That was the end of the hope which sprung in 2003

[joffaboy]

How anyone can post tripe like this after hearing Scott Watters outlining his plans for (quote) "OUR football club" is beyond me! I decided to commit to the Saints when they got their last wooden spoon in 2000. I really think that some of you need to get a grip! (IMHO ) Thank God that the players and coaches have a wee bit more G&D than some of our supporters!

Its the ADHD generation Jiggler. They want what they want IMMEDIATELY and then cry like babies when they dont get it.

You are right with Watters. He is a realist and basically said there will be pain for the next 12-24 months while the club reloads.

But look at the right moves in just 12 months.

With average DP's we have had

Milera
Saad
Newnes
Dunnell

All first season players getting a game

We have had Wilkes show glimpses, Gwilt and Lenny back from ACL's showing good form and we have had continued improvement of Armo, Jack, and cameo appearances of Stanley (whom you can NOT be excited about) and Ledger.

We have a core of older players who are at their prime or just past it who will guide the process though over the next 12-36 months and we ABSOLUTELY have the right blokes in Watters and Pelchen who have their eyes on the big picture.

So be deflated (Lord knows I have been since the final siren of GF1 2010), but keep your nerve. We wont go down the Bulldogs or Melbourne paths, I am sure, but we are in for some dissappointing seasons.

BUT....we will be back and in the top four and once again going for that 2nd flag.

Keep the faith.

[Teflon]

I see nothing wrong with looking back at what might have been if that is part of how one moves forward - I don't think it's gutless or makes anyone less of a fan tbh

I have strong memories of going to the footy over these past 12 or so years - starting with 100 point hidings in early 2000's by a Bombers side..... But I sat there watching a skinny blonde kid show glimpses of what was to come... hope sprang forth and tbh that's all I needed. Now those same Bomber fans do similar to me with Hurley.... the wheel turns

It may be only a few years or it may also be a decade or more before once again OUR team is on the AFL Grand Final stage , regardless I'll be there. I can't wait for the pre game interview with a plump Nick Riewoldt talking bout how in his day at St Kildare things were so much different and how proud he is of this new side with superstars x, y and z...

Lyon was bang on - this era is closed.

[ralphsmith]

Won't lose nerve, nothing will stop me following this team.

Just reflecting over the great hope that started in 2003 and ended on Friday night against the cats. The wheel turns, the next generation must be found now.

Yes i love Scott Watters, he has turned us into a more attacking and exciting team.

Agonizingly close

[dragit]

Just reflecting over the great hope that started in 2003 and ended on Friday night against the cats.

If we are fair dinkum though, the end of that 'era' was nearly 2 years ago.

Since the 2010 GF 2, we've only won half of our matches, hardly premiership material. Most of us have been living off the memories of 2009 for a long time.

At the very least, it ended in the elimination final last year. It's okay, all good sides come to an end, the cats lost many grand finals before breaking the drought, the pies lost 2 before dropping down for awhile…

It's not about accepting mediocrity, it's about coming to terms with reality. I get a bit sick people saying that we accept losing too easily, for the next few years we simply won't have the list to make the top 4… it's got nothing to do with attitude or game plans.

[Kick-it-lace-out]

What a wonderful 10 years, but yes, I'm afraid it has ended with the trophy cabinet still bare.
For all the good that Ross Lyon did (and he did a lot of things well), he left the StKFC in a worse position than when he arrived.....he managed to get the playing group to crawl over broken glass for him, but when HIS playing group needed him most, he deserted them, and yet they still remain loyal to him!! I will never forgive you Ross and I hope you never experience premiership success elsewhere.

[dcstkfc]

Will be our tenth consecutive year of 11 or more victories, an incredible achievement.

[I Love Peter Kiel]

I hope for a Flag; I live for a Flag. But I don’t follow the Saints on the understanding that there will necessarily be another Premiership in my lifetime.

I follow the Saints because they were my local team growing up. And I go to the footy to watch the Saints because it’s something that gives me great enjoyment and has done so for 40 years now. I love meeting up with my mates for a few beers before the game and cheering on the team in their pursuit of 4 points. To me it’s a ritual and all I’m looking for is a win each week. Where we end up at the end of the year is simply where we end up.

What happens in 2013 and beyond won’t affect my support of my club or my attendance at matches. After all, like many on here, I’ve been through the 70s, 80s and 90s.

I can’t change things and all I can do is back those who are empowered to run the club, both on the ground and off it. I think those blokes, particularly Watters and Pelchin, know exactly what they’re trying to achieve. But it’s a funny old game, with rules and regulations and luck with drafting and injuries. So at the end of the day there are no guarantees.

But I do think we’re on the right track.

I share the optimism and agree we've got good people at the club.

