One thing I love about Watters

[gringo]

Some people just prefer walking backwards.

[Fazer]

2009 was great.

2010 was like masturbating with a cheese grater.

If Watter's doesn't equal Lyon's first year record then we are all stuffed.

We need a draw asap.

......And some bandages

[stinger]

One thing I love about Scott Watters ... and it is straight from the Mick Malthouse handbook ...


His treatment of young players.


He gives them a decent opportunity. You are not selected for 1 game to fill someone else's place and then straight back to the reserves.

Examples include:

- Dunnell: has been given three games in a row. Has started as the sub but has been given opportunities three games in a row, and IMO he has improved in each match. Has started to find his feet and actually show what is possible.
- Newnes: played 3 in a row and then 2 in a row. Had some continuity. Showed a lot, particularly against the Tigers. Was actually asked to perform an important role as a small defender.
- Saad: not so young, but was given 5 in a row to start with and this was a solid opportunity where he really showed what he was capable of. Has used that to cement his place in the team for the rest of the year.
- Cripps: played 5 in a row and then 3 in a row. Crucially did not start all games as the sub, but had a couple of full matches where he could learn.
- Milera: had 13 in a row, enough said. Will be a player.
- Siposs: had 2 in a row and then 3 in a row. Won a Rising Star with this opportunity.
- Stanley: had 8 in a row. Gave him confidence. Really found some form pre-injury.

The exception is Ledger but that has been discussed elsewhere (played Round 2 only).


All these guys have really grown in confidence with their opportunity.


The other reason I like it is because when the kids come in, they are expected to be a valuable part of the side and play a role. Not just exciting youth, but contributing to the team and to the structures.

Watters have managed to give great exposure to our list this year, whilst maintaining a good balance of experience. IMO for this aspect of his coaching in 2012, he gets a 9/10.

on the down side he has given wilkes more than one game....

[Austinnn]

I love the way he has gotten us to the lofty heights of 10th.

Was getting bored with all those GF appearances with that hopeless Lyon who refused to play anyone new ever because he was so crap.

Yay, we might be out of the eight, but look at that %

Nothing to do with that. Pointing out a positive about Watters does not mutually exclude also being positive about Lyon or the last 5 years.

I loved Lyon and I still do. I actually think he would have played a lot more kids last year had they not all been injured for large parts of the season. And I still think he will enjoy significant success with Freo.

-----------------

Ledger had a great pre-season and got plenty of opportunities.

In the early part of the year through until May/June, his skin folds grew by a significant amount and his training intensity dropped off.

The coaching staff demanded that he get his skin folds under control before he would be considered for selection again.

His selection as an emergency last week shows that he has responded and the coaches have recognised this. They still rate him highly.

Source: current player

Best response on this forum. Thank you. More posts from you please!

[Scollop]

Nothing to do with that. Pointing out a positive about Watters does not mutually exclude also being positive about Lyon or the last 5 years.

Spot on.

This is a thread about loving Watters; not about hating Lyon.

Spot on.

That other thread about hating Lyon is called; 50 reasons why I hate Ross

[saintsRrising]

At a moment in time, what is right can be quite different.

Lyon when he arrived was just what the Saints needed. He turned a talented, but at times downhill skiing team, into a ruthlessy hardworking unit who through that sheer high workrate and innovative gameplan was able to overcome some clear team structural deficiencies and lack of quality depth in the 22.

Other team gameplans evolved, and change was required. The saints landed Pelchen and IMO that created a rift between Club and Lyon which led to his departure.

However IMO it was also a sliding doors moment that looks to have gained us a coach that is right for the current times. An era where greater attack and fast play-on gains greater reward.

The playing of kids had already begun the year prior, as much as anything due to the reality that after many beret years, that their was simply more good young talent at the club. Under just one draft period under Pelchen this had been expanded an aided by some slightly older pick ups in Saad, Milera and Dunnell.

The recruiting of Pelchen is important too, for apart from the draft /trade in the immediate year prior the Saints had just come out of extended period in both the Lyon and GT eras where our drafting of kids was below average. So good trades in the Lyon era kept our head above water.

