Feeling sympathy for Docker fans

[Toy Saint]

Their game plan is just so negative, their team is not fun to watch.

Their positive and creative energy has been sucked from them.

Their game plan drains so much energy, they will need to recurit marathon runners, who lack foot skills and lack dynamic speed.

Poor Docker fans

[thejiggingsaint]

You are joking of course?

[Ralphy]

Yeah well now ya know what we where like under toss.

[clarky449]

Im sure people thought that same in 2007 about us. How did we turn out then? Pretty good

[8856brother]

Im sure people thought that same in 2007 about us. How did we turn out then? Pretty good

You must be going into meltdown C449. About 4 threads of pure love for your boy.

[saintspremiers]

Im sure people thought that same in 2007 about us. How did we turn out then? Pretty good

You must be going into meltdown C449. About 4 threads of pure love for your boy.

Clarky can't make it to the Saints game on Friday night. He is off to Perth to show support to his bum-chum.

[hungry for a premiership]

It seems to me that this is what has happened:


Ross Lyon's gameplan worked with St.Kilda because all the role-players he brought in were effective because we had a large core group of superstars who could do the damage and actually win the games instead of just negate the opposition. Freo, on the other hand, DON'T have enough of the required superstar players to enable Lyon's role players and negative gameplan to be effective, they they just look absolutely AWFUL!!

ALSO we had a squad of completely proffessional, well-trained, well-disciplined players who all bought into the gameplan, whearas I question that the Freo players have really bought into Ross's gameplan the way our boys did and that they have the same high standard of commitment, proffessionalism and hunger for a flag as our core had/has.


I for one don't feel one iota of sympathy for Freo for swaggering in and poaching our coach and laughing thinking they had rorted us.

SUCKED IN FREMANTLE I AM NOW LAUGHING AT YOU for revealing to the football world your ignorance.

[3rd generation saint]

As I said elsewhere, we are exciting to watch, I am enjoying our new found ability to attack and willingness to score.
Fremantle fans have got the cheese graters we had last year and I hope they are enjoying it.
RL's gameplan is obsolete, it has been surpassed, and if he is really a great coach, he has to change his philosophy, or he will go down as a one trick pony who went extinct because he failed and refused to adapt.
Trust me, Fremantle wont need a get out clause if they think RL isn't the answer they thought he'd be.

[joffaboy]

Trust me, Fremantle wont need a get out clause if they think RL isn't the answer they thought he'd be.

Ask Harvey

[Dr Spaceman]

Trust me, Fremantle wont need a get out clause if they think RL isn't the answer they thought he'd be.

Ask Harvey

You never need a get out clause when they get out the claws.

[bigcarl]

Couple of things about Ross.

Unlike GT, he had a Plan B.

Unfortunately, unlike GT, he had no Plan A.

By which I mean playing an attractive brand of football and kicking a winning score.

[saintly]

It seems to me that this is what has happened:


Ross Lyon's gameplan worked with St.Kilda because all the role-players he brought in were effective because we had a large core group of superstars who could do the damage and actually win the games instead of just negate the opposition. Freo, on the other hand, DON'T have enough of the required superstar players to enable Lyon's role players and negative gameplan to be effective, they they just look absolutely AWFUL!!

ALSO we had a squad of completely proffessional, well-trained, well-disciplined players who all bought into the gameplan, whearas I question that the Freo players have really bought into Ross's gameplan the way our boys did and that they have the same high standard of commitment, proffessionalism and hunger for a flag as our core had/has.


I for one don't feel one iota of sympathy for Freo for swaggering in and poaching our coach and laughing thinking they had rorted us.

SUCKED IN FREMANTLE I AM NOW LAUGHING AT YOU for revealing to the football world your ignorance.

but oisn't one of the reaons why ro$$ left (besides the money) what that Freo's list was better then ours. we were going downhill, (end of an era etc) and freo was on the up????????????????