But I think the point was this group of players probably won't achieve a flag.
We all love the ritual of going to the game.
We all love the Saints.
But it'd just be easier to go every week while loking back on one or two flags.
And it burns me up to think that Scarlett and Chapman will leave the Cats with three Premierships....one of which they stole from us.

[I Love Peter Kiel]

PS the other thing that annoys me about Geelong is they whinge and moan about losing the GF in 2008.
They'd already won one, and they've won two since then.

[Scollop]

I was crushed when Aaron Hamill was forced to retire. I was distressed when GT was sacked. I was devastated when Goosey Maguire and Xavier Clarke were told they were no longer required. I was stunned and dazed that we weren't giving more games to our youngsters when they clearly showed they had some spark and some talent to create an x-factor for finals.

I was crushed when Bally was made to feel like he wasn't good enough to assist the team in getting to the summit again. I was overwhelmed that we picked up Patto and Jese Smith in 2009 and couldn't believe that our footy club had recruited even more recycled hacks in 2010.

.............................but I was hopeful when Ross Lyon left St Kilda

[bigred]

The era ended last year Vs the swans in the elimination.

Rossy was already coaching Freo.

He did a lot with the list while he was here. But topped up too much.

And we will have to carry that for a few years yet.

For what it's worth I think Lyon f***ed us. I do carry a grudge about it.
Deplorable list management. Wringing every last drop out of the best dozen players just hid the damage.

Now Watters has to rebuild around his graveyard. No easy task.

[Teflon]

Agree Big Red

If Watters somehow, miraculously has us challenging in the next 3 yrs then IMO his coaching stocks soar considerably

Have seen nothing to change my view that Ross coaches for NOW.... will be interesting at Freo when Pav, McPgarlin, Sandilands go....

[SainterK]

Agree Big Red

If Watters somehow, miraculously has us challenging in the next 3 yrs then IMO his coaching stocks soar considerably

Have seen nothing to change my view that Ross coaches for NOW.... will be interesting at Freo when Pav, McPgarlin, Sandilands go....

Agree.

They are much older than our 'core' when Ross arrived.

[dragit]

Agree Big Red

If Watters somehow, miraculously has us challenging in the next 3 yrs then IMO his coaching stocks soar considerably

Have seen nothing to change my view that Ross coaches for NOW.... will be interesting at Freo when Pav, McPgarlin, Sandilands go....

Agree.

They are much older than our 'core' when Ross arrived.

They have a few older veterans (like we did Fraser, Harvs & Hamil), but their emerging core is actually very young and very experienced considering…
Morabito, Fyfe, Roberton, Pearce, Suban, Hill, Clarke, de Boer, Mayne - all under 24, most of whom have played 50 games.
There are also some very good players 27 or under - duffield, mundy, mzungu, broughton, ballantyne, barlow…

Make no mistake, Ross has walked into a super list - again.

[SainterK]

Agree Big Red

If Watters somehow, miraculously has us challenging in the next 3 yrs then IMO his coaching stocks soar considerably

Have seen nothing to change my view that Ross coaches for NOW.... will be interesting at Freo when Pav, McPgarlin, Sandilands go....

Agree.

They are much older than our 'core' when Ross arrived.

They have a few older veterans (like we did Fraser, Harvs & Hamil), but their emerging core is actually very young and very experienced considering…
Morabito, Fyfe, Roberton, Pearce, Suban, Hill, Clarke, de Boer, Mayne - all under 24, most of whom have played 50 games.
There are also some very good players 27 or under - duffield, mundy, mzungu, broughton, ballantyne, barlow…

Make no mistake, Ross has walked into a super list - again.

Yeah but most of them aren't KPP's

Those three guys are integral to any flag tilt IMO.

I think Clarke may be teased away from Freo, is in line behind Sandi/Griffen....even Bradley it seems.

I'd like the Saints to chase him.

[dragit]

Yeah but most of them aren't KPP's

Those three guys are integral to any flag tilt IMO.

I think Clarke may be teased away from Freo, is in line behind Sandi/Griffen....even Bradley it seems.

I'd like the Saints to chase him.

Enter Travis Cloke…

I think Clarke would be worth chasing for sure.

[SainterK]

Yeah but most of them aren't KPP's

Those three guys are integral to any flag tilt IMO.

I think Clarke may be teased away from Freo, is in line behind Sandi/Griffen....even Bradley it seems.

I'd like the Saints to chase him.

Enter Travis Cloke…

I think Clarke would be worth chasing for sure.

Absolutely fits what they need, I just can't see Cloke leaving mum and dad to be honest...

Richmond/Demons for mine.

[Chef attack]

TO me, the resurgence all started in 2003. The coming together or greatness was there to see. After the miserable Watson and Blight years things were going to get better.

At that time, we had young.
Nick Riewoldt
Luke Ball
Xavier Clarke
Nick Dal Santo
Justin Koschitzke





Promising young chaps, who when matured would probably lead us to a flag.


