Brendon Goddard set to sign with Essendon

[Dis Believer]

Everyone sems to forget that the brave new world of free agency means that, by it's very nature. the star players that move clubs wil be getting paid overs to do so. This will hamper clubs SC wise that are contenders as you would expect them to have a pretty good list already, and not have a lot of SC room.

Clubs that are out of contention will be better placed to secure those stars, but will it then hamper them in assembling a list that can be a contender?

Throwing megabucks at one player is short-sighted as long as there is a salary cap. I would rather we set a standard that we adhere to from here that sees us able to have a full compliment of rookies, have a balanced list, and have a lit "wriggle" room in our SC if we want to chase a player. The days of what some have called a "pyramid" structure to our player payments need to end if we want sustainable long term success for our club that is not driven by the star efforts of a few.

I know people are pissed at losing BJ when we have Kosi and Gram on new contracts next year, but those options were already inked a while back and they are not an issue after next year. I thinnk we are seeing a najor shift in how our club conducts itself, and I think it is a positive step. I don't want to lose BJ either, but if that is the short term pain for a long term gain of building a list that players WANT to be part of, even for less dough, then I will live with it.

As someone else pointed out, it looked very much like BJ mentally resigned himself to the fact that this list wasn't going to wiina flag after 2010. If that's how he feels, both parties are better off for the parting, even if it doesn't feel like that right now.

[SainterK]

What makes you think people will stay for less dough in a FA market TB?

If I was at the club, letting BJ go wouldn't be convincing me that it was desperate again to be in contention, I'd be thinking it's resigned itself to rebuilding.

So why did they bother keeping Dal, Joey, Roo, Lenny, Milne etc?

The message is mixed to me...

[kaos theory]

Don't let the truth or facts get in the way of a defence argument mounted by apologists

First Ball was hopeless

Then Lyon was over rated

Dawson was useless

Next we know Goddard will be no good?!

I actually watched the 2010 GF the other day..... Is he worth 700.... Don't see why not.... Very few players have his flexibility, footskills, smarts and are proven big game performers at peak age......If Essendon will pay it for him Guess he is ... Hang on, I suppose the Bombers hierarchy are stupid, remember they stupidly traded pick 16 to us for a gun.
Lovett ---- pick 16
Goddard ----- pick 13

Sounds fair

I was at that gf and I saw goddard do great things.....I aslo saw another guy do great things too on that day, not as flashy, but dragged us back into the game and kicked a clutch goal, normally out of his range.....he won the norm smith that day....

Also that other player, even with a potential career ending knee injury came back and performed brilliantly all this year, basically he pants goddard for effort and output. So is this other player anywhere near the contract that goddard is getting/demanded?

One great game in two yrs, doesn't justify what goodard is asking to be paid.

[Saints43]

I see that. I just cant see how the Senior Coach isint the top of the pack. Senior Coach should be IMO.

Because some senior coaches spend the clubs money on players like Peake, Smith, Polo, Lovett, Pattison etc.

Being a good coach and being a good list manager won't always come in the same package.

[Dis Believer]

What makes you think people will stay for less dough in a FA market TB?

If I was at the club, letting BJ go wouldn't be convincing me that it was desperate again to be in contention, I'd be thinking it's resigned itself to rebuilding.

So why did they bother keeping Dal, Joey, Roo, Lenny, Milne etc?

The message is mixed to me...

Because none of those players are demanding huge money and long term deals to stay, that's why they are still there. Not a mixed message at all. THe messgae is clearly we are a tem, and everyone gets their fair share of the salary pie. Some top rated players will have a bigger share than mid-rated senior players who will be on more than junior players, but there is a limit to what any one player can demand beofer it affects ther rest of the list. If it was up to me, Roo would never have received what he did. Although it was front ended, it was way too much, although probably prompted by GC coming on the scene. Having said that, at least he plays key position.

I realise BJ going probably upsets you K, but I think you're looking for conspiracy where therre is none. I think BJ probably believed the flag chance was gone with this group and he should probably grab the dollars in his last 4 or 5 years while he can. Note that Siposs suddenly bobbed up at HB towards the end of the season - no coincidence there, I reckon the club already had a pretty good idea what was going to happen. I think that they have set the values and the contract terms they were prepared to offer and knew that BJ wouldn't accept that. Given the SC position that Watters inherited, I don't blame him for wanting it to be run better.

[SinCitySainter]

The really good thing here is watch the Collingwoods and Carltons of this world rubbing their hands together as they paw over our playing list. Those Saints won't mind if we take their best player, get in their players ear mid-season, they are an easy target. Well we show yet again as we did with Plugger, Hall, Ball and numerous others that we are an easy target.

