B&F

[midas_touch]

Congrats to Lenny, a well deserved winner and someone who has bounced back from an ACL injury as good as anyone I can remember. a true champion of the game. In saying that, I'm a bit confused as to how Montagna claimed second place, why Fisher is in the top 10 and why Milne is not.

[always_a_saint]

Anyone have a strange compulsion to go and see the "intouchables"?

You can have my two movie tickets to see it that I won in the 'ball bonanza'? Paid $100 for a ball and got a prize. Must say, bit of a difference between a Nivia face pack and a signe player jumper. But hey, it's all money for the club so I didn't really care.

Must say, I went in 2009 to the B&F and in comparison tonight was a million times better. Felt like it was much more open and welcoming to the fans and everything was really well done. In 2009 we were told not to approach the players...this year they jus mingled with everyone. Was great and they were all super friendly and happy to chat, have photos etc. Really rate Ahmed Saad...such a nice guy and said he was having a great night at his first saints B&F

I have a camera full of photos and have gone home feeling all warm and fuzzy about the saints loved it. Bring on 2013.

[Con Gorozidis]

calling armo and geary 'kids' is a stretch .unless we are in dads army.

the more i think about it the more i think we should let bj go.
we have enough players over 28 already . let's roll the dice with 2 first round picks and just hope pelchen and elshaugh get them both right.

[bergholt]

I'm a bit confused as to how Montagna claimed second place, why Fisher is in the top 10 and why Milne is not.

i think the way the system works is that they add up all the votes and then sort the players in descending order of the number of votes they got in total. so montagna finished second because over the course of the season he got the second most votes from the coaches - in other words, they gave him jobs each week and thought he did them well. similarlysam fisher except he played fewer games do finished lower. milney on the other hand didn't get as many votes so didn't finish do high. I hope that helps.

[Moods]

I'm a bit confused as to how Montagna claimed second place, why Fisher is in the top 10 and why Milne is not.

i think the way the system works is that they add up all the votes and then sort the players in descending order of the number of votes they got in total. so montagna finished second because over the course of the season he got the second most votes from the coaches - in other words, they gave him jobs each week and thought he did them well. similarlysam fisher except he played fewer games do finished lower. milney on the other hand didn't get as many votes so didn't finish do high. I hope that helps.

I gotta be honest - our B&F voting system is a joke!

Lenny defintely deserved to win, don't get me wrong. However for Joey to finish only a couple of votes behind him is laughable. And BJ to finish 4th! Give me a break. Is someone trying to keep him at the club, or are they trying to pump up his worth to outsiders? He would be lucky to be in our top 10 players this year. Certainly doesn't deserve to finish higher than Milne. Are ppl seriously going to tell me that BJ had a better year than Milne? Or Dal? Some of these guys should be insulted.

Last year was bad enough when Dal didn't win. Roo won it in 09 but only just when he was clearly our best player. The voting system they have is rubbish. Amount of games you play per year shouldn't come into it. Too many players scoring votes for average games, and not enough reward for those players who play games that really influence the result.

[dragit]

I gotta be honest - our B&F voting system is a joke!

It isn't the fans favourite… quite often the brownlow winner doesn't win his own B&F, the coaches assign jobs to players that most fans would probably barely recognise.
Joey has been very consistent this year, doesn't deserve all the crap he cops on here… congrats to him.
We need Jack and Armo to start getting near Joey's consistency if we are to become a top 4 side again.

[Enrico_Misso]

Who would want that painting of lenny ?
He looks like one of the humanoids in the second planet of the apes movie !

i was going for more freddy kruger type thing


well someone paid $2k for it.

Maybe it was the person who bid 6k on the first thing then did a runner ?

I can reveal that the mystery bidder up the back near the toilets was a life member (of 1 year).
He was amusing everyone by pumping up the bidding.
But at $6k the other bidder faltered, and faced with the prospect of having to fork out $6k for that horrible painting he bolted out the front door.

But he was back later to make some unnoticed bids behind the exit curtain on the Draft package.
He had that end of the room in great amusement.

[Moods]

I gotta be honest - our B&F voting system is a joke!

It isn't the fans favourite… quite often the brownlow winner doesn't win his own B&F, the coaches assign jobs to players that most fans would probably barely recognise.
Joey has been very consistent this year, doesn't deserve all the crap he cops on here… congrats to him.
We need Jack and Armo to start getting near Joey's consistency if we are to become a top 4 side again.

I am aware taht Joey was assigned certain jobs this year. For instance in the last game he kept Murphy quiet. Good job Joey, but to win votes or be in our best few, he has to win some of the ball himself.

