Scott Watters

[dragit]

I guess he thought, if he could get us a quick Premiership, all would be good. Very short sighted.

This is insane, we've just played in 2 grand finals FFS… a bit of bad luck meant that we didn't get it done. I don't blame a coach for doing everything in their power to try and win us a flag - that is what he was doing, now we resent him for it. He's not perfect, he made mistakes, but he was trying to win us a flag.

[bigred]

How can he get a pass mark coaching us to ninth?

4/10 is fair. He would probably be comfortable with that.

There were a lot of positives this year and I think we should be confident about the next few years.

But.....

We dropped games we should not have.
One win against the top eight is not good enough.

I look forward to SW dumping players that can't kick.
I look forward to seeing the young blokes blooded this year come through.

This thread is not and should not be about f****** Ross Lyon. He has enough threads on this board already.

[dragit]

If playing kids gets you 7 's and 9's then Dean Bailey is the greatest coach ever.

[Dr Spaceman]

Scott either did:

A pretty good job with an aging list that is not quite as good as some of us think it is, or

A pretty average job with a list that really should be good enough to finish top 4 and be challenging for a flag.

Seeing as there are a lot of different views about our list, and the various players that comprise that list, it's only natural there'll be a lot of different views re Scott's performance.

I suppose all opinions are valid, just as long as those who knock our list don't knock the coach, and those who rate the list don't talk up the coach.

[whiskers3614]

I guess he thought, if he could get us a quick Premiership, all would be good. Very short sighted.

This is insane, we've just played in 2 grand finals FFS… a bit of bad luck meant that we didn't get it done. I don't blame a coach for doing everything in their power to try and win us a flag - that is what he was doing, now we resent him for it. He's not perfect, he made mistakes, but he was trying to win us a flag.

[magnifisaint]

I cant wait the day Scott Watters leaves the club and see the supporters opinion of him.

WTF?

Just enjoy what he does with the club

[SainterK]

I look forward to SW dumping players that can't kick.
I look forward to seeing the young blokes blooded this year come through.

Tick, and tick....already begun red.

[skeptic]

you can't rate a coach based solely on their ladder position... you need to put it into context.

take Adelaide, if they lost to Freo on Saturday i'd have still given them a 9-9.5 based on where they came from
if Goldcoast finished say 9-10th... you'd give them at least a 8-9 too
I would give Nth a higher score then Geelong as one went up and one went down.

Saints get at least a 6 or 7



Most hated myth is that Lyon sacrificed tomorrow to go for glory today. Exactly what benefit did we have from playing McQualter ahead of Armitage and Steven in 2010.

Ross Lyon's major flaw was that he preferred hard work over talent and couldn't get the talented to play the way he wanted

[dragit]

take Adelaide, if they lost to Freo on Saturday i'd have still given them a 9-9.5 based on where they came from

Doesn't give you much room improvement…

Finishing 2nd, but going out in straight sets - 9.5?
So what if they won a final, two finals, make a grand final, win a premiership?

[skeptic]

most people didn't even have them in the 8

phenominal effort with a 1st year coach

so your saying that only a grand final = a 9+ effort?

[gringo]

I always had Freo looking for a finals spot. Harvey like Ratten this year just couldn't get players on the park- they had something like 12 regular seniors missing for large parts of the season. Just getting improvement in injury management was enough to catapult them back up the ladder. That said i think Lyon outcoached the inexperienced Scott against Geelong. I see the defensive style of Freo as a fairly accurate copy of our own past form with a few tweaks. Over all I think it is impossible to rate coaches accurately as they all inherit different lists at different points in their development. Scott has been really strong on getting games into youth and playing a more attacking skill based game based on quick ball movement multipronged attack.

I think we have employed Scott because he sees a bigger picture than gameday and understands the business of football.

[spert]

As I see it, Watters is big picture guy, and Lyon is postage stamp guy- one dimensional and will never get premiership, but will have good competitive teams. So far, premierships are Watters 0, Lyon 0.

[noob]

I expect us to be around the same mark again. Not challenging neither sliding down to the bottom of the ladder. I'd have us anywhere between 8-13th next year.

[PJ]

As part of the criteria for judging someone's coaching efforts surely you'd have to make comparisons with other coaches inaugural years.

How did these blokes go in their first year?

Malthouse
Worsfold
Lyon
Thompson
Mathews
Roos

[thejiggingsaint]

Watching Fremantle race to an almost six goal lead in the first half against a shell-shocked Adelaide, and then be comprehensively beaten (by a first year coach) in the sort of game Lyon is supposed to excel in, explodes some of the myths being peddled about him. The reverence being bandied about by folk like Walls and Darcy and co about Lyon far exceeds his ACTUAL talent when it MATTERS! (using that idiot runner is one example of his "genius")

[Gershwin]

First time coach in his first year, I didn't expect too much and feared a disaster and that didn't happen.

Second year expecting players to be more familiar with the game-plan, coach to be more comfortable with his positition, aggressive trading and recruitment and good times ahead.

[Thinline]

Watching Fremantle race to an almost six goal lead in the first half against a shell-shocked Adelaide, and then be comprehensively beaten (by a first year coach) in the sort of game Lyon is supposed to excel in, explodes some of the myths being peddled about him. The reverence being bandied about by folk like Walls and Darcy and co about Lyon far exceeds his ACTUAL talent when it MATTERS! (using that idiot runner is one example of his "genius")

I must admit it did put things back in their proper perspective. I glowed about Lyon post the Qual win over Geelong, but Friday night was purely classic Lyon. No second gear. No killer punch. No plan B. He's a terrific coach who will more often than not get you to finals. Whether or not he's a premiership coach obviously remains to be seen. Have my doubts now.

