Roos says Saints have Underachieved

[Jacks Back]

Paul Roos on On The Couch last night said that the Saints had underachieved this year given the caliber of our 6 or 7 top players.

Is he just having another swipe at us or is he fair dinkum?

Do you Agree or Disagree?

I don't like saying it but I think he's right.

Agree.

[fingers]

I think if you just look at some of the losses this year we have definitely unerachieved. Port, Freo, Richmond. - These should have been 3 wins.

[philtee]

Agree. Didn't help that his mate did a runner.

[Life Long Saint]

With Riewoldt, Dal Santo, Goddard, Fisher, Hayes, Milne, Schneider and Montagna as front line players plus the development of McEvoy, Stanley and Steven plus the depth of Blake, Gilbert, Gwilt, Gram, Ray and others there is no way we should have missed the finals.

Our inability to stop goals has been the killer for us and it starts in the middle.
We've shown in every game we've played this season that we can stop the opposition scoring and sometimes for long periods but our consistency in achieving that goal has cost us. Friday night showed it in spades...For one quarter we stopped Geelong from kicking a goal. But only managed to kick 3.7 ourselves. Too many times when we've dominated play we have failed to hurt the opposition on the scoreboard. And that is what has killed us in too many games this season. West Coast, Sydney, Collingwood, Adelaide, Fremantle and Richmond to name a few.

My fear now is that with the core that extra year older we have, well and truly, missed the boat.

[Buckets]

The real question is where did he see the Saints finishing at the start of the year?

[saintspremiers]

Agree. Didn't help that his mate did a runner.

Faark Lyon. That's not the biggie.

The biggie is losing Dawson. With him, I reckon we would've made the 8.

[saintspremiers]

The real question is where did he see the Saints finishing at the start of the year?

New coach meant I had no real gauge. Was hoping bottom half of the 8, which is where we should've finished.

Of course, there weewe a few premiership dreamers that are always overly optimistic.

[dragit]

My fear now is that with the core that extra year older we have, well and truly, missed the boat.

We missed the boat 3 years ago, all of those 5-6 core players are already 2 years past their best.

Our draw this year virtually guaranteed us 8 wins… (port, GC x 2, WBD x 2, Melb x 2, GWS) which we lost one of…
The fact that we've only managed to win 2-3 more is pretty damming, we're just not a good side, this list is in shambles. Playing patches of good football doesn't mean much…

We need to get our heads out of the sand, there are at least 8 better sides than us at the moment, with a few more building, while we are still going backwards expecting a bunch of 30 year olds to play like 25 year olds.

[Saints43]

I think if you just look at some of the losses this year we have definitely unerachieved. Port, Freo, Richmond. - These should have been 3 wins.

I agree with this. To be in so many winning/winable positions and miss finals is an underacheivement.

But, I think Watters has done a good job in his first season. I will be very interested to see if they can re-jig our list and tidy up the movement of the footy for next season.

[dragit]

I think if you just look at some of the losses this year we have definitely unerachieved. Port, Freo, Richmond. - These should have been 3 wins.

I agree with this. To be in so many winning/winable positions and miss finals is an underacheivement.

But, I think Watters has done a good job in his first season. I will be very interested to see if they can re-jig our list and tidy up the movement of the footy for next season.

You could say the same thing about Richmond, they lost 3 in a row by under a goal and a few more they could have won.

[Teflon]

My fear now is that with the core that extra year older we have, well and truly, missed the boat.

We missed the boat 3 years ago, all of those 5-6 core players are already 2 years past their best.

Our draw this year virtually guaranteed us 8 wins… (port, GC x 2, WBD x 2, Melb x 2, GWS) which we lost one of…
The fact that we've only managed to win 2-3 more is pretty damming, we're just not a good side, this list is in shambles. Playing patches of good football doesn't mean much…

We need to get our heads out of the sand, there are at least 8 better sides than us at the moment, with a few more building, while we are still going backwards expecting a bunch of 30 year olds to play like 25 year olds.

Hard to tell

I expected Milne/Riewoldt and Hayes to falter majorly this year.... whats scary is they all had good years and we didn't make the 8.... why?

I think these guys will inevitably slow up but how quickly is the question and more importantly how quickly can we put improved skilled younger players around (cause I suspect next year Milne/Riewoldt/Hayes best will still be good enough to contribute as good players.. maybe not gods...)

If you look at the output of guys like Kosi (45 goals last year) and Goddard, Montagna went AWOL for a while plus the fact we introduced a few new faces to AFL footy.... the drop off in being a drilled, consistently strong defensive team becomes clearer.... it surely must take time for a Milerra, Siposs, Saad, Dunnel, Newnes etc to understand and then excel in that role (this is where I've been impressed with Simpkin..... seems to already understand) I'd also suggest even Steven/Armo are still learning the art of running both ways.