[Dr Spaceman]

It seems to me that this is what has happened:


Ross Lyon's gameplan worked with St.Kilda because all the role-players he brought in were effective because we had a large core group of superstars who could do the damage and actually win the games instead of just negate the opposition. Freo, on the other hand, DON'T have enough of the required superstar players to enable Lyon's role players and negative gameplan to be effective, they they just look absolutely AWFUL!!

ALSO we had a squad of completely proffessional, well-trained, well-disciplined players who all bought into the gameplan, whearas I question that the Freo players have really bought into Ross's gameplan the way our boys did and that they have the same high standard of commitment, proffessionalism and hunger for a flag as our core had/has.


I for one don't feel one iota of sympathy for Freo for swaggering in and poaching our coach and laughing thinking they had rorted us.

SUCKED IN FREMANTLE I AM NOW LAUGHING AT YOU for revealing to the football world your ignorance.

but oisn't one of the reaons why ro$$ left (besides the money) what that Freo's list was better then ours. we were going downhill, (end of an era etc) and freo was on the up????????????????

Maybe Freo are experiencing the end of an era

[Watts the Buzz]

Really loving going to the footy now - not so when RL was at the helm. I know he almost led us to that elusive second flag, but Jesus was that brand of football painful to watch. Can't help thinking that we may have snaffled a flag or two in the last 3 -4 years if we'd played with the flair that we're playing with now.

Anyway, rapt that Lyin has moved on (although I wasn't at the time) and I think we've landed a good one in Scotty Watters...

Go the Mighty Saints!

PS. Watching Freo now reminds me of those bad old days.......shame because I always thought Freo was very watchable - R.I.P. Purple Haze

[Teflon]

Its funny with all these people who "love going to the footy now" Lyons gone yet memberships are down 5k and Sat arvoI thought the crowd for Hayes milestone game was a tad down tbh.

I "love going to the footy" in 09 - knowing each week we would ultimately win cause we were to good and winning 19 straight.

Dont get me wrong - I think Lyons style is now outdated and the timing of his departure may work in our favour.......but winning is why you go to the footy...not for "nice looking losses"...

[Dave McNamara]

...Maybe Freo are experiencing the end of an era

Maybe Freo are experiencing the end of an error...?

[SainterK]

Its funny with all these people who "love going to the footy now" Lyons gone yet memberships are down 5k and Sat arvoI thought the crowd for Hayes milestone game was a tad down tbh.

I "love going to the footy" in 09 - knowing each week we would ultimately win cause we were to good and winning 19 straight.

Dont get me wrong - I think Lyons style is now outdated and the timing of his departure may work in our favour.......but winning is why you go to the footy...not for "nice looking losses"...

It was the scarves....

[Moods]

Its funny with all these people who "love going to the footy now" Lyons gone yet memberships are down 5k and Sat arvoI thought the crowd for Hayes milestone game was a tad down tbh.

I "love going to the footy" in 09 - knowing each week we would ultimately win cause we were to good and winning 19 straight.

Dont get me wrong - I think Lyons style is now outdated and the timing of his departure may work in our favour.......but winning is why you go to the footy...not for "nice looking losses"...

EXACTLY. People talk so much rubbish on here.

Let's face it before Ross came on board ppl were already predicting that we were on the way down. Especially after 08. We didn't play brilliantly in EVERY game in 09, but what RL style of play enabled us to do was hang in there even when we were playing crap. We were awful in 07 under Ross. Terrible in fact. Yeah we won a few games in the back half of the season, but very few were convincing. Even in 08 we made a prelim, but only won 13 games for the year and snuck into the top 4 on the back of the bombers playing their seconds against us in the last game. Ross was brought into the club to give us a shot at winning a flag. GT to my mind wasn't capable of that for whatever reason.

My point is it will take the Dockers a little while to learn what RL is on about and for it to become instinctive. Those who claim that our boys were/are sooo much more professional than the Dockers which is why we picked up the game style quicker are delusional. We didn't!

