Having let the emotions subside

[Buckets]

I wanted to post last night but thought that it be best to let the alcohol and passion subside, probably a wise move.

Looking at last night's game it is quite easy to just look at the negatives and see this as a lost opportunity and one that will cost the team a place in the finals.

Of course there are those already baying for blood of certain individuals and that's understandable we are all passionate supporters who love the club and want it to succeed. However reading over threads today I think some may have gone over the top.

Yes I was highly disappointed in the effort and execution of some of the players last night and at times thought that we looked disorganised down back and poor in the ruck. I thought our kicking for goal was poor and that really cost us the game, not to mention some really soft frees we gave away in both the second and third quarters where we were really applying the pressure and looking to press the advantage.

After the game I reflected on how far this team has come and the excitement this team now provides.

Looking at some of the players:

Ben - looked rusty and showed that 6 weeks off with the injury had an impact on his ability, however he slowly got more of a presence in the second half not because his opponent was tired but more because he was gaining match fitness and confidence in the knee. And could someone please teach the umps how to do a centre bounce? I swear they needed to call back at least 7 but only called one, cost us more than one goal.

Sam - Looked out of sorts for a portion of the game, came into it in the last when they finally were able to get him as the loose man something that really needed to be done a lot earlier!

Roo - I have no idea what happened but his injury did not help his cause last night, but there were times when he was more focussed on his opponent rather than the ball, and his kicking again let him down. When the run on in the last came about he really should have gotten that holding the ball decision on Dangerfield but somehow didn't....still can't fathom that one. Oh and how in the world did he get called for in the back when the opponent deliberately bent over to throw him off??

Raph - Should never ever be the spare man! Did some good things and bad things but he wasn't alone in the backline.

Kosi - Was ok in the ruck up forward was lost, really need to forget him as a leading forward, not quick enough.

Gram - Not a bad game, yes there were a couple of soft efforts but his run was needed and kept doing it. You could see his emotion when he missed the goal in the 3rd.

Jones - I'm in two minds about him at the moment. He is a tagger or he gives the spot up to Ledger IMO. He is lacking pace at the moment and opposition have realised that he will not hurt you offensively.

Dal - Can hold his head up high, was one of a handful that can say they played well.

Joey - Same as Dal, only needs to work on those kicks. Has he been doing kicking training with Gram?

Bj - Biggest disappointment for mine, he easily has a go at players who don't go in and put the body on the line, yet last night did that on a few occasions that resulted in turnovers and goals for the crows. Body language wasn't great and I'm starting to really question whether the contract talk is getting to him.

Schneider - Good second game back.

Blake - Just a poor night, but cut him slack he has been fantastic the last 5 weeks.

Gilbert - Ok night didn't see him as a liability down back.

Gwilt - A better game, however he will take time to get the confidence and run back, that knee injury has really made his game suffer.


We lost a big opportunity and it might really hurt us this year come finals. But can you answer me these questions:


1. Where did you have us finishing this year?

2. What did you want to see from the team and from Scott's coaching?




To be absolutely honest I'm excited about where this team is headed. We were 5 goals down with 10 minutes to go and with a little bit of luck and maybe the right umpiring calls - HTB on Dangerfield, push in the back against Milne, tripping on Steven with 2 minutes to go - we could have pinched the unlikely win against a team that sits Top 2 has dropped 2 games all year and were at the bottom half of the ladder last year.

Tell me how many games under Lyon did we show that sort of fight to not give up and nearly pinch games? I can honestly only think of one and that was the Essendon game in 2009. Watters is slowly but surely getting this team ready and I honestly believe that if we bring our best we can match it with most teams. Don't count us out just yet.

[SainterK]

1. Where did you have us finishing this year?

2. What did you want to see from the team and from Scott's coaching?

I'll be interested if you get any honest answers here Buckets.

Many of the people dishing out the most criticism had the least expectations this year.

[Buckets]

1. Where did you have us finishing this year?

2. What did you want to see from the team and from Scott's coaching?

I'll be interested if you get any honest answers here Buckets.

Many of the people dishing out the most criticism had the least expectations this year.

Well for me I thought that we would struggle this year to make the 8. Thought it would take time to get the structures and game plan in place ala 2007

I wanted a more attacking game from Scott and more balance, I'm happy to say we are getting that and more, and he isn't finished yet.

[gringo]

I thought Raph's game was very good and he took on players and drew his man, put himself on the line, was one of the few guys who ran into space and linked and generally took the game on. Gram was ok but a little quiet. agree Goddard doesn't have many bad games but that was one. Jones was actually good and his run was really important amnd did't look out paced- he actually looked like one that was making it to the contest, Roo was screwed on both those frees.

