Will Minson Hypothetical

[plugger66]

Hamish McIntosh may come cheap?

I would like Zac Clarke, averages a goal a game, quite servicable in hitouts to advantage, very athletic.

He is exactly the type we should be looking at. McIntosh is like Minson. Where do they play when not rucking? Clarke is a natural forward who can ruck. freo would never let him go but that is the type. Same as Stanley. I actually dont think we need another senior ruckman. We need a hack in the reserves.

[bergholt]

David Hille is still my preferred option, if we can get him for $200k a year for a couple of years. Not bad forward, though not amazing, and still solid in the ruck. Could fill Kosi's spot or McEvoy's spot when required. And I believe he's been relatively durable? No downside really, if he wants to come.

[plugger66]

David Hille is still my preferred option, if we can get him for $200k a year for a couple of years. Not bad forward, though not amazing, and still solid in the ruck. Could fill Kosi's spot or McEvoy's spot when required. And I believe he's been relatively durable? No downside really, if he wants to come.

At least he can play forward. The question is why get a 30 year old unless we can challenge in the next 2 years?

[The Redeemer]

Hamish McIntosh may come cheap?

I would like Zac Clarke, averages a goal a game, quite servicable in hitouts to advantage, very athletic.

Get Hmac somehow cheap and then it is happy days.

This will probably come with Goddard leaving though.

[SainterK]

Hamish McIntosh may come cheap?

I would like Zac Clarke, averages a goal a game, quite servicable in hitouts to advantage, very athletic.

He is exactly the type we should be looking at. McIntosh is like Minson. Where do they play when not rucking? Clarke is a natural forward who can ruck. freo would never let him go but that is the type. Same as Stanley. I actually dont think we need another senior ruckman. We need a hack in the reserves.

I think a lot of clubs will look at Zac, he appears behind Sandi and Griffen at the moment.

Also from Melbourne, so may be able to lure him back, 22 years old.

Perfect fit.

[plugger66]

Hamish McIntosh may come cheap?

I would like Zac Clarke, averages a goal a game, quite servicable in hitouts to advantage, very athletic.

He is exactly the type we should be looking at. McIntosh is like Minson. Where do they play when not rucking? Clarke is a natural forward who can ruck. freo would never let him go but that is the type. Same as Stanley. I actually dont think we need another senior ruckman. We need a hack in the reserves.

I think a lot of clubs will look at Zac, he appears behind Sandi and Griffen at the moment.

Also from Melbourne, so may be able to lure him back, 22 years old.

Perfect fit.

Well we would have to get rid of BJ to get him. How would you feel about that?

[SainterK]

Because?

[plugger66]

Because?

I would think it is very obvious. Salary cap.

[bergholt]

David Hille is still my preferred option, if we can get him for $200k a year for a couple of years. Not bad forward, though not amazing, and still solid in the ruck. Could fill Kosi's spot or McEvoy's spot when required. And I believe he's been relatively durable? No downside really, if he wants to come.

At least he can play forward. The question is why get a 30 year old unless we can challenge in the next 2 years?

Depends if you subscribe to the theory of bottoming out or not. You have three options if you want a guy who won't get in McEvoy's way from a development perspective:

- get a kid who won't be ready for years; the Daw/Blake McGrath/Luke Van Rheenen option
- get a reject or state league mid-ager; the Pattison/Stephenson option
- get an old guy who won't expect to play every game; the King/Clarke option

Option 1 means you still don't have a backup, as it can actively harm a kid's development to play them too early. Option 2 just means you take up a list spot with someone you don't actually want ever to play. Option 3 at least gives you a solid backup with no real downside.

[Old Mate]

Ben and Stanley first choice options and Kosi about to re-sign. We need a cheep backup option as insurance or a more versatile big man who can play at least one other position - back/forward as well as ruck.

[ROLS-LEE]

How many possy does big mac avg?

Does the 1%ers that he contributed out weights first possesions to our mids by winning the ruck contest.

Big questions needs to be answered by our selection group.

[plugger66]

How many possy does big mac avg?

Does the 1%ers that he contributed out weights first possesions to our mids by winning the ruck contest.

Big questions needs to be answered by our selection group.

What are those questions? Ben has had a very good year IMO.

[SainterK]

Because?

I would think it is very obvious. Salary cap.

Why BJ though?

[plugger66]

Because?

I would think it is very obvious. Salary cap.

Why BJ though?

Because he is the only one on big money who looks like they may leave. Unless we get rid of Kosi or Gram and neither looks likely.

[BigMart]

Minson is nearly Hopeless....

[saint6709]

Zac Clarke for sure - not sure he's available but way ahead of minson - who i also think can play -But Clarke is only 22 is 202cm an athlete and from oakleigh chargers - bring him home !!

[MCG-Unit]

David Hille is still my preferred option, if we can get him for $200k a year for a couple of years. Not bad forward, though not amazing, and still solid in the ruck. Could fill Kosi's spot or McEvoy's spot when required. And I believe he's been relatively durable? No downside really, if he wants to come.

At least he can play forward. The question is why get a 30 year old unless we can challenge in the next 2 years?