Let's be homest, RL certainly didn't lose the 09 GF for us - the players did with their terrible kicking. All the whining I read on here about Luke Ball not being on the ground in the last 1/4 of that game. I for one had no faith in Luke Ball doing anything when it really counted in the last 1/4. He hadn't all year, you go with your stars. Ross gave us the opportunity to grab the ultimate prize and we fluffed it with poor kicking. Other AFL clubs are still in awe of what Lyon achieved with the saints and many claim he changed the game more than any other coach in the past 30 years with the fwd press - which was copied by the pies and claimed as his own by Mick Malthouse.

He may have walked out on our club but I'm still bemused at all the angst directed at him. We should be thanking him. By far the best saints coach we've had in the last 30 years to date. As Teflon says, he's gone now, and even then I think he did us a favour. He had stayed his time and if he hadn't of walked we'd still have him. I'm convinced now more than ever that this would have been one year too many. He did a terrific job, and now we have another potentially great coach to take over.

[SainterK]

I'll play devils advocate here and give you an opposition view from bigfooty Moods, this is how neutrals appear to look at Ross and his era at St Kilda, just to spice up the convo a bit

In addition to being a blight on the game, if you look at his record in the cold light of day, what evidence is there that he is actually even remotely competent as a coach.

Think of it like this. St Kilda, from about 03 onwards, had the nucleus of a phenomenally good side. There was a stretch in '04 where they were unstoppable- basically, Kozzie, Reiwoldt, Gehrig, Milne crumbing, and a midfield with Hayes/Ball/Dal Santo, is always a very very strong group to build a team around.

Grant Thomas, who is generally acknowledged as something of a buffoon nowadays, took over as full time coach at St Kilda at a very low ebb in 2002, and after two years of building a side from a slew of draft picks delivered the following-
2004 - 3rd (denied top 2 on percentage, lost to the eventual premiers by a kick in an away prelim, basically they could have won the flag that year)
2005 - 4th (lost convincingly to eventual premiers Sydney in a prelim)
2006 - 6th (denied top 4 on percentage, first round elimination by Melbourne in a game replete with Saints injuries)

Ross Lyon, from 2007 onwards delivered the following:

2007 - 9th (percentage actually worse than 10th and 11th)
2008 - 4th (by a bees dick ahead of Adelaide at 5th, lost their QF by 10 goals, made it past 8th place Pies the following week, lost their prelim by 50 pts)
2009 - 1st (Deserved grand finalists, lost grand final by 2 goals)
2010 - 3rd (Won their QF by less than a kick, won their prelim convincingly, drew the GF)
2011 - 6th (first round elimination)

I think this is what happened. Ross Lyon took over a talented, top 4 side- arguably one of the most talented of the decade. It remained a talented, top 4 side, and just in terms of natural development as players become more experienced and enter the prime of their career, 2009 was probably the apogee. Realistically, St Kilda could very well have won a flag in 2004, 2009 or 2010 had luck gone their way.

During his time, Lyon developed bugger all, left the list worse than when he'd found it, and then took the money and ran.

I guess my question is this- is there anything to suggest that Lyon is capable of turning a middle of the road side into a contender? or that Lyon is capable of identifying and developing young talent? Because if he can't do those two things, Freo are in for a world of hurt.

[Scottish Saint]

There seems to be a rewriting of history going on here - that we were boring and defensive throughout the whole Ross Lyon era. Yes, 2007 and the first half of 2008 were tough and, towards the end, we were too negative but has everybody forgotten how good we were in 2009? How we pinned teams back in defence, how we spent games camped in the FORWARD half of the ground?

In 2009, we were the third highest scorers in the competition. We kicked 100 points plus in more than half the games. Lyon was actually a two trick pony - the forward press, which worked brilliantly in 2009 and was copied by Collingwood in 2010, and the defensive flood which, unfortunately, we saw too much of and which Fremantle are now using.