[gringo]

Watching Fremantle race to an almost six goal lead in the first half against a shell-shocked Adelaide, and then be comprehensively beaten (by a first year coach) in the sort of game Lyon is supposed to excel in, explodes some of the myths being peddled about him. The reverence being bandied about by folk like Walls and Darcy and co about Lyon far exceeds his ACTUAL talent when it MATTERS! (using that idiot runner is one example of his "genius")

How much of a cocky flog did he sound like pre game on SEN with Dermot, he had the kind of swagger triple premiership coaches coming up against bottom teams have. Loved his sportsman ship when he chucked the assistant coaches head phones away in the last couple of minutes.

I don't know if it's just me but he seems to be peddling this tough uncompromising Freo with a "we've been kicked for years now we'll do the kicking" attitude. It smacks of a snake oil salesman and has a touch of bluff and bluster about it to me. He almost seems to be unconvinced himself. A guy that walks like a woman but talks like a man shouldn't act tough. Might have to start calling him Lola Lyon from now on. And yes I am immature.

[SainterK]

I had a little giggle when they asked Ross who he thought would win the flag...

'The Hawks for sure, they monstered us in Tassie'

Because the premiership will be decided on who beat Freo

[bobmurray]

Scott either did:

A pretty good job with an aging list that is not quite as good as some of us think it is, or

A pretty average job with a list that really should be good enough to finish top 4 and be challenging for a flag.

Seeing as there are a lot of different views about our list, and the various players that comprise that list, it's only natural there'll be a lot of different views re Scott's performance.

I suppose all opinions are valid, just as long as those who knock our list don't knock the coach, and those who rate the list don't talk up the coach.

It's certainly not a top 4 list that should be challenging for a flag, they had their chance and fluffed it, this list is evolving and struggling to stay in touch with the eight..

Watters is overseeing it's development, he has his goals as well, he may need some time to restock the list...

he may run out of time....happens often...

[bergholt]

We have only ever seen Ro$$ Lyin coach ready made teams. For what ever reasons, as we know, he did not develop the kids. I guess he thought, if he could get us a quick Premiership, all would be good.

if so, he was right, because it would have been better than good. he would have been a saints legend forever. no-one would have complained that he didn't play the kids. and he only missed this by a tiny margin.

or would you rather have played a few kids each year, finished fourth or fifth consistently, played a couple of finals and not made the 2009/2010 grand finals? that's the other option. you can't have it both ways.

[tweedaletomanning]

Jury is still out on Watters. The picture will be clearer in 2 or 3 years time. But anyone giving 6, 7, 8 out of 10 for this year... is settling for mediocrity I reckon.

We missed out on the finals with an experienced list which, while collectively past their peak, should still have comfortably made the eight. The Sydney win is the only one of note. We lost matches against rubbish teams and that is inexcusable.

I'll give a 4 out of 10, and that is being a bit generous because I have a soft spot for seeing bits of the attacking style which made 2004 so great.

yeah good post - think 6+ is definately being generous.

+ 1

[plugger66]

I had a little giggle when they asked Ross who he thought would win the flag...

'The Hawks for sure, they monstered us in Tassie'

Because the premiership will be decided on who beat Freo

Some people use to worship everything RL said.

[clarky449]

Watching Fremantle race to an almost six goal lead in the first half against a shell-shocked Adelaide, and then be comprehensively beaten (by a first year coach) in the sort of game Lyon is supposed to excel in, explodes some of the myths being peddled about him. The reverence being bandied about by folk like Walls and Darcy and co about Lyon far exceeds his ACTUAL talent when it MATTERS! (using that idiot runner is one example of his "genius")

How much of a cocky flog did he sound like pre game on SEN with Dermot, he had the kind of swagger triple premiership coaches coming up against bottom teams have. Loved his sportsman ship when he chucked the assistant coaches head phones away in the last couple of minutes.

I don't know if it's just me but he seems to be peddling this tough uncompromising Freo with a "we've been kicked for years now we'll do the kicking" attitude. It smacks of a snake oil salesman and has a touch of bluff and bluster about it to me. He almost seems to be unconvinced himself. A guy that walks like a woman but talks like a man shouldn't act tough. Might have to start calling him Lola Lyon from now on. And yes I am immature.

Sounded the same as he did when he coached us. Did you have a problem then?

[gringo]

Watching Fremantle race to an almost six goal lead in the first half against a shell-shocked Adelaide, and then be comprehensively beaten (by a first year coach) in the sort of game Lyon is supposed to excel in, explodes some of the myths being peddled about him. The reverence being bandied about by folk like Walls and Darcy and co about Lyon far exceeds his ACTUAL talent when it MATTERS! (using that idiot runner is one example of his "genius")

How much of a cocky flog did he sound like pre game on SEN with Dermot, he had the kind of swagger triple premiership coaches coming up against bottom teams have. Loved his sportsman ship when he chucked the assistant coaches head phones away in the last couple of minutes.

I don't know if it's just me but he seems to be peddling this tough uncompromising Freo with a "we've been kicked for years now we'll do the kicking" attitude. It smacks of a snake oil salesman and has a touch of bluff and bluster about it to me. He almost seems to be unconvinced himself. A guy that walks like a woman but talks like a man shouldn't act tough. Might have to start calling him Lola Lyon from now on. And yes I am immature.

Sounded the same as he did when he coached us. Did you have a problem then?

No but I never claimed to be reasonable. You tend to over look the annoying bits like poncey walks, locked down games and keepings off in the backline but after he's gone you see him in the cold light of day and it aint so pretty.