Scott blames the mids, is that entirely fair?

[SainterK]

St Kilda coach Scott Watters said his midfield had been beaten.

"[It was] probably one of the first times this year when I really think our midfield lowered their colours," Watters said.

"And that puts the rest of your game under enormous pressure.

HITOUTS

42 v 29

HITOUTS TO ADVANTAGE

14 v 6

INSIDE 50s

67 v 53

Let you decide which was which.

Is it fair to blame the mids?

[dcstkfc]

What he says in a press conference and what he means are two different things. I'd say he'd be disappointed with some of the centre clearance work, the defensive running and the use of the footy in the third quarter. But personally I thought we had losers on every line: Dal Santo, Montagna, Goddard, Milera, Saad, Koschitzke, Clarke, Gilbert, Riewoldt and Blake

[Winmar]

I was thinking about the mids after the game. The defence wasn't super bad, yet we conceded over 130 points. A fair chunk of the responsibility must fall on the midfield. It's a far cry from the old days of defending from the front with forward pressure.

[Scollop]

No - not fair. The selectors need to take responsibility. Sipposs should be played unless he's injured. Simpkin too - Tom has done nothing wrong and didn't deserve to be dropped. It's strange how there seems to be a starting line-up so you have to play all senior players and some of the up and comers...

If you have to have 4 mainly small forward options...Out of Saad, Millera, Milne and Schneider, I don't think these guys helped in rotations like CJ or Fazza might have. Also...we needed CJ or Ray to be there today for the tagging job to restrict Wells or Swallow.

Blake and Raph and Gram all get a game because they're fit but was it the best option for the back half...the selectors also have to play Kosi (in their mind he only misses if he's unfit, but was it the best option against North Melbourne?) If Macca is first ruck and Stanley plays both ruck and forward, then why have all three big blokes? If you are not prepared to play Stanley for the whole match and if the plan was to sub him - then he shouldn't be a starter!!

[WellardSaint]

Team effort. Whole team must wear it. In the horrible eighties, the players did not gel and there was reportedly lots of friction. Everyone needs to put there hand up. BTW Stanley apparently injured the hammy.

[Johnny Member]

Defensively, the midfield was appalling.

The run that North had through the middle was extraordinary.

Clearance stats are merely one part of a midfields responsibilities. North zoned up really well through the middle, and none of our mids really tried to take them on and break a line. Defensively on the rebound, our mids didn't work hard enough and didn't tackle hard enough to stop their run.

[Eastern]

When the opposition kicks 20 goals you are not going to win many games of footy !!

[Johnny Member]

The question is though, why did they kick 20 goals?

Game plan? Selection? Lack of ability? Midfield? Defence?

[spert]

Defensively, the midfield was appalling.

The run that North had through the middle was extraordinary.

Clearance stats are merely one part of a midfields responsibilities. North zoned up really well through the middle, and none of our mids really tried to take them on and break a line. Defensively on the rebound, our mids didn't work hard enough and didn't tackle hard enough to stop their run.

Exactly.. Two games in a row where our mids and forwards just let their opponents run off and link up far too easily. This puts far too much pressure on the back line.

[PJ]

Apart from about 4 players I'd suggest blaming the team as a whole.

[bergholt]

The question is though, why did they kick 20 goals?

Game plan? Selection? Lack of ability? Midfield? Defence?

67 inside 50s is why they kicked 20 goals. 3.5 to 1 is about a par score so they did slightly better than that, and that's because most of their shots were pretty easy ones. Why? Because the entries were quick and central.

Someone was allowing them all these inside 50s - the midfield. Having Gilbert in there doesn't help as he's not a midfielder and never will be. But zero inside 50s between Dal and Montagna is a pretty unlikely course of events. And while I thought Armo's game was OK, 3 contested possessions, 2 tackles and 56% disposal efficiency doesn't look great. CJ would have helped, no doubt.

Just a bad day? Or is this a sign of things to come?

[8856brother]

Too many players spellbound by "see ball, get ball". It's good in a way, but it hurt us badly yesterday. IMO too many of our guys were diving at the ball or flying in the air to spoil at the same time. We don't need 3 to jump at every marking contest.

North were smarter than us yesterday. They didn't commit too many numbers to the contests. They backed themselves to win the ball, and also had a bit of luck at times to win one on twos, and sometimes one on three contests.