My beef with him is that he called himself fit when he wasn't and had to come off in the first couple of minutes and looked restricted. Kosi supposedly also playing injured was bad management. Two stagnant injured tall forwards is a liability, we would have been better to give Wilkes a run at least he could have made the contest in place of Kosi who only had about 2 genuine touches of any worth all night and with mac back not really neccessary.

Blake getting injured wasn't great on a night when we were a tall backman short already, he got destroyed but could have gone to Walker or another tall and swapped roles.

[BigMart]

Jones did a good job on Sloane, and then went to a rampaging Thompson.... He went OK

[saint6709]

I am ever the optimist with regard to Saints - pre season i saw them as being better then last year na d was happy to see Lyon go....why?
Last year some top flighters had shocking years - Roo, Gilbert, we had injuries - lenny, Gwilt our mid tiers had room for improvement - Jack, armo and some of our young guys weren't ready - stanly, sipposs, cripps, simpkin and we had some hope with new mature age recruits ( who have well and truelly outdone any expectations I might have had)
Re Lyon going - i think watters speaks very well - knows his stuff and there was also the potential of some attacking footy - say what you like re lyons record - I didn't enjoy watching it a lot of the time

Anyway as it stands now - i think we are a MUCH better team than last year - the ladder does not reflect this - and some tight losses might cost us a more successful year - BUT I think there is possibility of getting on a roll the second half of the season - and if we can turen it on in the finals - AND TAKE THE MOST OF OUR OPPORTUNITIES - ie convert a high % of of scoring opportunities - ANYTHING COULD HAPPEN - GO SAINTS

[Buckets]

But can we carry someone like Jones whose disposal is really bad under pressure, and his pace in terms of chasing last night just didn't seem up to Jones standard.

[pc_saint]

buckets

good post
couldn't agree more with you sober analysis of the game
it does help to stand back and see the game for what it was

we could have pinched that one, which would have been a great effort off the back of two interstate trips and a host of 6 six day breaks
the loss of Saad was, strange as it may seem with a guy who has only played a handful of games, was telling. His ability to break away and rove goals has been a revelation
he, along with Milera and Milne are a massive plus for our forwards
unfortunately for us last night Milera was rarely sighted, and Milnes defensive side has gotten worse. at times he makes the low percentage choices that hurt us on the way out

Rooey battled hard, obviously hampered by something, how the umpires consistently allow the defenders to run him into the ground after a mark, astonishes me
i thought those sort of tactics went out some years ago after the AFL got wise to Sheedys tactics of making sure the forwards get hurt so they are less likely to get up again
Kosi had a bad night, has been pretty good this year, unfortunately, he has missed a few goals in crucial games this year when we really need them. But he is not alone in that one, he had mates in Rooey and Milney last night
needless to say, if Adelaide had converted those shots in the last we wouldnt have even gotten close

our defence looks out of sorts at times, probably a symptom of the constant changes in personel of the last couple of weeks, the talls of Adelaide really hurt us
great to see Gwilt back and Sammy, not sure about Clarke, but the defense need more games together
but the amount of fast ball from the centre was the main problem, Ben was rusty but it i am glad to see him back in the side
dont know how many times Thompson was able to pump fat balls in , but it started to get annoying

one of the most annoying aspects of the game was the lack of tackling pressure we gave, very often we seemed to be running alongside or just behind the opposition, they seem to have the easy ability to break tackles at ease
maybe its the jungle juice that Adelaide are on, a bit like those west coast boys, we cant seem to lay a hand on the pumped up body builders they call footballers
we should probably call WADA in


its great to see the boys play with some flair, taking the game on at times and scoring quickly, it at least makes it an entertaining game to watch
not sure if we can allow a team to kick 15 plus goals against us though

nevertheless the can go into the break deserved of a good rest, reset, and have a good crack for the rest of the season

lets hope they can win more than they lose

[saintsRrising]

We need to win 7 out of 10 to play finals. We can do it BUT:

* Need to really improve our first quarters, which have been on average pretty dismal all year.
* Have to get Ben at least competitive.

We lose games like last night with just too many poor turnovers. Confidence plays a big part in this. Teams when they are flying make their own luck. Can we "click" better....will have to wait an see.

Finals this year will be a "Bradbury Year". Let's hope that we can get our skates on.

[Teflon]

1. Where did you have us finishing this year?

2. What did you want to see from the team and from Scott's coaching?

I'll be interested if you get any honest answers here Buckets.

Many of the people dishing out the most criticism had the least expectations this year.

Name them?

What a load of shyte.

Who cares what people thought we would do in feb?

Lets face facts now - we are 6/6 ,scored against heavily and injuries to ageing key players with serial offenders constantlly missing goals under pressure.

THATS the reality THATS why the coach is p!ssed (and so he ought to be) and thank the good lord the "rose colored gang" arent coaching this club we'd be happy with second best forever...

[Moods]

I had us between 6th and 10th this year. The pre-season filled me with dread - I thought we looked awful.