I wasn't really referring to Joey, who I thought deserved to finish top 5. Dempster was our second best, and Roo was our third best. BJ in our top 4? I don't care what jobs he was assigned, he didn't do them well enough. BJ played better than Roo this year? It's a joke and ruins the credibility of the award imo.

[CURLY]

I gotta be honest - our B&F voting system is a joke!

It isn't the fans favourite… quite often the brownlow winner doesn't win his own B&F, the coaches assign jobs to players that most fans would probably barely recognise.
Joey has been very consistent this year, doesn't deserve all the crap he cops on here… congrats to him.
We need Jack and Armo to start getting near Joey's consistency if we are to become a top 4 side again.

I am aware taht Joey was assigned certain jobs this year. For instance in the last game he kept Murphy quiet. Good job Joey, but to win votes or be in our best few, he has to win some of the ball himself.

I wasn't really referring to Joey, who I thought deserved to finish top 5. Dempster was our second best, and Roo was our third best. BJ in our top 4? I don't care what jobs he was assigned, he didn't do them well enough. BJ played better than Roo this year? It's a joke and ruins the credibility of the award imo.

Why would anyone question the results of a B&F if they are not involved in the match committee themselves.

[Moods]

[
It isn't the fans favourite… quite often the brownlow winner doesn't win his own B&F, the coaches assign jobs to players that most fans would probably barely recognise.
Joey has been very consistent this year, doesn't deserve all the crap he cops on here… congrats to him.
We need Jack and Armo to start getting near Joey's consistency if we are to become a top 4 side again.

I am aware taht Joey was assigned certain jobs this year. For instance in the last game he kept Murphy quiet. Good job Joey, but to win votes or be in our best few, he has to win some of the ball himself.

I wasn't really referring to Joey, who I thought deserved to finish top 5. Dempster was our second best, and Roo was our third best. BJ in our top 4? I don't care what jobs he was assigned, he didn't do them well enough. BJ played better than Roo this year? It's a joke and ruins the credibility of the award imo.[/quote]

Why would anyone question the results of a B&F if they are not involved in the match committee themselves.[/quote]

Why? Because I have two eyes. Some things I will acknowledge, we as supporters aren't privy to. However BJ had a dreadful year. Was suspended for a few games and tagged out of a few completely. You telling me he was our 4th best player this year Curly?

Look last year I thought that Dal was really stiff, but could accept that Fish won it. Both had great years. I don't reckon that Joey was 2nd best this year, but can accept it and find it interesting that he was obviously assigned certain roles which differ to previous years. I KNOW BJ didn't have a good year, because his disposal was poor compared to other years, and he barely took a contested mark, and won very few contested possessions. What's he getting votes on?

[CURLY]

Why would anyone question the results of a B&F if they are not involved in the match committee themselves.[/quote]

Why? Because I have two eyes. Some things I will acknowledge, we as supporters aren't privy to. However BJ had a dreadful year. Was suspended for a few games and tagged out of a few completely. You telling me he was our 4th best player this year Curly?

Look last year I thought that Dal was really stiff, but could accept that Fish won it. Both had great years. I don't reckon that Joey was 2nd best this year, but can accept it and find it interesting that he was obviously assigned certain roles which differ to previous years. I KNOW BJ didn't have a good year, because his disposal was poor compared to other years, and he barely took a contested mark, and won very few contested possessions. What's he getting votes on?[/quote]


How do you or I know what he was asked to do this season. Maybe he was asked to play the role he did. Maybe in the games he was good he cleaned up getting all the votes while when others had there best games so did three other bloke meaning the votes where shared. We cant tell from where we sit. FFS Have a look at the votes given on here after games and work them out.

[dragit]

FFS Have a look at the votes given on here after games and work them out.

saintsational player of the year was pretty different to the B&F, though Goddard did finish 2nd, so he can't have been terrible…

Armitage 3rd
Steven 5th

& Montagna 12th - says it all

[MCG-Unit]

FFS Have a look at the votes given on here after games and work them out.

Saintsational player of the year was pretty different to the B&F, though Goddard did finish 2nd, so he can't have been terrible year…

Armitage 3rd
Steven 5th

& Montagna 12th - says it all

Off course Goddard didn't have a terrible year. Now the B & F voting is flawed, because Goddard came a clear 4th.
Last time folks were slamming him, it was the AFLCA votes - we were not to take them as a guide, due to Goddard polling well

Also disagree with the poster who said Goddard didn't get many contested poss. Fine if you don't rate him, but maybe check some background first.
From afl.com.au. 2012 Goddard 487 poss. Ave 24.4. 163 cont poss. ave 8.2 (Hayes at 10.8)

Guess if you're looking for fault, you're sure to find something.....