When they won the ball our guys were left flat footed around the contest while they had players on the outside to create mayhem. It wont work all the time for them but it was devistating yesterday and made us look ordinary. They way we turnover the ball, by the way, makes the job even harder.

[skeptic]

in the context of the match, when the mids were actually winning ball and delivering it forward properly... we were on top

it's hard to blame the KP forwards when they get no decent delivery.

that being said, Kosi was poor and Roo beaten but with quick ball movement, we were kicking goals from general play

[Teflon]

Too many players spellbound by "see ball, get ball". It's good in a way, but it hurt us badly yesterday. IMO too many of our guys were diving at the ball or flying in the air to spoil at the same time. We don't need 3 to jump at every marking contest.

How many times did we see that? Is there any cohesion? talk? FFS so often "all up" all fall down.....Nth ran off with it.....just Auskick style of play at the elite level FFS...

[SainterK]

Defensively, the midfield was appalling.

The run that North had through the middle was extraordinary.

Clearance stats are merely one part of a midfields responsibilities. North zoned up really well through the middle, and none of our mids really tried to take them on and break a line. Defensively on the rebound, our mids didn't work hard enough and didn't tackle hard enough to stop their run.

HITOUTS TO ADVANTAGE

14 v 6

[66 Saints]

Defensively, the midfield was appalling.

The run that North had through the middle was extraordinary.

Clearance stats are merely one part of a midfields responsibilities. North zoned up really well through the middle, and none of our mids really tried to take them on and break a line. Defensively on the rebound, our mids didn't work hard enough and didn't tackle hard enough to stop their run.

Areas Jones excels in...hopefully his absence enables the other midfielders recognise there deficiencies.

[samoht]

We've lost our one strength, that run off half back we could always rely on a couple of years ago.
Remember when Gilbert, Goddard, Fisher, Gwilt were each getting their 20 -25 possessions plus and running and bouncing or kicking the ball well clear and setting play up.
Let's hope we can get it back soon.

Also agree with Ray definitely needing to be recalled. Ray seemed to be getting back to his best this year.

[defacto]

our problems begin and end in the spread. our mids do not run hard enough in the change of transition which hurts us even more when turn overs occur.

how many goals did north kick because their mids were able transition better!!!!

[66 Saints]

We've lost our one strength, that run off half back we could always rely on a couple of years ago.
Remember when Gilbert, Goddard, Fisher, Gwilt were each getting their 20 -25 possessions plus and running and bouncing or kicking the ball well clear and setting play up.
Let's hope we can get it back soon.

Those players where able to get 20-25 possessions because of the pressure being put on further up the ground leading to rushed forward entries they could pick off. Midfield pressure needs to lift.

[8856brother]

our problems begin and end in the spread. our mids do not run hard enough in the change of transition which hurts us even more when turn overs occur.

how many goals did north kick because their mids were able transition better!!!!

Agree. I don't call it transition though. North have plenty of "front runners". The little squib Harvey is the best in the comp at it, and has been for years. Looks fantastic when you're up and going. Wont always look so good when they lose clearances or don't get some lucky ones like they did yesterday. That's why their form is all over the place. We were ordinary and still kicked 100 points against them.

[samoht]

Midfield pressure does have something to do with it too, I'm not discounting that, and maybe our lack of midfield leg speed didn't help vs North. The will may be there but the leg speed isn't.
but -
If we had that old dash off halfback (plus the 120 possessions we used to get just from Fisher, Gwilt, Gilbert, Goddard), then maybe our mids would in turn be spreading to receive and running just a little harder too.
Our halfbacks were our springboard.
Our springboard has snapped in two.

[Teflon]

If midfield pressure suffers from lack of leg speed/spread.......then get nervous cause Bombers speed/fast ball movement is slicker than Nths........this could get ugly..

[SainterK]

I guess the idea of the thread was a discreet way of saying is it the ruckman?

[samoht]

If midfield pressure suffers from lack of leg speed/spread.......then get nervous cause Bombers speed/fast ball movement is slicker than Nths........this could get ugly..

Essendon have proven that even as a bottom of the ladder team, they could still blitz us with their pace.
Prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

[Teflon]

I guess the idea of the thread was a discreet way of saying is it the ruckman?

Its a massive worry...Scott alluded to it in the presser I thought...did not look happy with ruck.......I fear we have a ruck rover in a 200cm frame who cant win a tap to save himself.......round the ground is nice........but you canet concede hit outs to advantage every week to try and make it upr round the ground cause u are always reacting and not taking initiative.