[St. Luke]

Hate to see him go but also equally excited at the prospect of picking up another promising youngster. I think we're more about development than topping up these days. Certainly with the caliber of the senior players they've got some terrific role models and work ethics available to them. Promising future for the Saints.

[The Redeemer]

The really good thing here is watch the Collingwoods and Carltons of this world rubbing their hands together as they paw over our playing list. Those Saints won't mind if we take their best player, get in their players ear mid-season, they are an easy target. Well we show yet again as we did with Plugger, Hall, Ball and numerous others that we are an easy target.

This has always been in the back of my mind and I think that some supporters have a bit of an inferiority complex due to our lowly history.

I would rather Goddard stay. If the issue is purely regarding performance based incentives for a 4th year then I would make the deal and keep him here. I am not in a position to actually make that decision though...

People get wet dreams over draft picks. It is almost as if draft picks are plain sexier than a 25 year old A-Grade player who is looking to move clubs for whatever reason...

Go figure?

[Dis Believer]

Would all of those who are saying we should throw everything we've got at keeping Goddard be happy to STFU in two years when we lose the like of Seb Ross or Dunnell or whoever because we chose to pay BJ $700k per year and can't afford to pay our young guns enough to keep them???

Paying BJ $750k per year is all well and good, but when he's a 30 year old on $750k and playihng in a team of 15 Peakes anbd Polo's because that's all we can afford, will you still be happy when we're not winning s***?

If Essendon are paying him $800k per year, let them. That's nearly 10% of their salary cap on one player, and their already having to carve up their list to fit him in. It's a ticket to mediocrity in two years time as his teammates get sick of not being on more than $200k per year to accommodate his wage and leave to greener pastures.

Remember, with a SC of $8.8m and 38 players on the list, that is an average of $235k. That means 5 other players on half the average wage to pay for him.

If the numbers are correct, I think the bumbers are insane, but it couldn't happen to a nicer team.

[SainterK]

I wish people would stop twisting words.

I have never said throw everything at him...

I've only said try to meet him a little of the way, but we haven't budged, not even pretended to try.

There is such a thing as meeting half way, loyalty certainly works both ways.

Knowing the Saints, they probably promised him more last contract negotiations 'we'll pay you more when Roo's contract dwindles down, don't worry'

We'll regret this bigtime, bookmark it.

[The OtherThommo]

So our whole team performance for the last 5 years has been because of goddard? If no one else could hit a target, goodard must be the greatest footballer in the entire history of the game to lift the saints to some pretty good levels. we should have paid him $5mill/year and the rest split between all the other hacks in our team.

Somewhere in the middle...

BJ finally get's moved in the midfield this season....Rd 15 wasn't it....that he'd 'earned his turn' or something?

Suddenly has a ridiculous amount of score involvements as he used the ball very well and hit targets forward of centre.

All this talk about him not being able to win his own ball anymore is rubbish, averaged one less contested possession per game than Jude Bolton, David Mundy....and someone else I can't quite remember now.

Sure he hasn't been in his best form, but Watters can take some of the responsibility for that....and that's not a knock at Scott at all, I think he wants him, and was trying to mould him into what he wants him to be.

I think Scott sees him in his plans, it's not in his control though....

I reckon his performances were mixed when he was moved to play predominantly midfield. It was during that period when he let Sam Wright get under his skin against North and render himself largely ineffective in what was a season defining game for us. Not only did he let Wright control him, he had a dummy spit behind play and copped a 2 week suspension. While he was stiff because of Wright's theatrics, he still left himself in a position where he would be judged for an act behind play. Other clubs know they can get under his skin, and they do, particularly when he is in the midfield (e.g. Jordie McKenzie).
He missed the Essendon and Brisbane games after the suspension and we won both. He was great against Collingwood but I don't recall too many other dominant midfield displays in the latter part of the year. He was moved forward a fair bit because he wasn't winning enough of the midfield ball, and was tending to drift back. For the time he spent forward he offered difference, without impacting the scoreboard a lot.

I reckon Scott used the latter part of the year to assess Bj's capability to consistently provide quality midfield ball. I think he's done that and I don't reckon the offer is any way devoid of Scott's input. I think you'll find that under that woolly noggin and affable demeanour, Scott Watters is a tough, strategic thinker.

I just think they've made an assessment of his value to us and offered accordingly. Essendon are clutching at whatever straws they can, because they had another second half collapse. They want some polish and figure they're OK for KPP's and ruckmen. We're not, and the relative value of BJ doesn't hold up for us vs them, given our need to address some list issues wrt players who not like BJ.