However a team that had over the years under Beveridge taken scant notice of footskills at the draft table was being increasingly left behind in an era where the game has evolved to make this as a critical success factor.

Only from Lyon's last draft period have we since seen footskills given greater weighting. You can see the Pelchen forumala on display at the Hawks at present where their younger crop of players are uniformally not just good kicks, but great kicks.

With our current playing group we still have many good older players who have quitea few years let in them. But some revitalisation, and a fresh and different outlook could help to re-energise them, if the right coach could be found that could gel with them. Someone who would contrast with Lyon's no-nonsense top-down approach.

So with Watters we seem to have gained the right coach at the right time.

[plugger66]

At a moment in time, what is right can be quite different.

Lyon when he arrived was just what the Saints needed. He turned a talented, but at times downhill skiing team, into a ruthlessy hardworking unit who through that sheer high workrate and innovative gameplan was able to overcome some clear team structural deficiencies and lack of quality depth in the 22.

Other team gameplans evolved, and change was required. The saints landed Pelchen and IMO that created a rift between Club and Lyon which led to his departure.

However IMO it was also a sliding doors moment that looks to have gained us a coach that is right for the current times. An era where greater attack and fast play-on gains greater reward.

The playing of kids had already begun the year prior, as much as anything due to the reality that after many beret years, that their was simply more good young talent at the club. Under just one draft period under Pelchen this had been expanded an aided by some slightly older pick ups in Saad, Milera and Dunnell.

The recruiting of Pelchen is important too, for apart from the draft /trade in the immediate year prior the Saints had just come out of extended period in both the Lyon and GT eras where our drafting of kids was below average. So good trades in the Lyon era kept our head above water.

However a team that had over the years under Beveridge taken scant notice of footskills at the draft table was being increasingly left behind in an era where the game has evolved to make this as a critical success factor.

Only from Lyon's last draft period have we since seen footskills given greater weighting. You can see the Pelchen forumala on display at the Hawks at present where their younger crop of players are uniformally not just good kicks, but great kicks.

With our current playing group we still have many good older players who have quitea few years let in them. But some revitalisation, and a fresh and different outlook could help to re-energise them, if the right coach could be found that could gel with them. Someone who would contrast with Lyon's no-nonsense top-down approach.

So with Watters we seem to have gained the right coach at the right time.

You really love blaming Bevo when clearly peake set us back much further than bevo ever did.

[matrix]

[bergholt]

Ledger had a great pre-season and got plenty of opportunities.

In the early part of the year through until May/June, his skin folds grew by a significant amount and his training intensity dropped off.

The coaching staff demanded that he get his skin folds under control before he would be considered for selection again.

His selection as an emergency last week shows that he has responded and the coaches have recognised this. They still rate him highly.

Source: current player

obviously none of us can verify this but it sounds like a very logical sequence of events. everyone on the team has to realise that there are certain non-negotiables to success, and if this was what it took for ledger to realise then it's a great piece of work by the club. i hope ledger realises that they've done him a favour and builds from this to become a real star.

[bigred]

more of it.

[joffaboy]

JB has an issue with ppl criticising RL for boring football

as a result, any attempt to try things differently meets this type of response

Wrong. I did not like the Lyon style of football.

What I did like was the results.

I really think Scott Watters is a long term prospect for the Saints. I like his gameplan, as a coach he is also impressive.

I will absolutely fall in love with Watters if he can get the results Lyon got.

As for comparing 2007 and 2012 - pfft.

Look at the injury list Lyon worked with that season compared to this season.

Once he had a list to select from in 2008 we made top four three years running.

But hey dont let annoying things like fact get in the way.

Watters is going OK. But hasn't delivered the results and this is a results driven game.

Does that mean I think he is no good? Hell NO.

I believe that Watters needs to be there for the next five years AT LEAST.

He knows we may have one more shot in 2013 and then it is the slippery slope down the table for three or four.

He needs clear air to be able to achieve it. And yes his handling on the younger players at his disposal has been pretty good.