Now I enjoy watching the saints. I always enjoyed watching us win under Lyon, but losing was always an effort. I still reckon we can make the finals. In any event we have definitely moved fwd from last year I reckon. the coach says all the right things, and the players are giving their all. No-one means to miss goals. As a supporter it's bloody frustrating, even infuriating. But our style of play has me filled with confidence. I reckon we can tighten up up back once the back 6 get settled a bit more. I like the organisation up fwd, but would really prefer Kos to show the form he started the season with. I have confidence that Gilbo has turned the corner. With Saady back in two weeks and hopefully Stanley we should beat North and it will be a completely different type of team the bombers confront the game after to the one they have disposed of so easily these last few years.

Even if we just lose to the top teams, I can cop that. I can't cop insipid efforts. 1st half against the eagles and parts of the 1st quarter last night are the only two times I can say that.

[Teflon]

I had us between 6th and 10th this year. The pre-season filled me with dread - I thought we looked awful.

Now I enjoy watching the saints. I always enjoyed watching us win under Lyon, but losing was always an effort. I still reckon we can make the finals. In any event we have definitely moved fwd from last year I reckon. the coach says all the right things, and the players are giving their all. No-one means to miss goals. As a supporter it's bloody frustrating, even infuriating. But our style of play has me filled with confidence. I reckon we can tighten up up back once the back 6 get settled a bit more. I like the organisation up fwd, but would really prefer Kos to show the form he started the season with. I have confidence that Gilbo has turned the corner. With Saady back in two weeks and hopefully Stanley we should beat North and it will be a completely different type of team the bombers confront the game after to the one they have disposed of so easily these last few years.

Even if we just lose to the top teams, I can cop that. I can't cop insipid efforts. 1st half against the eagles and parts of the 1st quarter last night are the only two times I can say that.

So port was a 4 qtr effort?

Tigers kick straight qtr 1 and we were gonna get smashed.

Keep digging..

[To the top]

Gringo, Kosi was rarely at full forward - and you are correct, a leading full forward he has never been and will not be.

With Roo impeded, McEvoy being done over big time and Blake off after being done over big time in defence then in the ruck, Kosi was playing higher up the ground, rucking or resting.

The only time we sought to utilise his positioning around the centre was in the last when we mounted our come back - and Kosi was instrumental in that as we actually sought him out and his marking and ball usage by both hand and foot did not let us down.

Adelaide's spread and run did us damage.

The basic reason for this was that they controlled the rucks against both McEvoy and particularly when Blake went in there.

We were scrapping for clearances against the tide and. whilst successful particularly in the 2nd half, we were not as "smooth" as Adelaide because we had the ball against the tide and against numbers - Adelaide had it on the offensive and therefore on the spread looking far more dangerous than us.

In defence, Blake was comprehensively out played and Gwilt was under enormous pressure (although I would like to see both Roo and Kosi winning frees as easily as did the Adelaide forwards for interference against both Gwilt and Blake).

Geary is not up to this level.

The remainder of our defenders (Fisher, Gilbert, Clarke and Dempster) did all that could be asked of them given Adelaide's spread and the pressure a couple of our defenders were under.

They all showed courage going back into the contests and charging in for the pill.

All of Fisher, Gilbert, Clarke and Dempster took some top defensive marks under great pressure.

[SainterK]

Geary is not up to this level.

Curious, based on what?

Thought he was great when he came on.

Should of played the whole match really, even if it was up forward applying pressure.

[fingers]

Geary first game back from a smashed face....did well.

[Buckets]

1. Where did you have us finishing this year?

2. What did you want to see from the team and from Scott's coaching?

I'll be interested if you get any honest answers here Buckets.

Many of the people dishing out the most criticism had the least expectations this year.

Name them?

What a load of shyte.

Who cares what people thought we would do in feb?

Lets face facts now - we are 6/6 ,scored against heavily and injuries to ageing key players with serial offenders constantlly missing goals under pressure.

THATS the reality THATS why the coach is p!ssed (and so he ought to be) and thank the good lord the "rose colored gang" arent coaching this club we'd be happy with second best forever...

It's actually a fair question Teflon, where did you think looking at the fixture at the start of the year would we be at the bye. Has nothing to do with Rose coloured glasses. I think too many on here have been surprised by how the team is going but now expects more out of a first year coach.

No need to get snipy. You had your thead to vent. Now lets have a balanced analytical look.

[Buckets]

I had us between 6th and 10th this year. The pre-season filled me with dread - I thought we looked awful.