Hille would be my preference as well, can ruck, play forward, and is quite mobile. Now behind the younger Ryder and Bellchambers, whereas Minson is WB main ruck.
First game back for a while and played very well against Coll on the week-end. Unless Ess plan to use him in a trade him for Caddy

Maybe Saints think they will challenge in the next 2-3 years.

[Toy Saint]

Me and Grant Thomas reckon ruckmen are overrated. But I really like Big Mac, he's great value around the ground, and will almost certainly improve at the tap-outs. Stanley really excites me, he could be a damgerous forward or an oversized wingman, and he too will improve in the ruck.

Teams like Essendon have proven that THREE one dimentional ruckman in one side, cause the team to be too slow in this modern game.

We have had Kosi & Blake to pinch hit, and even Beau Wilkes has had a run on the ball.

So, I agree with P66, we should not spend $450k on Minson

[mad saint guy]

No way would I want St Kilda spending that much on a ruck. Really we want someone out of state leagues or an opposition ruck either down the pecking order with potential to improve or nearing the end but still competitive. McEvoy and Stanley are the future rucks of St Kilda, we just need a cheap, capable backup if one of them is unavailable.

Previous examples of what we can do would be Gardiner (talented, cheap, lots of baggage), King (unwanted but capable), Hudson (talked out of retirement) and Giles (dominating state league). Salary for the backup ruck should be no more than 100k per season if recruited from another club or base wage if drafted.

[ROLS-LEE]

How many possy does big mac avg?

Does the 1%ers that he contributed out weights first possesions to our mids by winning the ruck contest.

Big questions needs to be answered by our selection group.

What are those questions? Ben has had a very good year IMO.

To be honest, the way big mac plays, I reckon blake is better around the ground and the same at hitouts.

So the question I ask is what is more important, around the ground and fill in the hole down back (defemsive) or win many hit out plus and be dangerous forward (offensive).

Most winning GF teams have offensive ruckman than defensive ruckmen bar hawks in 08

[saintsRrising]

I suppose it depends what you class as important in rucking. I like the around the ground work and Ben is one of the best at that. You obviously class tap outs as important and Ben struggles there. I still say Stanley is the idea second ruckman. i just think we need a back up hack in the seconds.

Solution:

Stanley to take most of the centre bounces

Then swaps with Ben, who rucks (follows) till the next bounce.

This would give Ben about 80-90% of the ruck.

[ROLS-LEE]

So
Big mac avgs 12.2 disposals and 25.3 hitouts per game (16 games) 0.4 goals per game
Kosi 9.1 disposals and 4.6 hitouts per game (19 games) 1.4 goals per game
Blake 14.2 disposals and 7.2 hitouts per game (13 games) 0.2 goals per game
Stanley 10.1 disposals and 6.2 hitouts per game (12 games) 0.9 goals per game
Kreuzer avg 12.2 disposals 22.5 hitouts per game (20 games) 0.5 goals per game drafted same year as Big mac
Minson avg 13.8 disposals and 31.8 hitouts per game (21 games) 0.2 goals per game
Zac Clark 11.7 disposals and 8.1 hitouts per game (14 games) 0.9 goals per game
Hille 14.1 disposals and 13.0 hitouts per game (9 games) 1.0 goals per game

Cox 16.0 disposals and 25.4 hitouts per game (22 games) 1.2 goals per game
Nic Nat 13.1 disposals and 25.2 hitouts per game (20 games) 1.1 goals per game
Jolly 11.1 disposals and 31.9 hitouts per game (17 games) 0.6 goal per game
Mumford 10.5 disposals and 27.7 hitouts per game (14 games) 0.8 goals per game

I suppose looking at these stats that Big mac does ok for his age. What is the worry though is Kosi as backup ruck.
Those total stats are horrific.
Also I dont believe Stanley should ruck either as he is in the same mould as Roo.

So Plugger66 is correct, we need a better second ruck, but not stanley and def not Kosi.
If we can not get one I rather keep Blake than the two above

[Con Gorozidis]

Im also with p66 here . Unless nicnat or cox decide in some religious awakening they are rabid saints there simply is no saviour ruckman out there (except as a figment of peoples imagination). We simply wont do better than the Big Mac/Stanley combo. And throwing good trades or draft picks after one wont change that. So best we spend our limited pennies elsewhere. A back-up ruck in the pattison mould in case of extreme emergency is our best spend at this point. Id rather spend our limited resources on a young tall fwd and a tall key defender. And you can never have enough quality mids who can kick.

[bergholt]

A back-up ruck in the pattison mould in case of extreme emergency is our best spend at this point.

"extreme emergency"? more like guaranteed eventuality. mcevoy was injured for six weeks this year and stanley for eleven. from round 6 to round 20 there was only one week where they both got on the park, and three weeks where neither were fit.

the question isn't if we'll need to use the backup, it's how many games they'll have to play for. would you have been happy with pattison playing 14 games this year? i wouldn't, my standards are higher than that.

[gringo]

Khan Haratuku, ruck forward knows the guys from Sandy already and has come on since we dumped him. Leigh brown mark II? Don't think he would cost much and is at the age where he's already played a bit but still coachable.