After Lenny’s exceptional year given the circumstances how it began and ended and in light of his excellent polling at the Brownlow it got me thinking about how revered he is at not only the club but within the whole universe. I was then pondering if he is now more revered than Harvey or if he has just reached the same exulted heights as Harves?
He surely must be close to a knighthood or is Harves still the most revered to have ever worn the red, white and black? Discuss.
Harves or Hayes
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Re: Harves or Hayes
Harves or Hayes?
Both please.
Both please.
Lance or James??
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
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Cairnsman
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Re: Harves or Hayes
That's what I reckon, even though Harves won Back to Back Brownlows I reckon Hayes evens it up with his Norm Smith.joffaboy wrote:Harves or Hayes?
Both please.
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cowboy18
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Re: Harves or Hayes
On longevity (and the standard he upheld for so long) I think Harves just shades Hayes at the moment.
But on character and effort, and as role models for the team I think they can't be separated. They can both look back at their terrific legacies with immense pride. Their humility stands out as a trait that makes them very special members of the club.
But on character and effort, and as role models for the team I think they can't be separated. They can both look back at their terrific legacies with immense pride. Their humility stands out as a trait that makes them very special members of the club.
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older saint
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Re: Harves or Hayes
Love Lenny but Harvey was one of the all time greats when mids were running all day. Still like asking do you want a Ferrari or a lambagini
Re: Harves or Hayes
Do you best player or best club man or best bloke because if it is best player then IMO it is neither of these. it can only be one man and he is Plugger.
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saintspremiers
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Re: Harves or Hayes
Yes you are the best there ever has been.plugger66 wrote:Do you best player or best club man or best bloke because if it is best player then IMO it is neither of these. it can only be one man and he is Plugger.
i am Melbourne Skies - sometimes Blue Skies, Grey Skies, even Partly Cloudy Skies.
Re: Harves or Hayes
saintspremiers wrote:Yes you are the best there ever has been.plugger66 wrote:Do you best player or best club man or best bloke because if it is best player then IMO it is neither of these. it can only be one man and he is Plugger.
Im the 66th best. Plugger01 is the best. Actually 02. Howard was plugger01.
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Moods
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Re: Harves or Hayes
Was thinking the same thing to be honest. NO player could influence a game so profoundly and so often as Plugger.plugger66 wrote:Do you best player or best club man or best bloke because if it is best player then IMO it is neither of these. it can only be one man and he is Plugger.
Imagine if Plugger had Roo's professionalism, or Harves or Lenny's - the thought is scarey
Re: Harves or Hayes
As players Harvey >>>>>Hayes. Harvey changed the way midfielders play and what was expected of them. He was a pioneer in the elite fitness that is now expected of most mid-fielders. Raised the bar and changed the game.
As blokes and clubman, two of the greatest Saints of the modern era. Kind of like asking which kid is your favourite. Just glad they are both Saints, along with Trevor Barker, Geoff Cunningham, Danny Frawley, Nathan Burke, Nicky Winmar, Stuart Loewe and Nick Reiwoldt. All great representatives of our great club.
As blokes and clubman, two of the greatest Saints of the modern era. Kind of like asking which kid is your favourite. Just glad they are both Saints, along with Trevor Barker, Geoff Cunningham, Danny Frawley, Nathan Burke, Nicky Winmar, Stuart Loewe and Nick Reiwoldt. All great representatives of our great club.
Re: Harves or Hayes
Agree on Plugger, probably in the top 4 of all time ( in any order - Carey, Ablett snr, Mathews fwiw),.
Out of Harves and Lenny, its probably unfair to try and split them, but for the sake of the argument, i think Lenny JUST shades Harves in contested possession and disposal efficiency and tackling. Harves probably got more possessions outrunning tags and providing link up options. Different players really so hard to compare head to head.
Out of Harves and Lenny, its probably unfair to try and split them, but for the sake of the argument, i think Lenny JUST shades Harves in contested possession and disposal efficiency and tackling. Harves probably got more possessions outrunning tags and providing link up options. Different players really so hard to compare head to head.
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saintbob
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Re: Harves or Hayes
Better yet, imagine Roo with Plugger's ability!!!Moods wrote:Was thinking the same thing to be honest. NO player could influence a game so profoundly and so often as Plugger.plugger66 wrote:Do you best player or best club man or best bloke because if it is best player then IMO it is neither of these. it can only be one man and he is Plugger.
Imagine if Plugger had Roo's professionalism, or Harves or Lenny's - the thought is scarey
Re: Harves or Hayes
I think we'll know over time how each impacted the club....