We had the great man Robert Harvey.
Still had Aussie Jones running around.
Aaron Hamil.
Lenny what a f****** legend Hayes




Had this bloke.


Goddard came the next year but took a while to find his feet.

Such hope came from seeing this group of players come in as kids, mature into elite superstars and come so so close to getting this club its second flag. But they didn't.
Too many annoying what ifs always circulate in my mind.

I won't rant too much, but our core group has risen now they have fallen. No grand final win. Damn it is frustrating.
I still had hope for a last hurahh this year, but too many atrociously umpired games have kept us out of the hunt.

I think the players completely lost heart after being robbed by the umpires against collingwood. You could see it last week against the dees.

The camera focused on Nick Riewoldt in the coaches box last night and he had that horrible look knowing he'll never play in a premiership.

And yes, it had to be Geelong to put the final final final nail in the coffin of our hope. Had to be f****** 3 f****** premierships geelong. That f****** team we dominated in 2004. Don't they just specialise in pouring salt in the wound?

Frustration.

I feel very sorry for Scott Watters now. He has inherited a declining list and will probably Tim Watson the team, through no real fault of his own. Just came in at the wrong time and in 2 years will have a list of total duds / old crippled men.

Don't be a neg head! We've done well

[skeptic]

I think what this highlights is the importance of drafting... SPECIFICALLY getting your 1st round pick right. That's the trick to the rebuild... the bottoming out clubs that have nailed the first pick have done well whereas the ones that ala WCE, whilst a club like Melb which hasn't done as well has struggled. Richmond has really struggled but on the back of getting the last few drafts right finally look to be moving up.

Review us for that period...
Riewoldt easily the best of his draft and Kosi whilst not the clear no2 (Burgoyne, Didak, Petrie, Kerr, Newman) he's cleary amongst the top 6-7 and we've got really good value for him.

Ball, Dal, Monty, X, Maguire - it's well documented just exactly how much better we could have done that draft but by the same token - Dal and Monty have both been exceptional value and we got our use out of Maguire.
Ball was very good at number 2 initially (until he got injured) and his departure for nothing is the ultimate determining factor in that being a failed pick... X was an ok choice on form until injuries derailed him too.
Goddard was a clear no 1 in his draft

Raph Clarke was a repectable no 8 with number of better players either side but has outlasted the majority

Whilst not a great player, McQualter was really good value at pick 17 with only about 5 players taken after him providing better value (LeCras, Gwilt, Ivan Maric, Pratt and Knights)

2005 = Sam Gilbert at 33 was pbly the best player left minus Andrew Swallow at 43 (doh) though we may have picked a gem had we kept pick #17 (Watts)

That's actually the cornerstone of the period of success that we had through this era... we did it really well however ultimately though I think our failure with our immediate top picks in 2001 draft was pbly the difference between a few trophies and a few close runs.

Then you look at the period that followed
2006 - Armitage (J.Riewoldt, Frawley following shortly after)
2007 - McEvoy (Rioli, Dangerfield, Harry Taylor)

Both decent players but clearly not the best at their picks

2008 - Lynch (Shuey, Ballantyne, Trengrove, Zharakis, Redden, Beams) - clear fail
2009 - Winmar (Christenson) - very weak late draft

Success follows getting the top picks right - it looks as though we're doing okay'ish recently but really IMO I really hope we're developing our recruiting team

[older saint]

I think what this highlights is the importance of drafting... SPECIFICALLY getting your 1st round pick right. That's the trick to the rebuild... the bottoming out clubs that have nailed the first pick have done well whereas the ones that ala WCE, whilst a club like Melb which hasn't done as well has struggled. Richmond has really struggled but on the back of getting the last few drafts right finally look to be moving up.

Review us for that period...
Riewoldt easily the best of his draft and Kosi whilst not the clear no2 (Burgoyne, Didak, Petrie, Kerr, Newman) he's cleary amongst the top 6-7 and we've got really good value for him.

Ball, Dal, Monty, X, Maguire - it's well documented just exactly how much better we could have done that draft but by the same token - Dal and Monty have both been exceptional value and we got our use out of Maguire.
Ball was very good at number 2 initially (until he got injured) and his departure for nothing is the ultimate determining factor in that being a failed pick... X was an ok choice on form until injuries derailed him too.
Goddard was a clear no 1 in his draft

Raph Clarke was a repectable no 8 with number of better players either side but has outlasted the majority

Whilst not a great player, McQualter was really good value at pick 17 with only about 5 players taken after him providing better value (LeCras, Gwilt, Ivan Maric, Pratt and Knights)

2005 = Sam Gilbert at 33 was pbly the best player left minus Andrew Swallow at 43 (doh) though we may have picked a gem had we kept pick #17 (Watts)

That's actually the cornerstone of the period of success that we had through this era... we did it really well however ultimately though I think our failure with our immediate top picks in 2001 draft was pbly the difference between a few trophies and a few close runs.