It's also interesting to me that the field came down to Essendon pretty quickly. I think there are a few other clubs who reckon our offer was about right. Carlton faded like Essendon, missed Cloke, so I reckon they would have assessed BJ as an option. Other clubs around about, like Richmond, North, even Geelong, would have done their sums. They all baulked. He's worth more to Essendon, obviously.

It's just been announced that the Essendon offer has been lodged under FA.

[saint75]

I wish people would stop twisting words.

I have never said throw everything at him...

I've only said try to meet him a little of the way, but we haven't budged, not even pretended to try.

There is such a thing as meeting half way, loyalty certainly works both ways.

Knowing the Saints, they probably promised him more last contract negotiations 'we'll pay you more when Roo's contract dwindles down, don't worry'

We'll regret this bigtime, bookmark it.

SainterK, we don't know whether the club has budged or what has been offered to BJ. It is all purely speculation.

I still don't think he will go. Call me naive, but I still think he will be a saint for life. Both sides of the party are testing the waters hoping to get the best deal. Like selling a house, you don't go in with your best offer. As a vendor, unless you are desperate, you also counter.

Think you need to back off the club. You are making a lot of suppositions with no factual evidence to back it up. If you know someone from either party, I will stand corrected and apologise.

[matrix]

well saint75 i hope youre right
maybe its all smoke and mirrors and all bluff

but i have a feeling the pelch and the smurf are playing hardball
no offer will be matched i dont reckon

id love him to stay a saint for life
but cant see it happening

see ya bj
hopefully we roll your new team in the grannie in two or three years time

[Scollop]

We played hardball with BJ and with his management and we had to do that if we wanted to control the bidding war.

I don't think we will regret losing BJ and we shouldn't be paying anyone on our current list anywhere near that sort of dough. He is replaceable. It's a statement.

Everyone on our list right now is replaceable. The team has to have a rebuild of sorts if we want to challenge for a premiership.

[Richter]

From http://www.therichest.org/sports/highes ... l-players/

This list as of Sept 2011....

As of 2010 only four AFL players earned more than $900,000, even with the inclusion of AFL-approved club marketing payments. The salaries include club payments for marketing services known as Additional Service Agreements, but not private third-party deals such as Judd’s arrangement with cardboard giant Visy. Unlike most of the Big 4 leagues in the USA, AFL (Australian Football League) contracts aren’t released to the public. Therefore a lot of speculation is created as to who is making the big bucks. Fox Sports compiled a rough guide through research in the industry as to who are the highest paid athletes in the game.


900,000-$1 Million
Jonathan Brown (Brisbane), Chris Judd (Carlton), Matthew Pavlich (Fremantle), Nick Riewoldt (St Kilda).

$800,000-$900,000
Adam Goodes (Sydney), Aaron Sandilands (Fremantle).

$700,000-$800,000
Gary Ablett (Geelong), Luke Hodge (Hawthorn).

$600,000-$700,000
Simon Black (Brisbane), Dean Cox (West Coast), Lance Franklin (Hawthorn), Brendon Goddard (St Kilda), Brent Harvey (North Melbourne), Daniel Kerr (West Coast), Dane Swan (Collingwood), Kurt Tippett (Adelaide).

$500,000-$600,000
Jimmy Bartel (Geelong), Luke Ball (Collingwood), Cameron Bruce (Melbourne), Adam Cooney (Western Bulldogs), Nick Dal Santo (St Kilda), Brett Deledio (Richmond), Darren Glass (West Coast), Luke Power (Brisbane), Matthew Scarlett (Geelong).

Suggests a few things...

- firstly that BJ is already being paid handsomely - as one of the top 20 players in the game. Probably accurate when you look at season 2009/10, but is it accurate over the last two years?

- look at the top 12 paid players...

5 are key forwards who are like gold dust (Brown, Pavlich, Riewoldt, Franklin, Tippett)...

another 2 are multi-AA ruckmen (Sandilands, Cox)... one has 3x AA and a B&F, the other a 6-time AA and one time B&F winner...

Adam Goodes is a dual Brownlow medallist, 4 x AA and 3x B&F...
Gary Ablett has one Brownlow, 6x AA and 4x B&F...
Luke Hodge is a 3x AA, including once as captain, 2x B&F...
Simon Black won a Brownlow, is 3x AA and has 3x B&F wins...
Brent Harvey is 4x AA, 5x B&F...
Daniel Kerr has one AA...
Dane Swan is Brownlow medallist, 4x AA and 3 B&F wins...