For me outside the obvious KPP holes in defense/Ruck we lack midfield depth

[nobhead]

The real question is where did he see the Saints finishing at the start of the year?

just remember this last year we made the 8 with 12 wins
this year we will have a minimum of 11 wins / possibly 12 and miss out
injuries to good players eg chips, schneids, rhys,macca,blakey,etc....
no dawson
first year coach
different game plan
all in all this is about where i expected us to finish . you have to be realastic in terms of where our list is at , another good clean out at seasons end ,salary cap relief and some early draft picks and we will be back up there . don'"t subscibe to the argument that it is an end of an era . we just have to be smart in the way we manage our list.

[hAyES]

The difference in the age bracket of our players was too much. Seemed like all of our players were either 19 or 28 which means its a lot of second and first year players to go with those stars and at this stage of their early careers it was too much. Watters did some experimenting with the list as well, throw in key injuries to places where we have no depth and we were never going to make it.

And Roos just doesn't like us because his boyfriend left. He didn't like it last week when Mike said we were the best team out of the 8, take what he says with a grain of salt.

[thefatdork]

The real question is where did he see the Saints finishing at the start of the year?

just remember this last year we made the 8 with 12 wins
this year we will have a minimum of 11 wins / possibly 12 and miss out
injuries to good players eg chips, schneids, rhys,macca,blakey,etc....
no dawson
first year coach
different game plan
all in all this is about where i expected us to finish . you have to be realastic in terms of where our list is at , another good clean out at seasons end ,salary cap relief and some early draft picks and we will be back up there . don'"t subscibe to the argument that it is an end of an era . we just have to be smart in the way we manage our list.

Nice post.
I agree with you and think that with good list management, some younger players stepping up AND a bit of luck we can well be up there again sooner than many think.
I like Watters and reckon we are on the right path. He has openly recognised our deficiencies and is looking to address these. It is a shame that he had only just started as coach when draft/trade week was happening last year - so he probably didn't have a full sense of the club's personnel and then had to coach with what he was presented with. He'll have much more influence in guiding our recruiting this time round.
I see a lot of positives ahead but we may need some patience.
GO SAINTS!!
Thefatdork

[dragit]

11 wins is pretty flattering, 2 x gcs, 2 x wbd, 2 x melb, gws, bris… we beat carlton & essendon when everybody was beating them, in the end we will probably only have had one win against a top 8 side… Sydney… it shouldn't be a mystery that we missed the finals.

[elizabethr]

Roos is an unashamed apologist for his partner Lyin and cannot be taken seriously on ANY subject remotely related to his pin-up boy.

[bergholt]

The biggie is losing Dawson. With him, I reckon we would've made the 8.

this comment sank like a stone, but it's basically true. stick zac down back in our side for 22 games this year and the structure of the whole thing changes - s fisher provides more run from defence, gwilt isn't rushed back and has more confidence in kicking out when he does play, blake doesn't get stuck down back so stanley doesn't ruck so much so avoids the injury against west coast... also simpkin wouldn't have played as many games (which is a bad thing, i guess).

but we would have won a few more and finished easily in the eight. all thanks to zac.

[dragit]

The biggie is losing Dawson. With him, I reckon we would've made the 8.

this comment sank like a stone, but it's basically true. stick zac down back in our side for 22 games this year and the structure of the whole thing changes - s fisher provides more run from defence, gwilt isn't rushed back and has more confidence in kicking out when he does play, blake doesn't get stuck down back so stanley doesn't ruck so much so avoids the injury against west coast... also simpkin wouldn't have played as many games (which is a bad thing, i guess).

but we would have won a few more and finished easily in the eight. all thanks to zac.

Yes and although everyone bags zac, he is a fast tall back, something we have none of…

Considering we kept Peake, Clarke and Polo for a combined 10 games this year we really could have kept Dawson if we'd wanted to.

[St Chris]

… we beat carlton & essendon when everybody was beating them....

Carlton were 5 and 1 when we played them in Round 7....
Essendon were 10 and 3 and hadn't lost for a month....

I dont think either of them were travelling too badly when they played us.

Anyway, the last few years we've been pretty much neck and neck with the Bulldogs, with narrow Prelim final wins against them, and probably finishing in similar position for most of the last 5 years.

They've fallen off the pace rapidly, we've managed to stay with the pack in most part. I wouldn't be surprised if we had a similar 2013 as the Bullies 2012, especially if we become victims of free agency. Then the rebuild begins, and I think they will probably rebuild quicker as they got a few decent father-sons in the last 2 years.