Then you look at the period that followed
2006 - Armitage (J.Riewoldt, Frawley following shortly after)
2007 - McEvoy (Rioli, Dangerfield, Harry Taylor)

Both decent players but clearly not the best at their picks

2008 - Lynch (Shuey, Ballantyne, Trengrove, Zharakis, Redden, Beams) - clear fail
2009 - Winmar (Christenson) - very weak late draft

Success follows getting the top picks right - it looks as though we're doing okay'ish recently but really IMO I really hope we're developing our recruiting team

Mcevoy was ona needs basis as needed a young long term ruck ( who i think at the end of the career will be a star )
Armitage - again had Roo, Kosi , Hamill did not need a big forward or back at that stage.

Lynch defintely and winmar - weak draft but looks like a bad decision

[spert]

The club is in good hands with Watters- the guy is a real thinker and appears to be excellent at mentoring individual players to get the best from them. I compare that to Lyon who is basically a simple one-trick-pony coach..get a mature team who is almost there, and get them playing a disciplined game plan right now, and that's it, no thought of the future or succession planning. Lyon's plan is predictable and breakable, and ultimately will have no premierships as he just aint clever enough, and in effect, Thomas was probably a better coach. Looking forward with positivity now to Sainters 2013

[clarky449]

The club is in good hands with Watters- the guy is a real thinker and appears to be excellent at mentoring individual players to get the best from them. I compare that to Lyon who is basically a simple one-trick-pony coach..get a mature team who is almost there, and get them playing a disciplined game plan right now, and that's it, no thought of the future or succession planning. Lyon's plan is predictable and breakable, and ultimately will have no premierships as he just aint clever enough, and in effect, Thomas was probably a better coach. Looking forward with positivity now to Sainters 2013

Bet you thought different when he was with us.
Ross isint a "real thinker" lol, funny. Pretty sure Ross can get the best out of players. We did make Grand Finals with players that usually would never play in a Grand Final. I doubt Lyon had no thought of the future, hence him playing young kids (when they werent injured) last year. Thomas must of been a better coach, makes sense. Do you know much about footy.

[mbogo]

Thomas had a team of fit youngsters - with some great veterans and let them run and do their thing - and all credit for that. However, he did not do much as a coach when it mattered for mine. I seem to remember lots of bad decisions re - ruckmen, Milne, Harvey and being so arrogant that he had to control everything.
Lyon was a much better coach and clearly got the best from the team, especially in close matches. And this is the measure of a great coach - even today - no one thought Freo had a chance - and Freo against us - he choked our style and won the game regardless of dodgy umpiring. I do not think we did too much to keep Ross either - we just seem to get "over" certain players and key people - and just let them walk.
I am not sure, myself that Harvey would not have been as good as Watters. But maybe time will tell.

[skeptic]

Mcevoy was ona needs basis as needed a young long term ruck ( who i think at the end of the career will be a star )
Armitage - again had Roo, Kosi , Hamill did not need a big forward or back at that stage.

Lynch defintely and winmar - weak draft but looks like a bad decision

Hi OS, thanks for the reply.

Your correct by all means... I'm not really having a dig at those selectios per'se

just saying that when we got them 100% correct in the 1st round, we've done better in the long term

Armo and McEvoy weren't dud choices by any means but by the same token neither are super stars... they're both reasonably good players in a reasonably good team

[kaos theory]

15 players improving significantly next year:

Armo
Steven
Siposs
Stanley
Newnes
Saad
Simpkin
Malera
Cripps
Ross
Ledger
McEnvoy
Dunell
Wilkes

Key stars maintaining form.
Milne
Lenny
Roo
Dal
BJ
Monty
Fisher
Dempster

Mid-teir improving/maintaining form:
Gwilt
Schnider
Gram
Geary
Gilbert

A few new picks, perhaps a KP back and another backup ruckman....plus better drilled game plan, improved fitness, full pre-season with new coaching team that will be more settled.

Therefore, we are ready for one more tilt at the big one next year....a serious chance next yr....

[ralphsmith]

Steven has questionable kicking ability. If that can improve he may become Dane Swan esque. Highly doubtful of that, personally.

Sipposs is the most promising. Saad is very good.
Malera excellent skills, but needs some more discipline.
Stanley, unfortunately will have a career of injuries. He is too fragile, his frame is not suited to the game well enough.

The rest of the young guys are obviously up and coming good ordinary players. Justin Peckett types. Wont lead us to premierships but will lead us to position 9-12 on the ladder.


We need stars ,we need champions because the ones we have now are too old to take us further. They dont have the desire or the physical capability any more.
We need players with excellent kicking ability great peripheral awareness and the will to give their all.

Over to you Pelchen and Watters.