I really think he and the Pelchan have a long term strategy that will take to 2016-2017 to come to fruition.

I wonder, how many of you will call for his sacking between now and then. I'm guessing a fair few.

[SainterK]

You seriously saying 2007 was because of injury and not adjustng to the new GP?

So Dal and Milne were dropped why?

Watters has had his share of significant injuries, but above that he has inherited a veteran list with guys that Ross enjoyed in their prime now 30 years old or more.

Try to look at it objectively JB, and don't feel you always have to shoot down any thread that mentions Watters and the word love.

[Dr Spaceman]

I don’t think there’s any doubt that the Jury is still well and truly out on Scott’s coaching ability.

However I don’t see that as being any reason why someone cannot start a thread entitled “One thing I love about Watters”. Nor should it stop others from posting similar thoughts.

Success or otherwise will become obvious as our journey progresses.

In the meantime, if people are liking certain things that SW’s doing, then that’s fine by me.

[joffaboy]

You seriously saying 2007 was because of injury and not adjustng to the new GP?

Tell me the injuries the team had in 2007 compared to this season?

So Dal and Milne were dropped why?

Was that in 2007? Dont think so.

Watters has had his share of significant injuries, but above that he has inherited a veteran list with guys that Ross enjoyed in their prime now 30 years old or more.

Tell me when Watter had 25 on the list to choose from the way Lyon did on at least two occasions in 2007

Try to look at it objectively JB, and don't feel you always have to shoot down any thread that mentions Watters and the word love.

lol - lecturing on objectivity. I am entitled to my thoughts on the love for a coach whose team is tenth after said team had missed the finals once since 2003.

People convienently forget the massive injury list Lyon had to deal with (also the ongoing Butters/ Thomas fued). Watters has had significantly less injuries, a battle hardened team and a stable administration.

And who are the players over 30 that have dropped off - Lenny? Playing as well as the past 4-5 years. Blake, playing as well as ever. Kosi? Playing his best season in years (only 29 BTW). Joey, bj, Dal ( all under 29) still playing with the same output.

Riewoldt was injured in 2010 and a cripple last year. Young players Mac, Armo, Jack and Sipposs another year developed.

lol on objectivity

[skeptic]

JB has an issue with ppl criticising RL for boring football

as a result, any attempt to try things differently meets this type of response

Wrong. I did not like the Lyon style of football.

What I did like was the results.

I really think Scott Watters is a long term prospect for the Saints. I like his gameplan, as a coach he is also impressive.

I will absolutely fall in love with Watters if he can get the results Lyon got.

As for comparing 2007 and 2012 - pfft.

Look at the injury list Lyon worked with that season compared to this season.

Once he had a list to select from in 2008 we made top four three years running.

But hey dont let annoying things like fact get in the way.

Watters is going OK. But hasn't delivered the results and this is a results driven game.

Does that mean I think he is no good? Hell NO.

I believe that Watters needs to be there for the next five years AT LEAST.

He knows we may have one more shot in 2013 and then it is the slippery slope down the table for three or four.

He needs clear air to be able to achieve it. And yes his handling on the younger players at his disposal has been pretty good.

I really think he and the Pelchan have a long term strategy that will take to 2016-2017 to come to fruition.

I wonder, how many of you will call for his sacking between now and then. I'm guessing a fair few.

Awfully big conclusion to draw from the 20 odd words I posted

because of RL's results, you become somewhat defensive when ppl argue that he could have done things better. The 09 grandfinal being a good example... because the players missed a lot of very gettable shots you simply will not accept that RL could have coached better on the day even despite the fact that himself acknowledges he made a mistake. But that argument has been done to death.

This was simply a post praising a positive of SW yet you took it on as a slight to RL which I don't believe it to be. Hence my original post

[spert]

RL= no premierships at St K, so let support SW, as he seems to be a quick learner and I have confidence in him.