[dragit]

… we beat carlton & essendon when everybody was beating them....

Carlton were 5 and 1 when we played them in Round 7....
Essendon were 10 and 3 and hadn't lost for a month....

I dont think either of them were travelling too badly when they played us.

Anyway, the last few years we've been pretty much neck and neck with the Bulldogs, with narrow Prelim final wins against them, and probably finishing in similar position for most of the last 5 years.

They've fallen off the pace rapidly, we've managed to stay with the pack in most part. I wouldn't be surprised if we had a similar 2013 as the Bullies 2012, especially if we become victims of free agency. Then the rebuild begins, and I think they will probably rebuild quicker as they got a few decent father-sons in the last 2 years.

Can look at it both ways I suppose,
The blues won 2 from their next 8 and the bombers have won only one match since… both decimated by injuries & neither are contenders in any shape this year.
Although gallant all year, I think we've already fallen away from the pack, but it has been masked by a very soft draw… one win against a (final) top 8 side says it all.

[SainterK]

I think if you just look at some of the losses this year we have definitely unerachieved. Port, Freo, Richmond. - These should have been 3 wins.

I agree with this. To be in so many winning/winable positions and miss finals is an underacheivement.

But, I think Watters has done a good job in his first season. I will be very interested to see if they can re-jig our list and tidy up the movement of the footy for next season.

This sums up how I feel.

He has already appeared to make some hard calls, ball use appears to be key with him and Pelchen tends to share similar views on players. If they can pick up a couple of handy types to fill some holes, and continue to develop some good users/cool heads like Dunell, Siposs, Newnes...

Football has become to hard to predict when it comes to teams as a collective, and where you see them in a years time. Many had Cats gone in 2010, West Coast not even looking like challenging for years, and Sydney on the decline.

Scott appears to think 2013 will be about challenging for finals, I'll be on board.

[SainterK]

The biggie is losing Dawson. With him, I reckon we would've made the 8.

this comment sank like a stone, but it's basically true. stick zac down back in our side for 22 games this year and the structure of the whole thing changes - s fisher provides more run from defence, gwilt isn't rushed back and has more confidence in kicking out when he does play, blake doesn't get stuck down back so stanley doesn't ruck so much so avoids the injury against west coast... also simpkin wouldn't have played as many games (which is a bad thing, i guess).

but we would have won a few more and finished easily in the eight. all thanks to zac.

Or we could of found the up tempo style of play exposed him.

Not sure how he'd have gone under Watters GP to be honest, the ball came in much quicker this season....that coupled with a consistent lack of midfield pressure at times this season, reckon even SOS would of struggled

[SaintPav]

The biggie is losing Dawson. With him, I reckon we would've made the 8.

this comment sank like a stone, but it's basically true. stick zac down back in our side for 22 games this year and the structure of the whole thing changes - s fisher provides more run from defence, gwilt isn't rushed back and has more confidence in kicking out when he does play, blake doesn't get stuck down back so stanley doesn't ruck so much so avoids the injury against west coast... also simpkin wouldn't have played as many games (which is a bad thing, i guess).

but we would have won a few more and finished easily in the eight. all thanks to zac.

Yes and although everyone bags zac, he is a fast tall back, something we have none of…

Considering we kept Peake, Clarke and Polo for a combined 10 games this year we really could have kept Dawson if we'd wanted to.

yep, that still stumps me.

[plugger66]

I had us between 7th and 10th so about where I thought. Next year baring getting some experienced players I would think 10th to 13th. I know people say you dont have to drop down but when you have champions in your side they just arent replaced. Hayes and Milne have been great this year. Surely they have to go a little backwards. Other stars wont improve and no matter how much we pump up our young guys they still will not change our year.

We have had some unlucky losses but by the end of the year we will have beaten one or maybe two finals sides. Not good enough to say we have made any advances forward and again we hardly got any injuries.

[spert]

My fear now is that with the core that extra year older we have, well and truly, missed the boat.

We missed the boat 3 years ago, all of those 5-6 core players are already 2 years past their best.

Our draw this year virtually guaranteed us 8 wins… (port, GC x 2, WBD x 2, Melb x 2, GWS) which we lost one of…
The fact that we've only managed to win 2-3 more is pretty damming, we're just not a good side, this list is in shambles. Playing patches of good football doesn't mean much…

We need to get our heads out of the sand, there are at least 8 better sides than us at the moment, with a few more building, while we are still going backwards expecting a bunch of 30 year olds to play like 25 year olds.

Exactly right, many core players are on the way down and they can't maintain intensity for four quarters like they could say in 2009