our positions.