[hungry for a premiership]

Its funny with all these people who "love going to the footy now" Lyons gone yet memberships are down 5k and Sat arvoI thought the crowd for Hayes milestone game was a tad down tbh.

I "love going to the footy" in 09 - knowing each week we would ultimately win cause we were to good and winning 19 straight.

Dont get me wrong - I think Lyons style is now outdated and the timing of his departure may work in our favour.......but winning is why you go to the footy...not for "nice looking losses"...

EXACTLY. People talk so much rubbish on here.

Let's face it before Ross came on board ppl were already predicting that we were on the way down. Especially after 08. We didn't play brilliantly in EVERY game in 09, but what RL style of play enabled us to do was hang in there even when we were playing crap. We were awful in 07 under Ross. Terrible in fact. Yeah we won a few games in the back half of the season, but very few were convincing. Even in 08 we made a prelim, but only won 13 games for the year and snuck into the top 4 on the back of the bombers playing their seconds against us in the last game. Ross was brought into the club to give us a shot at winning a flag. GT to my mind wasn't capable of that for whatever reason.

My point is it will take the Dockers a little while to learn what RL is on about and for it to become instinctive. Those who claim that our boys were/are sooo much more professional than the Dockers which is why we picked up the game style quicker are delusional. We didn't!

Let's be homest, RL certainly didn't lose the 09 GF for us - the players did with their terrible kicking. All the whining I read on here about Luke Ball not being on the ground in the last 1/4 of that game. I for one had no faith in Luke Ball doing anything when it really counted in the last 1/4. He hadn't all year, you go with your stars. Ross gave us the opportunity to grab the ultimate prize and we fluffed it with poor kicking. Other AFL clubs are still in awe of what Lyon achieved with the saints and many claim he changed the game more than any other coach in the past 30 years with the fwd press - which was copied by the pies and claimed as his own by Mick Malthouse.

He may have walked out on our club but I'm still bemused at all the angst directed at him. We should be thanking him. By far the best saints coach we've had in the last 30 years to date. As Teflon says, he's gone now, and even then I think he did us a favour. He had stayed his time and if he hadn't of walked we'd still have him. I'm convinced now more than ever that this would have been one year too many. He did a terrific job, and now we have another potentially great coach to take over.

RL undoubtedly has a brilliant mind when it comes to football tactics. Best tactical coach the modern game has seen, and it was a joy to watch us initiate a whole new era of the game in '09.

BUT

RL's method has become outdated and it's questionable whether he can adapt

and

RL's method is not fail-safe and is by no means the only way to win a flag. In the '09 GF it was the one achilles heel in the RL game-plan that was exposed, ie., the ability to blow teams out of the water. Yes this was dependant on some critical errors by players but this is always a factor. The premium placed on defense keeps you in touch in games when you're losing, but it also leaves the door ajar for the opposition when they could be put to the sword....

[Con Gorozidis]

Im sure people thought that same in 2007 about us. How did we turn out then? Pretty good

true but i dont think history will repeat itself. we 'turned out' good because our leaders would thrive under any regime they are that good. our boys would succeed with young kim jong un as coach.

lyon is still clinging to his 2005 game plan like drowing man and a piece of driftwood.

i actually feel for the fans. dockers fans are long suffering .

[st_Trav_ofWA]

The question is how long til Pavlova cracks the s**ts it's all good sacrificing your game if you win but when you don't .. Hell he could be kicking bags as full forward at Port or playing finals with the Crows

[defacto]

sympathy for dockers fans. you obviously dont like in wa.

[starsign]

Go along with the point that we should be thanking him for the ride, perhaps regardless of the fact we missed out on the major prize, but am definitely feeling in the here and now we can actually THANK effinfreo for poaching him They have done us an immense favour in my book now, but they can still suffer in their jocks nevertheless!
Win win win situation for us as it now stands
Let's it hope all continues heading in this direction