Now I enjoy watching the saints. I always enjoyed watching us win under Lyon, but losing was always an effort. I still reckon we can make the finals. In any event we have definitely moved fwd from last year I reckon. the coach says all the right things, and the players are giving their all. No-one means to miss goals. As a supporter it's bloody frustrating, even infuriating. But our style of play has me filled with confidence. I reckon we can tighten up up back once the back 6 get settled a bit more. I like the organisation up fwd, but would really prefer Kos to show the form he started the season with. I have confidence that Gilbo has turned the corner. With Saady back in two weeks and hopefully Stanley we should beat North and it will be a completely different type of team the bombers confront the game after to the one they have disposed of so easily these last few years.

Even if we just lose to the top teams, I can cop that. I can't cop insipid efforts. 1st half against the eagles and parts of the 1st quarter last night are the only two times I can say that.

So port was a 4 qtr effort?

Tigers kick straight qtr 1 and we were gonna get smashed.

Keep digging..

We kick straighter in the 3rd and we roll over the top of them.....your point?????

FFS

[SainterK]

1. Where did you have us finishing this year?

2. What did you want to see from the team and from Scott's coaching?

I'll be interested if you get any honest answers here Buckets.

Many of the people dishing out the most criticism had the least expectations this year.

Name them?

What a load of shyte.

Who cares what people thought we would do in feb?

Lets face facts now - we are 6/6 ,scored against heavily and injuries to ageing key players with serial offenders constantlly missing goals under pressure.

THATS the reality THATS why the coach is p!ssed (and so he ought to be) and thank the good lord the "rose colored gang" arent coaching this club we'd be happy with second best forever...

The coach would also be annoyed at his own mistakes.

Paid WAY too much respect to the Suns last week, all of Roo Hayes Milne and Kosi should of had a rest.

Also really should of played Geary all match when he withdrew Saad. That forward line delivered about what would be expected of a very 2009ish looking forward line, too tall, too flat footed.

Oh, and knock yourself out....

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=75407&p=1210119#p1210119

[Old Mate]

I had a few under my belt last night and posted....No regrets.

It doesn't matter what peoples predictions/expectations were at the start of the season, because we've been putting ourselves in winning positions and failed to get over the line. That's what's really pissed me off and likely others. Add to that, we've been beaten by some very, very ordinary teams I expected even at the start of the season to beat. The Port, Freo and Tigers losses come to mind. None are currently in the 8 and we lost to them all. Fkn pathetic if you ask me.

SainterK I use to love your positivity however quite frankly your last few weeks haven't been your best, you're in about as much form as Kosi. ATM you're driving me up the wall with your over positive BS.

[SainterK]

SainterK I use to love your positivity however quite frankly your last few weeks haven't been your best, you're in about as much form as Kosi. ATM you're driving me up the wall with your over positive BS.

I just criticised the coach, if that's over positive then guilty as charged.

Also just for future reference.

Control Panel
Friends and Foes

Knock yourself out, mate

[Old Mate]

Nope, I'm hoping you regain your form again cos you are very good value to the forum when not being so pushy with your over optimistic opinion.

[Buckets]

1. Where did you have us finishing this year?

2. What did you want to see from the team and from Scott's coaching?

I'll be interested if you get any honest answers here Buckets.

Many of the people dishing out the most criticism had the least expectations this year.

Name them?

What a load of shyte.

Who cares what people thought we would do in feb?

Lets face facts now - we are 6/6 ,scored against heavily and injuries to ageing key players with serial offenders constantlly missing goals under pressure.

THATS the reality THATS why the coach is p!ssed (and so he ought to be) and thank the good lord the "rose colored gang" arent coaching this club we'd be happy with second best forever...

Yep might as well live with the so so close of 2009 and 2010 grand final defeats...

[gringo]

i just watched the giants tigers game with tigers mates and found a player we should target at any cost. I would go as far as to trade goddard in a direct swap - Mohr which I was already impressed with until I watched him in a full competitive game. he is huge, skilled my assessment is a 6'4" full back Justin Sherman that loves a contest he will be a 200 game gun at full back. They will never let Johnny Patton go but he would be nice too. I facebooked his saints fan sister begging her to hassle him back home but i doubt we have a spare million. Cameron would be nice too.

[Teflon]

[quote="Buckets"]

How is it a fair question?
How is that relevant to last nights effort?

The coach today said "I am loathe to praise the come back...the game goes for 4 quarters.." honestly, people amaze me.

So we explain away efforts like last night with: "well we didnt think we were gonna go so well this year so half @ssed efforts for all but 12 minutes left are ok?"

Odd.

[Buckets]

Why come and try highjack the thread for own little rant. If you don't want to answer fine, be that way.

Did you even read the whole op or just grab the part you wanted????
Last time I checked I actually was critical of the players.
Why can't you be critical but also praise some parts. Or is that just to plain difficult to do?????


Oh and by the way did you hear Roo on Gameday...Calf in the first 3 minutes yet decided to play on for the full 4 quarters. Goes a long way to explaining his output all match. Hopefully up and firing for the Roos.