[matrix]

wow this thread is starting to bring back memories of when gt was booted and rl took over

[joffaboy]

JB has an issue with ppl criticising RL for boring football

as a result, any attempt to try things differently meets this type of response

Awfully big conclusion to draw from the 20 odd words I posted

because of RL's results, you become somewhat defensive when ppl argue that he could have done things better. The 09 grandfinal being a good example... because the players missed a lot of very gettable shots you simply will not accept that RL could have coached better on the day even despite the fact that himself acknowledges he made a mistake. But that argument has been done to death.

This was simply a post praising a positive of SW yet you took it on as a slight to RL which I don't believe it to be. Hence my original post

First you assert I dont like critism of Lyon due to his boring football, then you say its all about the 09 GF?

look at your first post. You categorically stated that it was about boring football, but now you completely change it to about his coaching in the 09 GF.

You are completely and hopelessly wrong (on both confused arguments BTW).

i deconstructed your silly assertion in quote No.1

Now for number two. I argue that the Saints were 7.7 to 7.1 at halftime with most of those behinds easily gettable.

I argue that Lyon cant kick for them.

i argue that stupid coulda, woulda, shoulda arguments are fatuous and specious as they are not based on fact but subjective opinion.

Fact - Saints players licked us out of the GF in 09. 7.7 to 7.1 is an undeniable FACT.

Poorly argued subjective emotionalism - Lyon could have coached better. No facts, totally unprovable.

Fact - Scott Watters has his team sitting 10th on the table and possibly missing the finals for only the second time since 2003.

Dont assert mistruths to me, you will get clobbered.

[Dr Spaceman]

Fact - Scott Watters has his team sitting 10th on the table and possibly missing the finals for only the second time since 2003.

And quite possibly making the finals.

Which would be a reasonable effort considering someone (whose name escapes me ) suggested 2011 was the "end of an era".

[dragit]

Fact - Scott Watters has his team sitting 10th on the table and possibly missing the finals for only the second time since 2003.

And quite possibly making the finals.

Which would be a reasonable effort considering someone (whose name escapes me ) suggested 2011 was the "end of an era".

Do you mean the guy that missed the finals in his first year coaching us in 2007? For the first time since 2003?

[Leo.J]

What's this thread got to do with Ross?

[Dr Spaceman]

What's this thread got to do with Ross?

For some (most?) of us; nothing.

[joffaboy]

Fact - Scott Watters has his team sitting 10th on the table and possibly missing the finals for only the second time since 2003.

And quite possibly making the finals.

Which would be a reasonable effort considering someone (whose name escapes me ) suggested 2011 was the "end of an era".

Do you mean the guy that missed the finals in his first year coaching us in 2007? For the first time since 2003?

No he means the guy who had 25 on the list to choose from on more than one occasion in 2007 and couldn't put his plans in place until 2008 when he secured a top four spot for the team.

He certainly didn't have the run Watters has had with injury and we are still languishing in 10th spot, even with Rooey back to almost his best, Kosi playing the best he has for years, Lenny still going strong, Dal and Joey still in their prime, Jimmy, Armo, Mac and Jack more mature.

Lyon, after he fixed the appalling fitness issue of the previous administration, got us to top four three years running, and the Grand Final twice in a row. The lack of respect you people show to his coaching prowess is incredible, only mirrored by the slavish and fullsome praise for Watters.

If you only knew what Paul Roos does about the reasons Lyon left, you may have a bit more understanding.

But go ahead, heap praise on Watters for his tremendous accomplishments so far - because, hey look at our wonderful %. Probably best % of a 10th placed side ever.

[Dr Spaceman]

But go ahead, heap praise on Watters for his tremendous accomplishments so far - because, hey look at our wonderful %. Probably best % of a 10th placed side ever.

Like I said:

I don’t think there’s any doubt that the Jury is still well and truly out on Scott’s coaching ability.

However I don’t see that as being any reason why someone cannot start a thread entitled “One thing I love about Watters”. Nor should it stop others from posting similar thoughts.

Success or otherwise will become obvious as our journey progresses.

In the meantime, if people are liking certain things that SW’s doing, then that’s fine by me.

[SainterK]

Strengths Weaknesses


I reckon they both have their fair share in each column.