The current mids speak highly of Harves impact on them when they arrived, we'll hear in a few years how Hayes impacted the kids coming through now.
The current mids speak highly of Harves impact on them when they arrived, we'll hear in a few years how Hayes impacted the kids coming through now.
Re: Harves or Hayes
Plugger better than Carey...
Carey a champion, great, no doubt, but gets highlighted more as a)more recent b)less other champion forwards in the comp at the time/since c)leadership and premierships d)Mike Sheehan..
As a pure footballer, all round skills, ability to influence a game, Plugger's the greatest...
Carey couldnt really mark overhead for starters...
.. sorta true...
Carey a champion, great, no doubt, but gets highlighted more as a)more recent b)less other champion forwards in the comp at the time/since c)leadership and premierships d)Mike Sheehan..
As a pure footballer, all round skills, ability to influence a game, Plugger's the greatest...
Carey couldnt really mark overhead for starters...
.. sorta true...-
whiskers3614
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Re: Harves or Hayes
I Don't pretend to know either player but Banger didn't present so well in the media, not sure his personality will stand up to a senior coaching gig,
Lenny also seems quiet but has a certain glint in his eye that my daughters and others of his generation find endearing.
Lenny also seems quiet but has a certain glint in his eye that my daughters and others of his generation find endearing.
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saintsRrising
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Re: Harves or Hayes
Plugga at times had up to 4 players on him.
I doubt, except early on, that he went one on one that often. Opposition teams just would not do it, for despite how vrap the saints were most of the time he was with us, to leave Plaugga one out would have been to risk losing the game.
Of the players I am have seen live at the Saints he was the best.....and definitely the most intimidating. If you did not see Plugga live at his awesome/brutal/skilful best, then you missed one of life's great joys. Sublime kick on goal, great mark, brisk pace over 10 m, great below is knees.....and he had just an intimidating presence that whole teams look over their shoulders and heard footsteps.
Harvey was the second best I have seen.....just barely above with Winmar and George Young. TB a bees dick below them.
I was too young for Baldock and Stewart.
Hayes is right up there too, but Banger shades him.
I doubt, except early on, that he went one on one that often. Opposition teams just would not do it, for despite how vrap the saints were most of the time he was with us, to leave Plaugga one out would have been to risk losing the game.
Of the players I am have seen live at the Saints he was the best.....and definitely the most intimidating. If you did not see Plugga live at his awesome/brutal/skilful best, then you missed one of life's great joys. Sublime kick on goal, great mark, brisk pace over 10 m, great below is knees.....and he had just an intimidating presence that whole teams look over their shoulders and heard footsteps.
Harvey was the second best I have seen.....just barely above with Winmar and George Young. TB a bees dick below them.
I was too young for Baldock and Stewart.
Hayes is right up there too, but Banger shades him.
Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
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Moods
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Re: Harves or Hayes
I can - and with it I'm imagining about 4 premierships I would have seen. And Roo has a fair bit of ability to start withsaintbob wrote:Better yet, imagine Roo with Plugger's ability!!!Moods wrote:Was thinking the same thing to be honest. NO player could influence a game so profoundly and so often as Plugger.plugger66 wrote:Do you best player or best club man or best bloke because if it is best player then IMO it is neither of these. it can only be one man and he is Plugger.
Imagine if Plugger had Roo's professionalism, or Harves or Lenny's - the thought is scarey
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saintsRrising
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Re: Harves or Hayes
If Plugga had ever trained seriously.....there probably would be no discussion about who was the greatest player ever.
The club dietician and Plugga never saw eye to eye......
The club dietician and Plugga never saw eye to eye......
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Dr Spaceman
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Re: Harves or Hayes
saintsRrising wrote:Plugga at times had up to 4 players on him.
I doubt, except early on, that he went one on one that often. Opposition teams just would not do it, for despite how vrap the saints were most of the time he was with us, to leave Plaugga one out would have been to risk losing the game.
Of the players I am have seen live at the Saints he was the best.....and definitely the most intimidating. If you did not see Plugga live at his awesome/brutal/skilful best, then you missed one of life's great joys. Sublime kick on goal, great mark, brisk pace over 10 m, great below is knees.....and he had just an intimidating presence that whole teams look over their shoulders and heard footsteps.
Harvey was the second best I have seen.....just barely above with Winmar and George Young. TB a bees dick below them.
I was too young for Baldock and Stewart.
Hayes is right up there too, but Banger shades him.
"Shut up!!! ............ you had me at George Young"