Brendon Goddard is a dual AA, was second in B&F in 2009

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Seriously, when you look at that, what makes people think that BJ should be paid in the same company as these players? We have at least 3 players (Rooey, Dal and Lenny) who should be paid more than BJ...

[dragit]

I don't think the club are making a stand at all… it's just part of a careful, methodical approach to sustainable list management… which we have been completely devoid of in recent times.

Riewoldts last massive contract was clearly a mistake, as was Luke Balls massive salary at age 21, now that we are not contending, I think it is a perfect time to stop signing players to absurd contracts. This is the exact reason we brought in Pelchen, so that next time we make a grand final, we won't have players of the calibre of McQualter, Eddy, Polo, Peake running around - because 8 players are taking up 70% of our entire salary.

I'm sure there will be some instances where a player will earn over 500K at our club, but BJ clearly isn't the best or most important player at the club. I am sick to death of people referencing a grand final now over 2 years ago… if he had been playing at that level for the past 2 years, then I would be all behind paying him ridiculous wages… but the fact is - he just hasn't been that good, not ordinary, but certainly not elite.

Good bye Brendon, if you would prefer more money than to stay at the club, that is fine by me… but here's hoping the Bombers never win another flag in my lifetime.

[dragit]

$600,000-$700,000
Simon Black (Brisbane), Dean Cox (West Coast), Lance Franklin (Hawthorn), Brendon Goddard (St Kilda), Brent Harvey (North Melbourne), Daniel Kerr (West Coast), Dane Swan (Collingwood), Kurt Tippett (Adelaide).

- firstly that BJ is already being paid handsomely - as one of the top 20 players in the game. Probably accurate when you look at season 2009/10, but is it accurate over the last two years?

f*** him… Just like Luke Ball, take the big dollars then bail when things get remotely tight (like $500,000 is tight)
Honestly, if it is good enough for Lenny, it should be good enough for everyone else.

[markp]

AFL (Australian Football League) contracts aren’t released to the public. Therefore a lot of speculation is created as to who is making the big bucks. Fox Sports compiled a rough guide through research in the industry as to who are the highest paid athletes in the game.

[66 Saints]

From http://www.therichest.org/sports/highes ... l-players/

This list as of Sept 2011....

As of 2010 only four AFL players earned more than $900,000, even with the inclusion of AFL-approved club marketing payments. The salaries include club payments for marketing services known as Additional Service Agreements, but not private third-party deals such as Judd’s arrangement with cardboard giant Visy. Unlike most of the Big 4 leagues in the USA, AFL (Australian Football League) contracts aren’t released to the public. Therefore a lot of speculation is created as to who is making the big bucks. Fox Sports compiled a rough guide through research in the industry as to who are the highest paid athletes in the game.


900,000-$1 Million
Jonathan Brown (Brisbane), Chris Judd (Carlton), Matthew Pavlich (Fremantle), Nick Riewoldt (St Kilda).

$800,000-$900,000
Adam Goodes (Sydney), Aaron Sandilands (Fremantle).

$700,000-$800,000
Gary Ablett (Geelong), Luke Hodge (Hawthorn).

$600,000-$700,000
Simon Black (Brisbane), Dean Cox (West Coast), Lance Franklin (Hawthorn), Brendon Goddard (St Kilda), Brent Harvey (North Melbourne), Daniel Kerr (West Coast), Dane Swan (Collingwood), Kurt Tippett (Adelaide).

$500,000-$600,000
Jimmy Bartel (Geelong), Luke Ball (Collingwood), Cameron Bruce (Melbourne), Adam Cooney (Western Bulldogs), Nick Dal Santo (St Kilda), Brett Deledio (Richmond), Darren Glass (West Coast), Luke Power (Brisbane), Matthew Scarlett (Geelong).

Suggests a few things...

- firstly that BJ is already being paid handsomely - as one of the top 20 players in the game. Probably accurate when you look at season 2009/10, but is it accurate over the last two years?

- look at the top 12 paid players...

5 are key forwards who are like gold dust (Brown, Pavlich, Riewoldt, Franklin, Tippett)...

another 2 are multi-AA ruckmen (Sandilands, Cox)... one has 3x AA and a B&F, the other a 6-time AA and one time B&F winner...

Adam Goodes is a dual Brownlow medallist, 4 x AA and 3x B&F...
Gary Ablett has one Brownlow, 6x AA and 4x B&F...
Luke Hodge is a 3x AA, including once as captain, 2x B&F...
Simon Black won a Brownlow, is 3x AA and has 3x B&F wins...
Brent Harvey is 4x AA, 5x B&F...
Daniel Kerr has one AA...
Dane Swan is Brownlow medallist, 4x AA and 3 B&F wins...