[Con Gorozidis]

We should all be very happy Goodard got a top 5 finish. If he goes we get a first rounder no questions asked.
I still think it is a massive concern how stacked our top 10 is with older players - and that doesn't consider the fact Milne kicked 55 goals and is definitely in our top 10 players....
We need a few to step up next year (Big Mac, Stanley, Simpkin, Dunell for starters). And Ray, Gwilt and Gilbo can no longer be extras - they need to become core leaders.

[Dr Spaceman]

Have people actually thought he may have another speech or he may not even know yet. He may not decide until the free agency period.

He could have given the supporters hope. He decided to give them nothing.

I’m not really sure what people expected BJ to do last night.

Clearly he hasn’t re-signed with the Saints yet and therefore he is unable to commit to the Saints yet. What’s he supposed to say? “I want to stay at the Saints”? I’m sure he’s already said that at least a dozen times already and that hardly convinces any one. People just think back to Ablett, Scully and even Lyon.

I don’t think we second should for one underestimate the decisions blokes like Goddard and Cloke have to make. It’s fine for us to bang on about loyalty to the club but our loyalty to the Saints doesn’t cost us hundreds of thousands of dollars (only our sanity ).

There’s some who criticise the club for it all coming to this, but I strongly doubt it could’ve played out any differently. The sort of offer that the Saints are apparently tabling now simply wouldn’t have got the job done earlier in the year. It’s a whole new era with FA and I’m sure BJ would’ve wanted to wait regardless of what the club may have wanted to do. Of course $1m a year for 4 years may have got us a signature back in autumn but who of us would have been happy with that?

I don’t want to lose BJ but I do want the club to be sensible about the whole thing.

I’d be pretty shattered if we lost him over say $20,000, or if he left because he thought we were shot. But if the stories are accurate about what we’re offering and what other clubs are offering, and if he decides to go because of that, then so be it.

I will not begrudge him as I have not been put in that position myself (and never will be )

[dragit]

I will not begrudge him as I have not been put in that position myself (and never will be )

I thought a Doctor of forumology would be on millions?

[QuestionOfAccuracy]

I still think it is a massive concern how stacked our top 10 is with older players - and that doesn't consider the fact Milne kicked 55 goals and is definitely in our top 10 players....
We need a few to step up next year (Big Mac, Stanley, Simpkin, Dunell for starters). And Ray, Gwilt and Gilbo can no longer be extras - they need to become core leaders.

I agree. Although Steven and Armo had good years, they need to take it up at least another notch or two next year (and beyond).

[Con Gorozidis]

I still think it is a massive concern how stacked our top 10 is with older players - and that doesn't consider the fact Milne kicked 55 goals and is definitely in our top 10 players....
We need a few to step up next year (Big Mac, Stanley, Simpkin, Dunell for starters). And Ray, Gwilt and Gilbo can no longer be extras - they need to become core leaders.

I agree. Although Steven and Armo had good years, they need to take it up at least another notch or two next year (and beyond).

Armo not really a kid anymore - 24. Core footy player age is really 23-29. So only Steven can be classed a 'kid' IMHO.
But yeah would be nice to see a few enter that top 10 group next year from that 21-23 age group.

[savatage]

Arryn will be top ten next year.

[SainterK]

BJ had a consistent season, people just see what they want to see to justify his leaving if he does.

Fisher probably would of bumped him one lower if he'd not missed 6 weeks.

[Dr Spaceman]

BJ had a consistent season, people just see what they want to see to justify his leaving if he does.

I'm only surprised he didn't finish higher

I’ve just done a little analysis of my voting on this forum and ascertained the following:

2012 Dr. Leo Spaceman Medal (Top 5)

52 Hayes
34 Armitage
30 Goddard
29 Riewoldt
28 Dempster

[saint6709]

I still think it is a massive concern how stacked our top 10 is with older players - and that doesn't consider the fact Milne kicked 55 goals and is definitely in our top 10 players....
We need a few to step up next year (Big Mac, Stanley, Simpkin, Dunell for starters). And Ray, Gwilt and Gilbo can no longer be extras - they need to become core leaders.

I agree. Although Steven and Armo had good years, they need to take it up at least another notch or two next year (and beyond).

Needs to be mention of Geary - I saw him in a practice game for Sandy a few years back - hopeless - for 6th in B & F he has probably had the standout year of anyone at the club - if they had awards like they do in under 11s he has taken " most improved" for sure

[St Lenny]

No official photos this year

[saintbrat]

No official photos this year

they were being taken
I was in the queue behind the queue of players being lined up or snuck in back gaps in the marquee

[saintbrat]

No official photos this year

But there is video

http://www.saints.com.au/tabid/5315/def ... sid=147738

http://www.saints.com.au/multimedia/tab ... fault.aspx