Brendon Goddard is a dual AA, was second in B&F in 2009

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Seriously, when you look at that, what makes people think that BJ should be paid in the same company as these players? We have at least 3 players (Rooey, Dal and Lenny) who should be paid more than BJ...

Way to sensible, can't have facts getting in the way of emotion.

[markp]

Goddard is being greedy, and the bummers are mad to be offering him that much (however much that actually is), let's run with that.

[plugger66]

Goddard is being greedy, and the bummers are mad to be offering him that much (however much that actually is), let's run with that.

I know you dont want him to leave but surely you dont want us to pay around 3 million over 4 years to keep him?

[markp]

From http://www.therichest.org/sports/highes ... l-players/

This list as of Sept 2011....

As of 2010 only four AFL players earned more than $900,000, even with the inclusion of AFL-approved club marketing payments. The salaries include club payments for marketing services known as Additional Service Agreements, but not private third-party deals such as Judd’s arrangement with cardboard giant Visy. Unlike most of the Big 4 leagues in the USA, AFL (Australian Football League) contracts aren’t released to the public. Therefore a lot of speculation is created as to who is making the big bucks. Fox Sports compiled a rough guide through research in the industry as to who are the highest paid athletes in the game.


900,000-$1 Million
Jonathan Brown (Brisbane), Chris Judd (Carlton), Matthew Pavlich (Fremantle), Nick Riewoldt (St Kilda).

$800,000-$900,000
Adam Goodes (Sydney), Aaron Sandilands (Fremantle).

$700,000-$800,000
Gary Ablett (Geelong), Luke Hodge (Hawthorn).

$600,000-$700,000
Simon Black (Brisbane), Dean Cox (West Coast), Lance Franklin (Hawthorn), Brendon Goddard (St Kilda), Brent Harvey (North Melbourne), Daniel Kerr (West Coast), Dane Swan (Collingwood), Kurt Tippett (Adelaide).

$500,000-$600,000
Jimmy Bartel (Geelong), Luke Ball (Collingwood), Cameron Bruce (Melbourne), Adam Cooney (Western Bulldogs), Nick Dal Santo (St Kilda), Brett Deledio (Richmond), Darren Glass (West Coast), Luke Power (Brisbane), Matthew Scarlett (Geelong).

Suggests a few things...

- firstly that BJ is already being paid handsomely - as one of the top 20 players in the game. Probably accurate when you look at season 2009/10, but is it accurate over the last two years?

- look at the top 12 paid players...

5 are key forwards who are like gold dust (Brown, Pavlich, Riewoldt, Franklin, Tippett)...

another 2 are multi-AA ruckmen (Sandilands, Cox)... one has 3x AA and a B&F, the other a 6-time AA and one time B&F winner...

Adam Goodes is a dual Brownlow medallist, 4 x AA and 3x B&F...
Gary Ablett has one Brownlow, 6x AA and 4x B&F...
Luke Hodge is a 3x AA, including once as captain, 2x B&F...
Simon Black won a Brownlow, is 3x AA and has 3x B&F wins...
Brent Harvey is 4x AA, 5x B&F...
Daniel Kerr has one AA...
Dane Swan is Brownlow medallist, 4x AA and 3 B&F wins...

Brendon Goddard is a dual AA, was second in B&F in 2009

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Seriously, when you look at that, what makes people think that BJ should be paid in the same company as these players? We have at least 3 players (Rooey, Dal and Lenny) who should be paid more than BJ...

Way to sensible, can't have facts getting in the way of emotion.

Based entirely on guesswork published on a very dodgy looking site.

[markp]

Goddard is being greedy, and the bummers are mad to be offering him that much (however much that actually is), let's run with that.

I know you dont want him to leave but surely you dont want us to pay around 3 million over 4 years to keep him?

Nup, the horse has bolted.

But it shouldn't have got to this stage.

[66 Saints]

From http://www.therichest.org/sports/highes ... l-players/
Way to sensible, can't have facts getting in the way of emotion.

Based entirely on guesswork published on a very dodgy looking site.

was referring to the reasoning behind paying them high amounts, not the actual salary

[Dr Spaceman]

Goddard is being greedy, and the bummers are mad to be offering him that much (however much that actually is), let's run with that.

I know you dont want him to leave but surely you dont want us to pay around 3 million over 4 years to keep him?

Nup, the horse has bolted.

But it shouldn't have got to this stage.

Who's to say it could've been prevented?

Bombers offer could have been put to him early in the year.